If you believe these are the end times, why do you not also believe great apostacy has come?

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ScottA

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If you believe that Jesus is soon to come again, why do you do the same as the Pharisees who looked to the scriptures and thought they had it all figured out?

History repeats itself--but this time it's the church who is in the hot seat.​

I could make a case for what is wrong with what is now commonly believed and expected against the warnings of Jesus, Peter, and Paul, and have. But the better case is written of what occurred at Jesus's first coming. Which some of you defend and campaign for here daily with the broken record of the scriptures and what is commonly believed having been taught following the false teachers and the spirit of anti-Christ that had already begun 2,000 years ago. Many of you sight the history in support of their folly to create your own.

And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.

Should you not rather be expecting a rationale to be forthcoming that would explain what is written in the correct way as opposed to what has been wrongly believed?

Did you just want to remain under the strong delusion of the foretold lie, and not want to be lead unto all truth as promised by Christ? Do you just want to die before knowing the truth?
 

Randy Kluth

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What are you trying to say Scott? I agree that most seem immune to correction. However, in my case I've changed views many times through the years, and have been corrected by others, and I'm grateful for that. However, I'm older now, and can't just keep changing indefinitely. At some point I have to "get it," you would think?

But I remain open always to the Lord, because I know I haven't arrived y et. Still, I don't know what your question is. You just seem to be complaining?

I don't believe the apostacy has come yet because Paul indicated that it must come before Jesus returns and before his Kingdom is established on earth. That doesn't mean it has to have happened throughout the entire NT age! On the contrary, Paul cites Dan 7, where the Man of Sin arrives at a particular time in history, just before the establishment of the Kingdom of the Son of Man.
 

ScottA

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What are you trying to say Scott? I agree that most seem immune to correction. However, in my case I've changed views many times through the years, and have been corrected by others, and I'm grateful for that. However, I'm older now, and can't just keep changing indefinitely. At some point I have to "get it," you would think?

But I remain open always to the Lord, because I know I haven't arrived y et. Still, I don't know what your question is. You just seem to be complaining?

I don't believe the apostacy has come yet because Paul indicated that it must come before Jesus returns and before his Kingdom is established on earth. That doesn't mean it has to have happened throughout the entire NT age! On the contrary, Paul cites Dan 7, where the Man of Sin arrives at a particular time in history, just before the establishment of the Kingdom of the Son of Man.
Yes, complaining, but not just complaining.

Warning.

The biblical and historical precedence is that the best minds knowing all the scriptures failed to see what was coming regarding Christ's first coming. That it was foretold that the spirit of anti-Christ was already at work, Jesus warned of the evil servant who would claim his master delays his coming, then Peter foretold of false teachers entering into the church teaching destructive doctrine, and Paul told of the believing of that same lie and the strong delusion that would ensue. But most think they can build upon that foundation believing the foretold lie as if none of it was actually taking place as it is written. Talk about delusion--they don't even believe it!

As for the apostacy coming "that it must come before Jesus returns and before his Kingdom is established on earth." By what is foretold of Christ's coming "not when you expect"--there should be no question that He is not "delaying his coming" as most believe against the warning of the "evil servant." Which only leaves just what He said (and I have advocated under great criticism), that what most have put off to the future actually did "shorty take place", just as He said. And being wrong in the first about "when", does it not also stand to reason that they are also wrong in the "how"--that He should according to the greater meaning of all that is written, that He should rather come in the full glory of the Father--whom is spirit? That He has in fact been standing at the door knocking and coming (spiritually) in to those who open the door to Him, and reigning since all power and authority in heaven and earth were given over to Him, all this time? Nonetheless, the flesh favors the flesh and is against the spirit. Predictably.

And here we are.
 
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Keraz

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A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs, since Stephen was killed, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!
 
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ScottA

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A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs, since Stephen was killed, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!
That is closer than most would state it.

I do know that you have somewhat against the rapture "to heaven"--which is not wrong, but should not always be the focus, as there are other things to consider.

Those other things are the timing and a proper heavenly understanding of the transition between world events and heavenly. It is that transition that defines the rapture--which if it were seen would resemble the warp speed of science fiction. But as what is spirit is not seen, neither is it believed. And for this same reason of not seeing what is spiritual, many put off all that God has done hoping to see what they were told could not be seen in the flesh.

As for the timing--time is of the world, created, and passing away, and has very little to do with the heavenly reality of what is in Christ having come into His glory. All that is with God does not "come to pass" as it is written of those same events in the world, but eternally, rather--simply is--always and forever. As such, Jesus came and stood within that point of transition--and He knocks. And what do the scriptures say--what did Jesus say?

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."​
Which is to say, He stands and knocks from that "way", that transition point--and all of history, before and after come through Him in that place, just as it is written of all who "were" crucified with Him. Which is not to say that it has all taken place already in the world, but rather, already in God, even "before the foundation of the world."
But as it stands, most align with the evil servant who claims, "My master is delaying his coming."
 
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Truth7t7

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If you believe that Jesus is soon to come again, why do you do the same as the Pharisees who looked to the scriptures and thought they had it all figured out?

History repeats itself--but this time it's the church who is in the hot seat.​

I could make a case for what is wrong with what is now commonly believed and expected against the warnings of Jesus, Peter, and Paul, and have. But the better case is written of what occurred at Jesus's first coming. Which some of you defend and campaign for here daily with the broken record of the scriptures and what is commonly believed having been taught following the false teachers and the spirit of anti-Christ that had already begun 2,000 years ago. Many of you sight the history in support of their folly to create your own.

And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.

Should you not rather be expecting a rationale to be forthcoming that would explain what is written in the correct way as opposed to what has been wrongly believed?

Did you just want to remain under the strong delusion of the foretold lie, and not want to be lead unto all truth as promised by Christ? Do you just want to die before knowing the truth?
Scott your theology is "mystical gobble goop" found no place in scripture, and that statement is being nice

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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The Churches have failed, they have been infiltrated like we read in the Bible about how the Jews were infiltrated and led astray, unawares to them all ? By who ? well Jesus pointed such all out.
Only the truly born again in Christ Jesus can see the truth, for the rest are blinded by as Jesus said are of this world, that is full of Deceptions and Delusions.
One must be truly born again to come into the Kingdom of God !
You must come out from them !

Sadly the Churches are clearly "Them" of this world ! and they abide in this world as a business first and foremost ! They look to the Governments for handouts to keep them afloat ? They do not preach Christ Jesus ! they peddle Religion ! such is only on par with the likes of the Jews and Islam in fact ! Religion does not Save, only Christ Jesus Saves in fact.

Nowadays most people claim that all religions are the same thing ? well they are correct but the difference is Christ Jesus and that's the big difference in fact, why ? well because one must abide in him as we are his body and as we see in the Vine this is the wellspring that we are coming from ? But religion never served Christ Jesus ? or can it or not ? well History proves all of the bastards within the Churches even Priest who can be the worst offenders. Why do such as they molest Children ? well because they are only religious, Carnal religious.
The Devil himself is religious in fact ! We see in the Bible where the Devil is talking to Jesus and what the Devil says is interesting to understand just who he is in fact, well he wants us to worship him, for he is of this world ! Now Jesus points out God to old mate the Devil who is to only be Served. so old mate the Devil knows this but he has something to offer you as he did Jesus ? Now Jesus said be gone ! and that's the key, he is only a tempter ! he is not God !
Christ Jesus is our Lord and Saviour of our Soul !
If your Soul is not Saved, one is on the path that leads to Hell in fact. because ones Soul is lost to the temptations of this world. you are doing the wrong thing by others in fact and are not lifting them up in fact you are dragging them down !

Go light your candle, for this is the fire with in you that abides in Christ Jesus.
If you abide in him he will in you. He will give you strength that we need to overcome the deceptions and delusions of this world.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Yes, complaining, but not just complaining.

Warning.

The biblical and historical precedence is that the best minds knowing all the scriptures failed to see what was coming regarding Christ's first coming.
I don't agree with what you're implying, that serious intellects among Christians cannot fathom or properly interpret biblical prophecy. First, the minds of those religious people in Jesus' time were part of a generation that had fallen away, apostacized, and no longer listened to true revelation. They had turned away from true calls to repentance, and had positioned their own form of religion as superior to spiritual truth. They were, in other words, not out for God but out for themselves. And they used their religion to hold onto that power and authority.

They were therefore not in the least representative of Christianity in all times and in all places. Like Israel, Christianity in various nations have come and gone, have risen and fallen, have had great revivals and have turned away to compromise and apostasy. How dare you accuse true Christians of being mindless!

Even in Jesus' time, there were Simeon and Anna, who perfectly well knew who Jesus was and what he had come to do. John the Baptist certainly knew. And the disciples of Jesus became the great apostles of the NT era. So much for Christian minds not fathoming truth, which of course you mean you exclude your own mind?


That it was foretold that the spirit of anti-Christ was already at work, Jesus warned of the evil servant who would claim his master delays his coming, then Peter foretold of false teachers entering into the church teaching destructive doctrine, and Paul told of the believing of that same lie and the strong delusion that would ensue. But most think they can build upon that foundation believing the foretold lie as if none of it was actually taking place as it is written. Talk about delusion--they don't even believe it!
I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is today saying that the Master is delaying his coming? Certainly there are liberal theologians who might say something like that. But who are you addressing now? This forum? Any Christian but yourself?
As for the apostacy coming "that it must come before Jesus returns and before his Kingdom is established on earth." By what is foretold of Christ's coming "not when you expect"--there should be no question that He is not "delaying his coming" as most believe against the warning of the "evil servant." Which only leaves just what He said (and I have advocated under great criticism), that what most have put off to the future actually did "shorty take place", just as He said.
Okay, I see where you're coming from now! You're saying that the idea of Christ's "imminent Return" could not be imminent from the time of the Early Church unless the Apostasy had taken place in the Early Church?

I'm not, however, an Imminency advocate. The idea of Jesus' Soon Return, and the tension of God's wrath hanging over our deeds, are enough to make anybody squirm. That judgment is coming is certain, and whether it comes in the next few minutes or hundreds of years from now, our deeds are still facing eternal judgment. Imminency is not the central thing.

That being said, sins can reach critical mass, and that's when the threat of imminent judgment becomes more serious. There will be no time left to get ready, to repent, to put things right. Jesus made that point when he came to Israel. Their sins had reached critical mass, and they had run out of time. Jesus said that within that very generation, Israel would be destroyed.

But that has nothing to do with Jesus' Coming Back at any moment. Nothing in the Scriptures suggests that. That he is Coming relatively soon is clear. That's clear even if it's been thousands of years. It's nearness has more to do with the tension of human behavior facing scrutiny every day, and with the reality that history is heading towards its climax in divine judgment.

We don't need Imminency Doctrine to make this point. We don't need to have the apostasy of Antichrist take place in the early Church to ensure people know Christ could "come at any moment." In fact, the threat of Christ's Return at any moment never changes anybody. It only warns them when it's too late.

But true Christians are given a sense of history, a sense of time. We are to discern prophetic development, whether in our own time or if we live in the final days of this age.

That's why we were given the book of Revelation. It is about the last generation, but its instruction is helpful in all generations, because in all generations there are Antichrists we have to watch out for and endure.

It is quite the opposite of Imminent Expectation. We are to discern where we are in history, even if we don't know the exact day and hour of Christ's Return. God wants us to know these things so that we can discern lies, and pursue realistic goals in evangelism.

We are not children of darkness, but rather, children of the Day so that we know where we are in history. We're not to try to anticipate the future as much as understand where we are right now and know God's will as we live in it.
 
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Keturah

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Those who refuse to see the apostate condition in the church, ( for this is where it is) are choosing to disbelieve the word of God.

If God said it through holy inspired men led by the Spirit, then so shall it be!
 
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Ronald D Milam

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If you believe that Jesus is soon to come again, why do you do the same as the Pharisees who looked to the scriptures and thought they had it all figured out?
Big difference, we have the Holy Spirit (Like the Prophets) they didn't, they were more akin to Popes, or Robert Tilton, or Jim Jones. It was all about politics and show to the Pharisees.

They knew Rome was the Fourth Beast, they were not wrong, you know what they missed? Besides Jesus being the Son of God? They missed the fact that Israel had to first repent as a nation before the 70th week could be ushered in. So, as they put forth Messianic figures in the run up to 70 AD (which is why Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD) they should have known Israel had yet to repent as a Nation.

Just like in those days only a few really understood what time it was. John the Baptist, the old man (Simeon) who saw Jesus as he was promised before he died. Mary and Joseph of course. So, 90-95 percent of Christians have no clue about Eschatology, and the other 5 percent have a pretty good grasp but still believe stuff like the 144,000 is a real number and that they are super preachers, or that the 1290 is in the middle of the week (lol) how is 1290 in the middle of 2520 days? Or that the Seals are actual events, or that Matt. 24:7-14 happens during the 70th week, or some even think that the Rapture is not Pre Trib, however, most of the 5 percent I would not classify as in the know some would even be in the post Trib or Pre Wrath camp. If you cant get the Raptures timing right, from what I have seen you will get a lot of stuff wrong.

I could make a case for what is wrong with what is now commonly believed and expected against the warnings of Jesus, Peter, and Paul, and have. But the better case is written of what occurred at Jesus's first coming. Which some of you defend and campaign for here daily with the broken record of the scriptures and what is commonly believed having been taught following the false teachers and the spirit of anti-Christ that had already begun 2,000 years ago. Many of you sight the history in support of their folly to create your own.
Do you understand what the spirit of the Anti-christ is? Most don't. Christ means Messiah, so he was the one sent of God, the son of God. So, to be anti christ simply means to be anti God, that doesn't register with most people. So, what is the Spirit of God? The Holy Spirit, what is the Spirit of anti God? That which is always against God. So if God is eternal (He is) then the anti God spirit must also be eternal, that anti God spirit is what enticed Satan. God is Love, Joy, Peace, Hope, Meekness but anti God is what? Hate, Sadness, Chaos, Despair and Haughtiness which brought down Satan. He took on a spirit that was already in existence. If God is love, then hate has to exist also. Satan became haughty and high minded.

And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.
I agree, but here is the much bigger problem. Once you hear TRUTH, the Holy Spirit should affirm it, its easy to hear falsehoods and get deceived during life, at times, but if the Holy Spirit lives in us, when we hear a TRUTH that should register immediately, but it doesn't always it seems, which is why I say, if a person can not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, I really do not trust anything they have to say about Eschatology, because to me they are not hearing the Spirit, Satan is able to block a truth from them, and I wonder why that is?

Now, I can listen to them talk about Repentance, being born again, a learn a ton, but just not any of their Eschatology views..
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I’m having serious trouble even understanding the point of most people and most threads right now. I guess that means I should just shut up and stay out of them…
 

Wrangler

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If you believe these are the end times, why do you not also believe great apostacy has come?​


Typical ScottA, frame a thesis in the negative so no one knows what the positive assertion is.

Anyone see a pattern of what follows? @ScottA, do you see the pattern? Do your pride yourself in not being understood?

What are you trying to say Scott?

Scott your theology is "mystical gobble goop" found no place in scripture

I don't agree with what you're implying, that serious intellects among Christians cannot fathom or properly interpret biblical prophecy.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is today saying that the Master is delaying his coming? ... But who are you addressing now? This forum? Any Christian but yourself?

Even when one finally has a clue of what you are talking about, the specifics remain unclear!

Okay, I see where you're coming from now! You're saying that the idea of Christ's "imminent Return" could not be imminent from the time of the Early Church unless the Apostasy had taken place in the Early Church?
I think there is a great apostacy. Just yesterday, I started a thread about how the RCC defrocked a priest because he is Pro-Life.
 
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ScottA

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Scott your theology is "mystical gobble goop" found no place in scripture, and that statement is being nice

Jesus Is The Lord
I have quoted the scriptures you have not reconciled and explained the whole truth, and you deny that I have even quoted them. For this reason you also are denied.
I don't agree with what you're implying, that serious intellects among Christians cannot fathom or properly interpret biblical prophecy. First, the minds of those religious people in Jesus' time were part of a generation that had fallen away, apostacized, and no longer listened to true revelation. They had turned away from true calls to repentance, and had positioned their own form of religion as superior to spiritual truth. They were, in other words, not out for God but out for themselves. And they used their religion to hold onto that power and authority.

They were therefore not in the least representative of Christianity in all times and in all places. Like Israel, Christianity in various nations have come and gone, have risen and fallen, have had great revivals and have turned away to compromise and apostasy. How dare you accuse true Christians of being mindless!

Even in Jesus' time, there were Simeon and Anna, who perfectly well knew who Jesus was and what he had come to do. John the Baptist certainly knew. And the disciples of Jesus became the great apostles of the NT era. So much for Christian minds not fathoming truth, which of course you mean you exclude your own mind?



I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is today saying that the Master is delaying his coming? Certainly there are liberal theologians who might say something like that. But who are you addressing now? This forum? Any Christian but yourself?

Okay, I see where you're coming from now! You're saying that the idea of Christ's "imminent Return" could not be imminent from the time of the Early Church unless the Apostasy had taken place in the Early Church?

I'm not, however, an Imminency advocate. The idea of Jesus' Soon Return, and the tension of God's wrath hanging over our deeds, are enough to make anybody squirm. That judgment is coming is certain, and whether it comes in the next few minutes or hundreds of years from now, our deeds are still facing eternal judgment. Imminency is not the central thing.

That being said, sins can reach critical mass, and that's when the threat of imminent judgment becomes more serious. There will be no time left to get ready, to repent, to put things right. Jesus made that point when he came to Israel. Their sins had reached critical mass, and they had run out of time. Jesus said that within that very generation, Israel would be destroyed.

But that has nothing to do with Jesus' Coming Back at any moment. Nothing in the Scriptures suggests that. That he is Coming relatively soon is clear. That's clear even if it's been thousands of years. It's nearness has more to do with the tension of human behavior facing scrutiny every day, and with the reality that history is heading towards its climax in divine judgment.

We don't need Imminency Doctrine to make this point. We don't need to have the apostasy of Antichrist take place in the early Church to ensure people know Christ could "come at any moment." In fact, the threat of Christ's Return at any moment never changes anybody. It only warns them when it's too late.

But true Christians are given a sense of history, a sense of time. We are to discern prophetic development, whether in our own time or if we live in the final days of this age.

That's why we were given the book of Revelation. It is about the last generation, but its instruction is helpful in all generations, because in all generations there are Antichrists we have to watch out for and endure.

It is quite the opposite of Imminent Expectation. We are to discern where we are in history, even if we don't know the exact day and hour of Christ's Return. God wants us to know these things so that we can discern lies, and pursue realistic goals in evangelism.

We are not children of darkness, but rather, children of the Day so that we know where we are in history. We're not to try to anticipate the future as much as understand where we are right now and know God's will as we live in it.
You just denied about half of all that is written...so, yeah, I see how you would feel that way.
 

Keraz

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And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.
Too true!
But that is because the Lord has locked the believers of false theories into their delusions. Isaiah 29:9-12 ... In the KGV, the word 'amazed', is better translated in todays understanding as: 'confused'.
Isaiah 29:9 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused...... REBible
I don't agree with what you're implying, that serious intellects among Christians cannot fathom or properly interpret biblical prophecy.
Jesus Himself refutes this. I thank You Father, for hiding these things from the wise and learned......Matthew 11:25
Deniel 12:10 ....in the last days, only a few will understand.

This is very evident to me, as a promoter of what the Bible Prophets said, I have had very little traction in the 10+ years of posting on the eschatology forums. The understanding of what God has planned for our future, is far from most people, they grip onto their ideas, theories and outright fables and reject the truths of the Prophetic Word.
However, I realize that God cannot allow a general knowledge of what will happen. What is coming will be the great testing of our faith, 1 Peter 4:12 and it will commence with a sudden, shocking worldwide disaster.
A Day which the Prophets have comprehensively warned us about, but seems to get rejected, dismissed and ignored.

Even the Prophets knew this would be the case, they say that only AFTER that terrible Day, will people finally understand; Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:24, Jeremiah 23:20b
 
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Space_Karen

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And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.


I have zero gripes with that as stubbornness is a more valuable survival trait than intelligence. That stubbornness should be respected and admired to a degree.

Everyone wants to live better and smarter. We want our standard of living to rise.

If there is an issue with lack of progress, it has more to do with value not being widely distributed. Everyone wants to live better and make smarter choices, we simply do not know how. There is no support infrastructure, community or guidance on how we can achieve this.

People not wanting to hear anything other than what they believe is 100% acceptable. If anyone claims they have a better or smarter way of doing things, they're more than welcome to make a compelling case for it.

If they can't make a compelling case, maybe they deserve to be ignored.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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KGV, the word 'amazed', is better translated in todays understanding as: 'confused'.
Isaiah 20:9 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused...... REBible
Okay, so, I’m monumentally confused and now have a headache.
I went to look up Isaiah 20:9 and it’s not there in any of the translations I looked in. All of them only have 6 verses in Isaiah 20. So then I said, oh, REBible…never heard of that translation. So I googled “REBible.” Can’t find the translation anywhere. So I tried “REB translation” and REV is all that came up as revised English Bible and I said, aha, maybe that’s it. So I found a translation but, nope, it also only has 6 verses in Isaiah 20.
I’m going to take an Aleve and lie down. :mad:
 
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Randy Kluth

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I have zero gripes with that as stubbornness is a more valuable survival trait than intelligence. That stubbornness should be respected and admired to a degree.

Everyone wants to live better and smarter. We want our standard of living to rise.

If there is an issue with lack of progress, it has more to do with value not being widely distributed. Everyone wants to live better and make smarter choices, we simply do not know how. There is no support infrastructure, community or guidance on how we can achieve this.

People not wanting to hear anything other than what they believe is 100% acceptable. If anyone claims they have a better or smarter way of doing things, they're more than welcome to make a compelling case for it.

If they can't make a compelling case, maybe they deserve to be ignored.
Well yea. I wouldn't expect anybody to want to hear something they believe is wrong. Someone can be wanting to follow their faith and still be correctable. They can "stubbornly" cling to what they believe is true without becoming obnoxious and resistant to change.

But I can see where Scott is coming from to some degree, because change for many is a major hurdle. Human pride is a huge barrier that many fear to jump over, simply because they don't know what's on the other side. Ridicule for being wishy-washy?

But you bring some great points.
 

Rockerduck

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Just believe Jesus is coming again, don't worry over pre, mid, or post tribulation. Jesus is coming soon for His sheep. Halleluiah, Amen.
 
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