Idolatry and the like in Catholicism

[Illuminator]

Luke 1:28 (“Full of Grace”) and the Immaculate Conception | Dave Armstrong (patheos.com)

 

[DuckieLady]

For the most part I agree with you.
There is certainly not a "focus on the family" in the New Testament.
The focus was on salvation...the urgency preempted all other concerns because they believed Christ's return was imminent.

Right and meaning right around the corner it would be for them, right? But they didn't realize how big the world was, how long it would take to go to all four corners and give mankind a chance to hear the gospel.

The technology we have today for communication and to give man the gift of flight, is what was mentioned in the book of Daniel. The knowledge shall increase bit.

Preaching to all sides at a rapid time, for their time, was not all that doable. We have only REALLY been able to speed this up in the last 100 years, really, closer to 50 with computers.

So only up to now it is possible. And NOW is the time we need to go back and remember what was said.

 

[amigo de christo]

To the trenches my friends to defend the true faith . ROME IS fast invading this post .

 

[amigo de christo]

Rome preaches its doctrines . As for the lambs we will simply preach Christ . The world and the wordly will do as they do
till the end of time , we must stand on every word of Christ and contend for the true faith to the end .
I am so sorry men have completely made confusing and destroyed what should have been such a simple pure lovely walk in Christ .
Doctrines of power hungry men over the years have made blind the eyes that should have seen .
They claim to have entered into the Kingdom , yet have not , nor do they allow but rather hinder those who enter their convenant
from doing so . MANY will be held accountable to CHRIST for every word they did speak against HIS doctrine , ON the day of judgement .
As for me and the lambs , WE STICKING TO THE BIBLCAL JESUS . ALL HOPE IS IN HIM INDEED .

 

[DuckieLady]

Rome preaches its doctrines . As for the lambs we will simply preach Christ . The world and the wordly will do as they do
till the end of time , we must stand on every word of Christ and contend for the true faith to the end .
I am so sorry men have completely made confusing and destroyed what should have been such a simple pure lovely walk in Christ .
Doctrines of power hungry men over the years have made blind the eyes that should have seen .
They claim to have entered into the Kingdom , yet have not , nor do they allow but rather hinder those who enter their convenant
from doing so . MANY will be held accountable to CHRIST for every word they did speak against HIS doctrine , ON the day of judgement .
As for me and the lambs , WE STICKING TO THE BIBLCAL JESUS . ALL HOPE IS IN HIM INDEED .

Yes, and I will not shut up!

Praise God
Nobody shut up about the truth

Thats the thing that sets you free
Now guess who the truth is

 

[Grailhunter]

Er thing JESUS said we do and we embrace . But the hate he spoke of its not as the world hates . It simply means PUT HIM FIRST BEFORE ALL .
Cause did JESUS not also say , LOVE THOSE who even hate you . Love even your enemies . yeah . We have to learn Christ
so as we can learn how to rightly understand what HE said . Embrace every word HE ever said . And the HOLY GHOST
will give a lamb the right understanding . But heed not the mother of darkness nor the father of darkness .
Men have destroyed such a simple walk . And certain institutions have tried to , kill the SON so they can HOLD the KEYS
and cliam the inheritance . SOUND famliar . ROME claims to hold the KEYS , when in truth it preaches another JESUS altogether .
JESUS HOLDS THE KEYS , NOT ROME .

That is all good stuff for sure. Eyes on Christ...right?
Christian history like all history moved forward like any history....like a staggering drunken sailor.
Many find history boring and some find it distasteful.
The Romans were killing any Christians they could find and Gnosticism was gaining in popularity.
What would have happened if Constantine would not have seen his vision and befriended the Christians?
What would have happened? There will be no agreement on that, because for the most part it all has to be speculation.
One thing for sure is that there was no prophecy that said that after 1500 years, the true meaning of the Bible would come out.

 

[amigo de christo]

Right and meaning right around the corner it would be for them, right? But they didn't realize how big the world was, how long it would take to go to all four corners and give mankind a chance to hear the gospel.

The technology we have today for communication and to give man the gift of flight, is what was mentioned in the book of Daniel. The knowledge shall increase bit.

Preaching to all sides at a rapid time, for their time, was not all that doable. We have only REALLY been able to speed this up in the last 100 years, really, closer to 50 with computers.

So only up to now it is possible. And NOW is the time we need to go back and remember what was said.

What also did JESUS warn one church in revelation .
HE said if ye will not watch i shall come on you as a thief . One of the biggest end time signs
was that it would be like the days of noah and lott . They were simply living life and then BAM they never saw it coming .
If we notice , nowhere did JESUS ever give the hint it would be many years before HE came .
But in the last generation most would be thinking , OH we got many years left . THIS is a huge sign .
HIS COMING DOES DRAW NIGH sister . it does . And as a thief shall it ensnare the whole world .
Folks are too busy with this peace and safety we are one unity stuff to even see the signs .
HOW is this for a sign . FOR WHEN they shall SAY PEACE and SAFETY , THEN SUDDEN destruction comes upon
them and they will NOT escape . EVERYTHING is fast becoming all about unity for world peace and safety . OH YES
the signs are really getting clear as to what days we are in .

 

[DuckieLady]

What also did JESUS warn one church in revelation .
HE said if ye will not watch i shall come on you as a thief . One of the biggest end time signs
was that it would be like the days of noah and lott . They were simply living life and then BAM they never saw it coming .
If we notice , nowhere did JESUS ever give the hint it would be many years before HE came .
But in the last generation most would be thinking , OH we got many years left . THIS is a huge sign .
HIS COMING DOES DRAW NIGH sister . it does . And as a thief shall it ensnare the whole world .
Folks are too busy with this peace and safety we are one unity stuff to even see the signs .
HOW is this for a sign . FOR WHEN they shall SAY PEACE and SAFETY , THEN SUDDEN destruction comes upon
them and they will NOT escape . EVERYTHING is fast becoming all about unity for world peace and safety . OH YES
the signs are really getting clear as to what days we are in .

Exactly and if those didn't go before us did not hold onto waiting, even if it wasn't for them, it would have been forgotten - therefore those who passed before us did not wait or have faith in vain!

They held onto it without realizing it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Exactly and if those didn't go before us did not hold onto waiting, even if it wasn't for them, it would have been forgotten - therefore those who passed before us did not wait or have faith in vain!

These all died in faith that JESUS was coming in their lifetime . Yep they died not in vain .
But when the heart of one begins to say MY LORD delays His coming , That heart is already in grave danger .
Those died in vain .
And ponder this too dear sister , Nearly two thousand years ago JOHN was shown things .
One thing in particular was some kind of mark that if one did not have it they would not be able to function in society , not able to buy or sell .
NOW LOOK at our system . For the first time we have the technology and ability to make this happen . FOR SURE its getting very close .

 

[amigo de christo]

another sign . What did JESUS tell that one person . He said whose Image and superscriptoin is this .
That image could not speak . BUT NOW WE HAVE THAT TECHNOLOGY TOO .
Talk about the signs of the times . An image that is able to speak . We have that technology .
Signs are showing this is indeed the last generation . Things are becoming much clearer .
And just as sodom , the world has now changed , it no longer even tries to hide its sin , IT celebrates it RIGHT IN the streets .
Some of you all are quite young . But i am telling us , It used to be sin more more hidden . BUT NOT TODAY
today its honored , celebrated , called love and if any does warn against it , they are gone after .
We are indeed running out of time .

 

[michaelvpardo]

God's grace does not rule out obedience.

"If you love me keep my commands."

"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9

I do not submit to man's authority, only God's, and if a church leader is operating against the knowledge of Christ, then he is no longer operating under Christ and his position is nothing by default.

Never said that it does, just that it isn't at all dependent upon obedience. Remember, a rough definition of grace is "favor without merit;" you don't earn grace. There's an old hymn called "Trust and Obey" which expresses the idea that our happiness is dependent upon our obedience, but let me put this in terms of biblical teaching. The New Testament epistles are instructions, admonitions, and encouragements to the church, not the world. They're typically written to Christian individuals, churches, or simply to the saints. In those epistles we find warnings not to sin. The implication is that Christians sin, either unintentionally or intentionally, but should live Holy or sanctified lives. The epistles also speak of the discipline of God's children as a proof that they are indeed God's children. Do you discipline a child who is doing the right thing, or the wrong thing? God's desire for us, like that of any good parent, is that we grow up to do what is good and to avoid evil. When God punishes one of His children, the purpose is to correct sinful behavior, but He doesn't treat unbelievers the same way. Those outside the body aren't disciplined, they're judged, either suddenly in their lives or at the 2nd resurrection.
The thing is, once God gives His Holy Spirit to someone, He doesn't take it back. The Holy Spirit does many things in our Christian walk, but His presence within us is also a spiritual seal of ownership, a proof of our relationship to Him. He can be grieved by our sin, and certainly is when we ignore His promptings upon our conscience, but He can't be harmed by us and will never leave us. If you have His Spirit and respond faithfully to His directions, you'll do what is pleasing to God. If you remain rebellious and disobedient, God Himself will do whatever it takes to restore you to Himself. Our salvation is never dependent on obedience except for the command to believe the gospel itself, but obedience allows a Christian to live a life blessed by God and ultimately one pleasing to Him and where Christ can be unashamed to call us brethren.

 

[amigo de christo]

Fluffy is right . Grace does not omit obediance . IT PUTS the LOVE OF GOD upon our hearts .
And he who loves GOD , loves Christ and HE who loves CHRIST keeps HIS sayings .
Ye cannot seperate love and obediance . JESUS said it best , HE who LOVES ME NOT , KEEPS NOT MY SAYINGS .
HE who LOVES ME KEEPS MY SAYINGS . And grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts
and to be walking soberly , righteously and godly in this world as we await , or hasten unto the coming of our LORD .

 

[michaelvpardo]

Thanks for clearing that up. Couple of questions if you don't mind. Is it true that the RCC teach that Mary was sinless. And what is the hail Mary, does this not glorify her? Thanks

Yup, and its also taught that she ascended into heaven, just as Islam claims of their false prophet.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Actually there are 72 not the butchered 66 that you use that Jews who hated Christ put together. See the problem is you won't get over your evangicalness to even look at the true meaning of the word pray, that is why having conversations like this are fruitless. You all don't want real conversations just gotcha ones from your butchered bibles.

Instead of asking hat Catholics believe and how you can understand better with having an intelligent conversation, you bear false witness against the brethren. Maybe next tie you could ask nicely, hopefully that is not to hard for protestants to do.

Uh, the RCC recognizes only 66 books of the bible as legitimate scripture, the other 6 books in RCC bibles are recognized as apocryphal. That means that they are useful for historical account or teach principles found elsewhere in scripture, but are not considered inerrant or inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[FHII]

Hi Fluffy!

Lots of comments, but I am just going to address your OP:

1. Idolatry

I believe Catholics are committing the sin of idolatry with literal idols of the Virgin Mary and by praying for to the saints for intercession, when Christ is our intercessor. I say that there is nothing in the Bible that says to do so, rather Jesus taught to pray to the Father.

Yeah, for the most part I agree. We pray to the Father and should invoke the name of Jesus in the prayer. Personally, I believe you can pray to Jesus or the Father. I am not a Trinitarian so I dont separate them.

The Catholic POV will come at you with a verse in James 5:16... Pray ye one for another. I believe that. I pray more for my brethren than I do for myself. I suppose it could mean to pray for deceased brethren, and ask them to pray for you... But thats really way out of context! I am supposed to pray for Fluffy Duck and Fluffy is supposed to pray for me because we have not been blessed to pass onto paradise! In theory, yea... We could ask Mary and John the Baptist and David to pray for us... But they are dead. They know nothing. They are waiting for us!

Even with all that... There is a larger portion put on Mary than even Jesus Christ or The Father. We aren't supposed to pray with vain repetition (but some will say praying to Mary isn't vain, but I disagree), but when your "Hail Mary's" outnumber "Hail Jesus" 6:1... There is a disturbing problem!

2. Idolatry and Greed

believe the large elaborate churches and the Holy See are another unnecessary form of idolatry, although I will not say some Christian churches are not guilty of the same.

Why? "The son of man had no place to rest his head." Also the part with the knocking the tables over. "You have turned my house into a den of thieves."

Sorry, I am not totally with you on this point 100%. God is first! If you were to start a new community from scratch... Build the Church first! And make it better than you're own house! I have scripture on that and I point you to Haggai.

But Haggai was honest about it! He said build God's house and you will be blessed. No... The Pope is not God and the House of God should never be a den of thieves...

I am going to skip to Church History... Yea... Its terrible! Its terrible because of carnal sins, but then every other Church has those too! Can you not believe that all sins are forgiven?

I am more concerned with errors in doctrine. I believe God will forgive carnal sins... I do not believe he will forgive not preaching the truth.

 

[Philip James]

So if we could have a friendly debate that would be nice

Well so much for that..

I'm out

 

[DuckieLady]

Sorry all, I have to step off of here now. I have other things to work on this week and I don't want to get "internet brain" so I'm going until God decides I'm not. I don't seem to get to decide.

See y'all around

 

[GRACE ambassador]

So my main concerns with Catholicism are as follows:

Precious friend, I used to be Concerned with "a list of doctrines," but Extremely
Narrowed them down to Only ONE {why I Ran from RCC!}:

They EQUATED THEIR church/tradition/magesterium EQUAL TO/Higher Than:

God's PURE/Preserved Word! But, God Says:

”The WORDS Of The LORD Are Pure WORDS: as silver tried
in a furnace of earth, Purified Seven Times. Thou Shalt Keep THEM,
O LORD, Thou Shalt PRESERVE THEM from this generation for ever.”
(Psalms 12:6-7 KJB!)
+
"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy HOLY
Name for Thy LovingKindness and for Thy TRUTH: for Thou
Hast MAGNIFIED Thy WORD Above All Thy Name!"
( Psalms 138:2 KJB! )

We do know "Lucifer said he Would Be HIGHER Than God,"
and Exactly HOW that worked out for him, Correct?

Thus, I have left All traditional religions Behind me, And:

"Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do,
forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those
things which are before,I press toward the mark for The Prize of the High
Calling of God in CHRIST JESUS!" (Philippians 3 : 13-14)

NO regrets! Please, Be Very Richly Blessed!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

That's some chutzpah, standing as the accusor of Jesus' own mother.

Good luck with that!

explain what these verses mean:

"There is none righteous, no, not one" - Romans 3:10
"There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one" - verse 12
"for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" - verse 23

and many others. The Bible, which is ALONE The Infallible, Inerrant Word of God, says that EVERY human being is a SINNER, and in need of THE Saviour, Jesus Christ. Mary is included. It is the RCC that made this humble, godly, blessed, woman, into something that she is NOT. Like the nonsense of being a ever virgin, when Matthew 1:25 destroys this heresy, as the NLT gives the Greek, "But he did not have sexual relations with her UNTIL her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus". "UNTIL" means, that after Jesus was born, Mary hade normal sexual relations with Joseph, and had other children.The Jerusalem Bible, which is produced by the RCC, reads here: "and, though he had not had intercourse with her, she gave birth' to a son; and he named him Jesus". Which is NOT what the Greek says, "καὶ οὐκ ἐγίνωσκεν αὐτὴν ἕως οὗ ἔτεκεν υἱόν· καὶ ἐκάλεσεν τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν", which completely agrees with the reading of the New Living Translation. Why the need to pervert what the Bible actually teaches, if indeed it says what one believes?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I am more concerned with errors in doctrine. I believe God will forgive carnal sins... I do not believe he will forgive not preaching the truth.

Pretty sure that the Lord Himself said that all sins can be forgiven but one, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Paul was a blasphemer of the Lord Jesus Christ until his encounter with the risen Lord on the way to Damascus. I could be wrong, but it would seem that any strange doctrines that don't directly blaspheme the Holy Spirit can be covered by the blood of Christ.
If the Lord doesn't forgive preaching doctrinal error that is unintentional, most of the posters on this forum are in serious trouble, myself included. The Truth of God's word is tested and proven, but our understanding changes over time as the Holy Spirit shows us the meaning of the words He inspired. The Lord Himself said to His disciples “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:12-13
The Lord showed a kindness to His disciples in withholding some things from them until they were able to bear it. I'm convinced that He still does the same thing, showing us what is to come when we are able to bear it. It is, after all, what Jesus promised to His immediate disciples and to those who would believe through their teaching.