The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[Earburner]

They were not given white robes. You are selling the glorification mentioned by Paul as future and calling it the work of the Cross, as already completed. 75% of the entire church had not even been physically born yet.

The OT redeemed were given physical bodies and allowed to enjoy Paradise physically along with Jesus Christ. Yes, they had to wait, just like we will have to wait after the Second Coming, for the final harvest.

The 144k are a future final harvest when humanity's population was hundreds of times larger than at the time of the Cross.

You are selling the church short and not seeing the future at all.

You deny a physical body, but claim glorification, and that is the total opposite of what Paul taught. Paul taught a physical body was already available upon physical death, 2 Corinthians 5:1, and that bring glorified was in the future. Putting on a robe of white is not a new body. Putting on a robe of white is being glorified. Even John pointed that out in 1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

We are sons of God now, but we will appear as sons of God, that is putting on the robe of white.

The book of Rev. Is not a stand alone prophetic book, for only the far future. It speaks of past, present and future events, which is how God lives and speaks from the realm of His Eternity.

Don't you know that the Holy Spirit of God could NOT BE permanently GIVEN to anyone, until AFTER the SHEDDING of Christ's Blood?

The figurative 144,000 are DEFINITELY of the OC. of Israel, that lived and died in faith of "the Promise to come", who was Jesus. The 144,000 ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God, and are now written in the Book of Life, who is Jesus. Rev. 14:1-5.

Rev. 7:4-8 clearly describes them as they who were of the tribes of Israel, and not Gentiles. These are they who were "under the altar" of the OC. whose names were written in the "book of Remembrance". Malachi 3:16.
As shown in Rev. 6:9-11, God DID NOT forget them.

However, since the death and resurrection of Christ, all Jews MUST NOW come to God through faith in Jesus!! For all that do, they also shall be of the Great Multitude.
Ever since 70AD., Israel as a nation has NO future with God, apart from Jesus.

As I had posted in #259, you also should consider the meaning of Jesus in
John 5
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, AND NOW IS, when the dead [in sin] shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live [be born again of His Spirit].

 

[Lizbeth]

[22] For these be the days of vengeance [punishment], that ALL
THINGS which are written may be fulfilled.
[23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! FOR there shall be GREAT distress [TRIBULATION] in the land
and WRATH upon THIS people**

[24] And they [Israel] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Rom.11:25; Mat 24:14).
**NOTE: the wrath of God is not upon His Born Again saints, being both Jew and Gentile.

Q. How long shall "the days of vengeance (punishment)" be? Luke 21:24.
A. UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom. 11:25; Mat. 24:14.

John 2[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [DESOLATE] THIS temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Now, let's go back to the above: Mat. 24:15 and Mark 13:14, and understand Who the abomination was committed against, by referencing the Seven abominations in Proverbs 6:16-19.

Now, since God made an interjection of a 7th abomination in Prov. 6:16, please find "THE abomination" that is the most abominable towards God, of which is actually "THE abomination that  MAKETH desolate"- KJV Daniel 12:11

Q. So then, according to the 7th abomination in Proverbs 6:16-19, who was it, that committed that abomination, when Jesus was with us in mortal flesh?
A. Mat. 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, [let] His [innocent] blood be on us, and on our children.

Q. What was the 7th abomination, that was committed against God the Father and the Son?
A. The shedding of innocent blood, of His only begotten Son. Proverbs 6:17.

You wouldn't happen to know of anyone else, that was physically born with innocent blood, would you???
I didn't think so!

Now, let's connect all of that with John 2:19 and understand which temple it was, that was going to be the VICTIM, to receive the act of the 7th abomination.
Well of course, it literarally was the mortal body/TEMPLE of the Lord Jesus Christ, having innocent blood.

Was it the Roman named Pilate or Titus, that committed the 7th abomination against God the Father and the Son, or....was it someone else, whereby such an act brought about that which [God] "MAKETH desolate", being that of the vengeance of God?

Q. Since 70AD., who is it that had fallen under the vengeance of God?
(Our clue: "wrath upon this people". Luke 21:23).
Please select the correct answer:
1. The Romans.
2. The Jews.

Through this brief study, you now have come to know, that act by Israel: "THE ABOMINATION [of shedding the innocent blood of Jesus] [is] THAT [of why God] MAKETH DESOLATE", and is now long past, of which shall NEVER be repeated again for THAT REASON, or any other reason. Dan. 12:11.

If one is ever going to understand the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27, they MUST study it through the KJV only, with the teaching by God's Holy Spirit, and NOT by the wisdom of men.
1 Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

Shedding of innocent blood is indeed an abomination to the Lord - including human sacrifice to idols. But look in Revelation and consider.....what ultimately (though I think not exclusively) brought the wrath of God upon Jerusalem/Israel.....was it not the murder of those early martyrs who had been mercilessly persecuted by the Jews back then....whose souls in heaven were crying out for God's vengeance (ie, justice). In due time He answered their cry, in 70 AD.

But I believe all that was prophesied didn't end there. What has been will be again said Solomon, there is nothing new under the sun. God judged the Jews/Israel, but the world (ie, Gentiles) await judgment also. What has been written/spoken was to the Jew FIRST, yes, but THEN to the Gentiles. In the new testament it says "there will be tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first THEN THE GENTILE". All those things written to the Jew first happened unto them first for ensamples and for an admonition and warning to the CHURCH.

Also consider where it says in Isaiah that Israel pays double for her sins (ie, twice)......and how Mystery Babylon in Rev will also pay double (ie, twice). Is Israel going to double down on her sin and error and be judged a second time? She is getting ready to re-build that Temple that God destroyed in His just wrath, and use it unite all religions of the world....including many deceived Gentile Christians...of Rome and her daughters (apostate protestants). Re-building what God took no pleasure in and tore down in His wrath is akin to shaking a fist of defiance in His face...it's rebellion. Babylon is judged and falls twice....."is fallen, is fallen" in both Isaiah and Rev.

The Lord has been gracious to help prepare and strengthen me against what is coming soon. He showed me a very strong cult-like seductive spirit associated with this Temple that many will not be able to resist.....a STRONG delusion....mimicking the Holy Spirit.....if it were possible it would deceive the very elect. He also made me to know not long ago, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that Catholicism being a hybrid mixture is PAGAN.....the spirit that rules the Catholic church is not of God, it is not the Holy Spirit....and just more recently, that Talmudic Judaism which is a horrible mixture of abominable Babylon paganism dating back to the captivity, is also UNEQUIVOCALLY PAGAN. Christians must have nothing to do with this new Temple! We need to understand that IT IS PAGAN, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. But very deceptive, the devil is cunning.....so beware.

Mixture of God with paganism = paganism. No man can serve two masters. The parts that seem to be of God is just there as bait to deceive and draw you to the gross error. Come out of her my people and TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING is echoed in both old and new testaments and referring to Babylon. UNCLEAN IS MIXTURE, IT IS NOT PURE. AKA it is UNEQUIVOCABLY PAGAN. Understand that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has some "good" parts to it....and that is what makes it deceptive to believers....it is just the filthy rags of man's own righteousness - we are not to touch it and eat of it AT ALL.

 

[Timtofly]

The book of Rev. Is not a stand alone prophetic book, for only the far future. It speaks of past, present and future events, which is how God lives and speaks from the realm of His Eternity.

Don't you know that the Holy Spirit of God could NOT BE permanently GIVEN to anyone, until AFTER the SHEDDING of Christ's Blood?

The figurative 144,000 are DEFINITELY of the OC. of Israel, that lived and died in faith of "the Promise to come", who was Jesus. The 144,000 ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God, and are now written in the Book of Life, who is Jesus. Rev. 14:1-5.

Rev. 7:4-8 clearly describes them as they who were of the tribes of Israel, and not Gentiles. These are they who were "under the altar" of the OC. whose names were written in the "book of Remembrance". Malachi 3:16.
As shown in Rev. 6:9-11, God DID NOT forget them.

However, since the death and resurrection of Christ, all Jews MUST NOW come to God through faith in Jesus!! For all that do, they also shall be of the Great Multitude.
Ever since 70AD., Israel as a nation has NO future with God, apart from Jesus.

As I had posted in #259, you also should consider the meaning of Jesus in
John 5
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, AND NOW IS, when the dead [in sin] shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live [be born again of His Spirit].

Revelation is declaring the future, not a history lesson. Prophecy is not the same as history. Even the Gospels were prophetic about the Second Coming. Jesus was not prophesying about His first coming that had already happened.

The birth of Jesus was not a thief in the night appearance where the world was baptized in fire, and all the wicked were destroyed, and the bondage of sin removed from creation.

Revelation 7 is not talking about just the tribe of Judah nor even just the tribe of Benjamin. Paul talked about Israel, and the entire restoration of all the tribes. Why are you focusing on one particular generation, when even Jesus incorporated all the lost tribes of Jacob? 70AD was the death of Israel and Jacob. There was no restoration, so stop conflating the future restoration that God has promised, with the being cut off of all of Israel until a future Second Coming.

The Cross was the first physical resurrection mentioned in Scripture of the entire OT redeemed, not just one or a dozen souls. Jesus did not bring them to earth from heaven in the air. Jesus took them from the earth back to Paradise, because the Cross opened up Paradise physically, not just spiritually as a place for a soul. None of the dead are waiting for a future physical resurrection who are redeemed from the earth.

You are teaching the gospel that Paul warned against, that those alive missed the first resurrection, and would never be resurrected. Paul did not deny the resurrection out of Abraham's bosom that happened at the Cross. In fact he stressed the fact that no person on earth could ever resurrect first. Those already dead would always precede and enter Paradise first.

That is not a pre-mill bias as you can see most pre-mill deny the physical resurrection of the Cross as well. Some pre-mill don't even allow a resurrection into Paradise at all, but even the redeemed have to wait and be judged at the GWT, despite the point the Cross took that judgment away from the redeemed. Only those facing the second death stand as the dead at that event.

John clearly stated those with the first resurrection do not stand at that event.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ."

That was true about those who came out of their graves at the time Jesus physically died. They experienced the first resurrection that moment into a permanent incorruptible physical body. Not just souls walking around naked. The first resurrection can only happen at the first death, so is only physical, not spiritual at all. For the dead waiting in sheol, the first resurrection may not happen at all. If it did they would not be tossed into the LOF. The first resurrection would mean they avoid the second death altogether. That is when what Daniel spoke of will happen. But the NT and God allowed the first physical resurrection to take place the instant Jesus declared it is finished, as now those physically dead could enjoy that first resurrection in a physical body.

This post is taking into consideration the entire NT and not based solely on the book of Revelation. Nor do I have to incorporate evey fact from Revelation and insert it into the first century. I would not do that even with the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. You are limiting God's Word to the writings of Josephus. Then accuse me of limiting the NT to one book, and interpreting the entire NT by the book of Revelation. Interpretation goes both ways. Matthew claims bodies came out of their graves. John in Revelation defines the first resurrection. You do neither.

You deny the physical resurrection of the OT redeemed. You change the definition of the first resurrection, and apply it spiritually to Paul and Jesus' second birth example. Firstborn is not the same term as first resurrection. Birth and resurrection are not even defined the same way. Now the spiritual birth can be applied as a resurrection out of sin, as it is not a physical birth, but then one has to define what it means to be born sin. That would mean two spiritual births. It is already confusing with a first physical birth and a first spiritual birth, now you imply a pre-birth spiritual state and have two spiritual births, one into sin and one out of sin. The first birth places us into both physical and spiritual death aspects. Having life at birth is not the same as having life when spiritually born of the second birth into God's spiritual family.

 

[Earburner]

Revelation is declaring the future, not a history lesson. Prophecy is not the same as history. Even the Gospels were prophetic about the Second Coming. Jesus was not prophesying about His first coming that had already happened.

For US today, roughly 60% of Revelation Is history.

Most Christians are not cognizant of the fact that God speaks words from His Eternity, being that which is of the Past, that which is now in the Present and that which is still the Future, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Therefore, to read Rev. in a chronological manner, is to fabricate erroneous interpretations in understanding.

Though the following article promotes the error for a restoration of this present earth, the author fully understands that not all of the book of Rev. is strictly futuristic from today.

The Book of Revelation Is Not Just about the Future

The symbolism of the book ranges through the entire Old Testament canonical Scriptures and drives us back to the very beginning.

www.crossway.org

Premillenialism has made Rev. 20 to be the great filter whereby every topic of the Bible is to be interpreted through it.
Such extreme error is derived by the wisdom of men, which is not of the Holy Spirit of God, but rather the religious institutions of men, aka "church-ianity". Read and study all of 1 Cor. Ch. 2.

 

[Timtofly]

For US today, roughly 60% of Revelation Is history.

Most Christians are not cognizant of the fact that God speaks words from His Eternity, being that which is of the Past, that which is now in the Present and that which is still the Future, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Therefore, to read Rev. in a chronological manner, is to fabricate erroneous interpretations in understanding.

Though the following article promotes the error for a restoration of this present earth, the author fully understands that not all of the book of Rev. is strictly futuristic from today.

The Book of Revelation Is Not Just about the Future

The symbolism of the book ranges through the entire Old Testament canonical Scriptures and drives us back to the very beginning.

www.crossway.org

Premillenialism has made Rev. 20 to be the great filter whereby every topic of the Bible is to be interpreted through it.
Such extreme error is derived by the wisdom of men, which is not of the Holy Spirit of God, but rather the religious institutions of men, aka "church-ianity". Read and study all of 1 Cor. Ch. 2.

Only the first 3 chapters covering the specific churches have happened.

The judgments in Revelation cannot happen until after the Second Coming.

This has nothing to do with pre-mill thought.

You are claiming preterist thought, which some preterist claim all of Revelation has been fulfilled already, even chapters 21 and 22.

You cannot even point out what in Revelation has been fulfilled without giving away your preterist leanings. Post mill deals with chapter 20 as needing to be completed before the Second Coming. Amil thinks the millennium already happened. Pre-mill do not even have to discuss chapter 20, to discern the other chapters.

Most of today's endless nonsense of both symbols and literal points claim Revelation is just the same event told in up to 7 different ways. Pre-mill don't even address chapter 20, until it is necessary to do so after all the other events have already unfolded. Why is that singling out one chapter? That is literally avoiding that chapter unless forced to deal with other eschatological nonsense, brought up by those who refuse to accept a chronological narrative.

 

[Lizbeth]

Only the first 3 chapters covering the specific churches have happened.

The judgments in Revelation cannot happen until after the Second Coming.

This has nothing to do with pre-mill thought.

You are claiming preterist thought, which some preterist claim all of Revelation has been fulfilled already, even chapters 21 and 22.

You cannot even point out what in Revelation has been fulfilled without giving away your preterist leanings. Post mill deals with chapter 20 as needing to be completed before the Second Coming. Amil thinks the millennium already happened. Pre-mill do not even have to discuss chapter 20, to discern the other chapters.

Most of today's endless nonsense of both symbols and literal points claim Revelation is just the same event told in up to 7 different ways. Pre-mill don't even address chapter 20, until it is necessary to do so after all the other events have already unfolded. Why is that singling out one chapter? That is literally avoiding that chapter unless forced to deal with other eschatological nonsense, brought up by those who refuse to accept a chronological narrative.

We have been trying to interpret Revelation without the lens of all scripture that has come before....and that causes us to end up contradicting what came before. Eg, 2 Peter 3 which says the earth will be burned up at the coming of the Lord...and 1 Cor. 15 which says Christ will deliver up the kingdom back to the Father when He comes. So how will He rule and reign what has been burned up and if He has given the kingdom back to God? And didn't Jesus say to His early followers that the kingdom had already come and was at hand? "If I by the finger of God cast out devils and heal the sick, then the kingdom has come to you."

So I do not believe we are waiting for a future rule and reign, but He is ruling and reigning now. And that doesn't mean quite the same thing as how we (the natural man) thinks of ruling and reigning........but it is speaking of overcoming this world and being more than conquerors and having authority over the devil (god of this world). His kingdom comes not with our careful observation...ie it is not external, visible and earthly......but is within and among His people. The idea of a future visible earthly reign contradicts so many truths of scripture. Religious Jews were and still are looking for a physical earthly kingdom rather than one that is in spirit and comes by faith....and that is what caused them to miss their Messiah when He came the first time.....and I fear will cause many to accept a false Messiah this time coming soon.

"He speaks to us in parables"....and boy there are a lot of cryptic parables (allegories) in the book of Rev. We need to approach with humble caution and wait on the Lord for His illumination. For me it has been coming little by little. Don't read backwards from Rev, rather read forwards up to it, from all that came before in both old and new testaments. It is a kind of reiteration of all that was already written. Eg, the book of Daniel is what is being unsealed in Rev....it's the only book of the bible that had been sealed and it's no coincidence that so much of the allegorical imagery is the same as what was written in Daniel. It is speaking of judgment and that is why the Lamb was the only one worthy to unseal the book, ie, worthy to judge and pour out the judgments. Which did indeed happen "shortly" after Rev was written, in 70 AD, but I believe will happen again according to the same pattern. Bible says "Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, to the Jew first, then the Gentile", but also "double" to the Jews/Israel (ie, it appears that Israel will be judged a second time sadly).

 

[Earburner]

Only the first 3 chapters covering the specific churches have happened.

The judgments in Revelation cannot happen until after the Second Coming.

This has nothing to do with pre-mill thought.

You are claiming preterist thought, which some preterist claim all of Revelation has been fulfilled already, even chapters 21 and 22.

You cannot even point out what in Revelation has been fulfilled without giving away your preterist leanings. Post mill deals with c

Chapter 20 as needing to be completed before the Second Coming. Amil thinks the millennium already happened. Pre-mill do not even have to discuss chapter 20, to discern the other chapters.

Most of today's endless nonsense of both symbols and literal points claim Revelation is just the same event told in up to 7 different ways. Pre-mill don't even address chapter 20, until it is necessary to do so after all the other events have already unfolded. Why is that singling out one chapter? That is literally avoiding that chapter unless forced to deal with other eschatological nonsense, brought up by those who refuse to accept a chronological narrative.

You misunderstand. Amillenialists know by the Holy Spirit's teaching that FOR THE REASON OF God's plan of our Salvation, the figurative 1000 years is still happening, but it will suddenly end in the Day of Jesus' return in all His Immortal Glory, in flaming fire.
2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter ch. 3; 1 Cor. ch 2.

Timtofly,
Please listen to what "Lizbeth" recently said. As with I, she is revealing that which she has learned being that which is DIRECTLY FROM the Holy Spirit of God.

Both of us are on the same page of understanding, solely by the literal teaching of God, revealing His Truth through the scriptures.
And to that I say Amen!!

Please see below, and do give heed:

We have been trying to interpret Revelation without the lens of all scripture that has come before....and that causes us to end up contradicting what came before. Eg, 2 Peter 3 which says the earth will be burned up at the coming of the Lord...and 1 Cor. 15 which says Christ will deliver up the kingdom back to the Father when He comes. So how will He rule and reign what has been burned up and if He has given the kingdom back to God? And didn't Jesus say to His early followers that the kingdom had already come and was at hand? "If I by the finger of God cast out devils and heal the sick, then the kingdom has come to you."

So I do not believe we are waiting for a future rule and reign, but He is ruling and reigning now. And that doesn't mean quite the same thing as how we (the natural man) thinks of ruling and reigning........but it is speaking of overcoming this world and being more than conquerors and having authority over the devil (god of this world). His kingdom comes not with our careful observation...ie it is not external, visible and earthly......but is within and among His people. The idea of a future visible earthly reign contradicts so many truths of scripture. Religious Jews were and still are looking for a physical earthly kingdom rather than one that is in spirit and comes by faith....and that is what caused them to miss their Messiah when He came the first time.....and I fear will cause many to accept a false Messiah this time coming soon.

"He speaks to us in parables"....and boy there are a lot of cryptic parables (allegories) in the book of Rev. We need to approach with humble caution and wait on the Lord for His illumination. For me it has been coming little by little. Don't read backwards from Rev, rather read forwards up to it, from all that came before in both old and new testaments. It is a kind of reiteration of all that was already written. Eg, the book of Daniel is what is being unsealed in Rev....it's the only book of the bible that had been sealed and it's no coincidence that so much of the allegorical imagery is the same as what was written in Daniel. It is speaking of judgment and that is why the Lamb was the only one worthy to unseal the book, ie, worthy to judge and pour out the judgments. Which did indeed happen "shortly" after Rev was written, in 70 AD, but I believe will happen again according to the same pattern. Bible says "Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, to the Jew first, then the Gentile", but also "double" to the Jews/Israel (ie, it appears that Israel will be judged a second time sadly).

Amen Lizbeth! Well said!!
Earburner

 

[ewq1938]

You misunderstand. Amillenialists know by the Holy Spirit's teaching that FOR THE REASON OF God's plan of our Salvation, the figurative 1000 years is still happening

It's better described as the "imagined figurative 1000 years" because it comes from imagination not scripture. It's a counterfeit of the real thousand years written by John in Revelation. The real one does not start until Christian martyrs are judged and resurrected and reign over the nations with Christ according to Rev 20.

 

[Earburner]

It's better described as the "imagined figurative 1000 years" because it comes from imagination not scripture. It's a counterfeit of the real thousand years written by John in Revelation. The real one does not start until Christian martyrs are judged and resurrected and reign over the nations with Christ according to Rev 20.

You really don't understand the reason WHY God has allowed  this long and lengthy "time" of His Age of Grace, through Jesus, for these past 2024 years. God Himself has put NO time limit to His figurative 1000 years. It really is an unknown length of time for our salvation, being revealed only as a figure of speech.
The only ISSUE that will bring God to his decision to END His Age of Grace, is WHEN NO MORE people come to Him in repentance, through faith in Jesus!!

Don't you yet know that God would have ended everything in "a consuming fire", IF IT WERE NOT for Jesus offering Himself as being the sacrificial Lamb OF God for us, as well as for God the Father Himself??
Therefore John 3:16 came into play.
Heb. 9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the END of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Jesus IS THE Perfect Mediator between us and God!! Without Jesus' first coming in mortal flesh, there wasn't ANYTHING in all Eternity, that would have stopped God from destroying us and everything else along with it.

However, it is possible that by the Holy Spirit within you, you CAN LEARN of it in 2 Peter 3:9 and 15.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [for Salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[15] And [we should] account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

 

[ewq1938]

You really don't understand the reason WHY God has allowed  this long and lengthy "time" of His Age of Grace, through Jesus, for these past 2024 years. God Himself has put NO time limit to His figurative 1000 years.

We are currently in the time BEFORE the thousand years. The thousand year period is EXACTLY a thousand years which is what the Greek word used actually means.

 

[Earburner]

We are currently in the time BEFORE the thousand years. The thousand year period is EXACTLY a thousand years which is what the Greek word used actually means.

You haven't studied 1 Cor. ch. 2 ...yet??

You are discerning God's word by YOUR natural mind, which ALWAYS accepts the wisdom of men. All of such ARE "LITERISTS", as were the Pharisees.

1 Cor. 2
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but [by] the Spirit of God.
[12] Now WE [who are born again] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might KNOW the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but [that] which the Holy Ghost TEACHETH; comparing SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL.

[14] But the natural man receiveth NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned.
[15] But he that IS SPIRITUAL judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But WE [who are born again] HAVE the MIND [Spirit] of Christ [literally].

 

[Timtofly]

You misunderstand. Amillenialists know by the Holy Spirit's teaching that FOR THE REASON OF God's plan of our Salvation, the figurative 1000 years is still happening, but it will suddenly end in the Day of Jesus' return in all His Immortal Glory, in flaming fire.
2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter ch. 3; 1 Cor. ch 2.

Timtofly,
Please listen to what "Lizbeth" recently said. As with I, she is revealing that which she has learned being that which is DIRECTLY FROM the Holy Spirit of God.

Both of us are on the same page of understanding, solely by the literal teaching of God, revealing His Truth through the scriptures.
And to that I say Amen!!

Please see below, and do give heed:


Amen Lizbeth! Well said!!
Earburner

There is not one iota of Scripture that states the Day of the Lord immediately stops at the Second Coming.

The post was not even about the future, but the point you keep claiming the entire book of Revelation has pretty much already happened in the first century.

 

[Timtofly]

We have been trying to interpret Revelation without the lens of all scripture that has come before....and that causes us to end up contradicting what came before. Eg, 2 Peter 3 which says the earth will be burned up at the coming of the Lord...and 1 Cor. 15 which says Christ will deliver up the kingdom back to the Father when He comes. So how will He rule and reign what has been burned up and if He has given the kingdom back to God? And didn't Jesus say to His early followers that the kingdom had already come and was at hand? "If I by the finger of God cast out devils and heal the sick, then the kingdom has come to you."

So I do not believe we are waiting for a future rule and reign, but He is ruling and reigning now. And that doesn't mean quite the same thing as how we (the natural man) thinks of ruling and reigning........but it is speaking of overcoming this world and being more than conquerors and having authority over the devil (god of this world). His kingdom comes not with our careful observation...ie it is not external, visible and earthly......but is within and among His people. The idea of a future visible earthly reign contradicts so many truths of scripture. Religious Jews were and still are looking for a physical earthly kingdom rather than one that is in spirit and comes by faith....and that is what caused them to miss their Messiah when He came the first time.....and I fear will cause many to accept a false Messiah this time coming soon.

"He speaks to us in parables"....and boy there are a lot of cryptic parables (allegories) in the book of Rev. We need to approach with humble caution and wait on the Lord for His illumination. For me it has been coming little by little. Don't read backwards from Rev, rather read forwards up to it, from all that came before in both old and new testaments. It is a kind of reiteration of all that was already written. Eg, the book of Daniel is what is being unsealed in Rev....it's the only book of the bible that had been sealed and it's no coincidence that so much of the allegorical imagery is the same as what was written in Daniel. It is speaking of judgment and that is why the Lamb was the only one worthy to unseal the book, ie, worthy to judge and pour out the judgments. Which did indeed happen "shortly" after Rev was written, in 70 AD, but I believe will happen again according to the same pattern. Bible says "Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, to the Jew first, then the Gentile", but also "double" to the Jews/Israel (ie, it appears that Israel will be judged a second time sadly).

I do not believe you are correct in any of your biblical interpretation. But the post you replied to was specific to the point, that Revelation did not happen in the first century, as soon as all the apostles were martyred.

 

[ewq1938]

You haven't studied 1 Cor. ch. 2 ...yet??

Red herring fallacy that seeks to change the subject. The thousand years is literal.

1. There are no NT examples of chilioi meaning more or less than exactly a thousand.
2. It (chilioi) still means exactly a thousand when paired with other numbers.
3. It's uses in the bible (chilioi) are of exactly a thousand every single time it appears.
4. When an unknown amount is used, the word used is G5505 chilias (not chilioi G5507), and it is used twice in a row.
5. G5507 chilioi is never used in this double fashion.
6. The double appearance of G5505 chilias is not found in Revelation 20.

 

[Earburner]

There is not one iota of Scripture that states the Day of the Lord immediately stops at the Second Coming.

The post was not even about the future, but the point you keep claiming the entire book of Revelation has pretty much already happened in the first century.

You don't understand me or the scriptures that I post, so therefore you jump to false conclusions, just to defend the Premil doctrine of men, that blinds you with darkness.

I said that the book of Rev. is God, who in 96AD, is speaking in the Past, the Present, and the Future, all at the same time.
(Edit): Isaiah 55:8-9.

We are now in the year of 2024AD. Can you discern from those singular and separate individual prophesies, of that which is past, what is present, and what is still future?
The human mind cannot, but "the mind of Christ" can, and He does. 1 Cor. Ch. 2

 

[Earburner]

Red herring fallacy that seeks to change the subject. The thousand years is literal.

1. There are no NT examples of chilioi meaning more or less than exactly a thousand.
2. It (chilioi) still means exactly a thousand when paired with other numbers.
3. It's uses in the bible (chilioi) are of exactly a thousand every single time it appears.
4. When an unknown amount is used, the word used is G5505 chilias (not chilioi G5507), and it is used twice in a row.
5. G5507 chilioi is never used in this double fashion.
6. The double appearance of G5505 chilias is not found in Revelation 20.

2 Peter 3
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day IS with the Lord AS a thousand years, and a thousand years [IS with the Lord] AS one day.

While you are spending all day long, haggling over the Greek meaning of "a thousand" years, God has given the formula of HIS understanding, of what HE wants us to know about time IN HIS Eternity:....there are NO measurements of time in Eternity.
See 2 Peter 3:9, 15.

Therefore, God's Age of Grace, through faith in Jesus (John 3:16), has no time limit on how long it will continue. So then, how is THIS PRESENT TIME/Age being measured by God, as to when "His Grace" towards us shall end? His measuring stick is NOT "time", but rather "Repentance".

I am positive that you can find numerous OT and NT biblical examples of how God reacted, in regards to those in UNrepentance towards God! Noah and Lot would be good choices! Luke 17.

So then, when anyone of us read about "a thousand years" in Rev., we can surely KNOW that it is talking about God's Age of Grace, which to Him and ALL generations, ever since Jesus Christ, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT for all concerned!!

 

[ewq1938]

2 Peter 3
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day IS with the Lord AS a thousand years, and a thousand years [IS with the Lord] AS one day.

This is a literal amount of a thousand years being compared to a literal day. Nothing here is an unlimited amount of time.

 

[Earburner]

The Cross was the first physical resurrection mentioned in Scripture of the entire OT redeemed, not just one or a dozen souls. Jesus did not bring them to earth from heaven in the air. Jesus took them from the earth back to Paradise, because the Cross opened up Paradise physically, not just spiritually as a place for a soul. None of the dead are waiting for a future physical resurrection who are redeemed from the earth.

OK, so now, let's move forward from that factual account of Mat. 27
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the [OC] saints which slept** arose, [the figurative 144,000]
[53] And [they of Israel] came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
[54] Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
**Note: Malachi 3:16, aka figuratively being "Abraham's bosom".

Whoever it is, that was Firstborn from the DEAD, IS THE First Resurrection!!
Anyone that comes "AFTER" Him who is the First resurrection, IS SECOND!!

Q. CAN YOU NOW guess (or know), Who IT IS that is the ONLY FIRST RESURRECTION??
> clue: Col. 3:1
> please provide YOUR answer.

You are teaching the gospel that Paul warned against, that those alive missed the first resurrection, and would never be resurrected. Paul did not deny the resurrection out of Abraham's bosom that happened at the Cross. In fact he stressed the fact that no person on earth could ever resurrect first. Those already dead would always precede and enter Paradise first.

I am teaching no such thing!
I am teaching that whosoever believes in Jesus, and is "born again" of God's Holy Spirit, eversince Pentecost, is NOW A PARTAKER of His DIVINE NATURE. (2 Peter 1:4).
In and by the Holy Spirit within them, THEY ARE OF THE FIRST resurrection, WHO IS JESUS.
So, quite literally, everyone who is "born again" IS NOW....
[6] Blessed and holy is he that [now is born again] HATH PART in the first resurrection [who is Jesus]:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years [DURING God's present Age of His Grace through Jesus].

The only thing that born again Christians [both Jew and Gentile alike] are waiting for, whether they be asleep in Jesus, or alive on the Earth in Jesus, is to be made into the LIKENESS of Christ's IMMORTALITY, upon HIS APEARANCE from heaven.

Prior to that moment, NO ONE is IMMORTAL, EXCEPT JESUS!!
(Edit):
1 Tim. 6[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[16] Who ONLY HATH immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Even the figurative 144,000 of Israel, who were resurrected immediately AFTER His resurrection, are asleep in paradise with Jesus, waiting also to be made Immortal. Rev. 6:9-11; Luke 23:42-43.

 

[amigo de christo]

Shedding of innocent blood is indeed an abomination to the Lord - including human sacrifice to idols. But look in Revelation and consider.....what ultimately (though I think not exclusively) brought the wrath of God upon Jerusalem/Israel.....was it not the murder of those early martyrs who had been mercilessly persecuted by the Jews back then....whose souls in heaven were crying out for God's vengeance (ie, justice). In due time He answered their cry, in 70 AD.

But I believe all that was prophesied didn't end there. What has been will be again said Solomon, there is nothing new under the sun. God judged the Jews/Israel, but the world (ie, Gentiles) await judgment also. What has been written/spoken was to the Jew FIRST, yes, but THEN to the Gentiles. In the new testament it says "there will be tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first THEN THE GENTILE". All those things written to the Jew first happened unto them first for ensamples and for an admonition and warning to the CHURCH.

Also consider where it says in Isaiah that Israel pays double for her sins (ie, twice)......and how Mystery Babylon in Rev will also pay double (ie, twice). Is Israel going to double down on her sin and error and be judged a second time? She is getting ready to re-build that Temple that God destroyed in His just wrath, and use it unite all religions of the world....including many deceived Gentile Christians...of Rome and her daughters (apostate protestants). Re-building what God took no pleasure in and tore down in His wrath is akin to shaking a fist of defiance in His face...it's rebellion. Babylon is judged and falls twice....."is fallen, is fallen" in both Isaiah and Rev.

The Lord has been gracious to help prepare and strengthen me against what is coming soon. He showed me a very strong cult-like seductive spirit associated with this Temple that many will not be able to resist.....a STRONG delusion....mimicking the Holy Spirit.....if it were possible it would deceive the very elect. He also made me to know not long ago, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that Catholicism being a hybrid mixture is PAGAN.....the spirit that rules the Catholic church is not of God, it is not the Holy Spirit....and just more recently, that Talmudic Judaism which is a horrible mixture of abominable Babylon paganism dating back to the captivity, is also UNEQUIVOCALLY PAGAN. Christians must have nothing to do with this new Temple! We need to understand that IT IS PAGAN, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. But very deceptive, the devil is cunning.....so beware.

Mixture of God with paganism = paganism. No man can serve two masters. The parts that seem to be of God is just there as bait to deceive and draw you to the gross error. Come out of her my people and TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING is echoed in both old and new testaments and referring to Babylon. UNCLEAN IS MIXTURE, IT IS NOT PURE. AKA it is UNEQUIVOCABLY PAGAN. Understand that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has some "good" parts to it....and that is what makes it deceptive to believers....it is just the filthy rags of man's own righteousness - we are not to touch it and eat of it AT ALL.

The harlot sleeps not .
She has many who do her work , her dark work of the mystery of inquity .
She has prophesied unto the world and its religoins
and she cries come ye one and come ye all under my shade of diverse love
for my love judges not but embraces your desires
Be as thou wilt , come as thou wilt , enter into my covenant of inclusivity and her love
a love that judges not and preaches not the dire need to BELIEVE
but rather just follow thine heart and love as does the world .
And as a chameleon she and her co workers have blended themselves within
all realms to appear as they are to lead them into her web to gather all as ONE
and to come against CHRIST and the saints .
To those who refuse to conform , SHE CRIES , these haters have no love
they judge only , they know not God or love .
And she is centering the religoins and her place shall be upon earthly jersualem
in a temple that unifies all under a lie .
But the dead know not that this is not THE LOVE OF GOD
it is a love of the world to tie all together under a common ground love that all who are of the world share ............
THIS WONT BODE WELL ON THE DAY of the LORD . That tower is COMING DOWN .

 

[amigo de christo]

Shedding of innocent blood is indeed an abomination to the Lord - including human sacrifice to idols. But look in Revelation and consider.....what ultimately (though I think not exclusively) brought the wrath of God upon Jerusalem/Israel.....was it not the murder of those early martyrs who had been mercilessly persecuted by the Jews back then....whose souls in heaven were crying out for God's vengeance (ie, justice). In due time He answered their cry, in 70 AD.

But I believe all that was prophesied didn't end there. What has been will be again said Solomon, there is nothing new under the sun. God judged the Jews/Israel, but the world (ie, Gentiles) await judgment also. What has been written/spoken was to the Jew FIRST, yes, but THEN to the Gentiles. In the new testament it says "there will be tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first THEN THE GENTILE". All those things written to the Jew first happened unto them first for ensamples and for an admonition and warning to the CHURCH.

Also consider where it says in Isaiah that Israel pays double for her sins (ie, twice)......and how Mystery Babylon in Rev will also pay double (ie, twice). Is Israel going to double down on her sin and error and be judged a second time? She is getting ready to re-build that Temple that God destroyed in His just wrath, and use it unite all religions of the world....including many deceived Gentile Christians...of Rome and her daughters (apostate protestants). Re-building what God took no pleasure in and tore down in His wrath is akin to shaking a fist of defiance in His face...it's rebellion. Babylon is judged and falls twice....."is fallen, is fallen" in both Isaiah and Rev.

The Lord has been gracious to help prepare and strengthen me against what is coming soon. He showed me a very strong cult-like seductive spirit associated with this Temple that many will not be able to resist.....a STRONG delusion....mimicking the Holy Spirit.....if it were possible it would deceive the very elect. He also made me to know not long ago, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that Catholicism being a hybrid mixture is PAGAN.....the spirit that rules the Catholic church is not of God, it is not the Holy Spirit....and just more recently, that Talmudic Judaism which is a horrible mixture of abominable Babylon paganism dating back to the captivity, is also UNEQUIVOCALLY PAGAN. Christians must have nothing to do with this new Temple! We need to understand that IT IS PAGAN, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. But very deceptive, the devil is cunning.....so beware.

Mixture of God with paganism = paganism. No man can serve two masters. The parts that seem to be of God is just there as bait to deceive and draw you to the gross error. Come out of her my people and TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING is echoed in both old and new testaments and referring to Babylon. UNCLEAN IS MIXTURE, IT IS NOT PURE. AKA it is UNEQUIVOCABLY PAGAN. Understand that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil has some "good" parts to it....and that is what makes it deceptive to believers....it is just the filthy rags of man's own righteousness - we are not to touch it and eat of it AT ALL.

The lake of fire awaits all who made and loved a lie .
and i see a love , a LIE , that many sure seem to be loving .
a lie that cannot save , but gives out the idea they are saved .
a lie that makes the way to GOD very , very broad
and even maketh GOD , CHRIST into a minstir of sins .
And yet many seem to love that lie and embrace it as though it be the very salvation of GOD .
This aint gonna bode well at all for any and all who done such a thing .
And the so called love god they followed , WONT be able to deliver them from the WRATH OF THE TRUE GOD and OF HIS CHRIST .
The lambs shall cling to CHRIST , preach HIS GOSPEL , HIS teachings . anything that contradicts that is a lie and it wont save one soul .