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So are you saying that even though He promised to NEVER leave me, and NEVER forsake me,He tells us just eight verses later from the verse you are quoting......
They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them Deuteronomy 31:16-17
And now, before you start ranting "that's old testament!", read this.......
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” Hebrews 10:28-30
If we disown him, he will also disown us 2 Timothy 2:12
There's nothing wrong with living up to your responsibilities!AS IF there is something wrong with one living up to one’s responsibilities.
There's nothing wrong with living up to your responsibilities!
What gave you that idea?
The thing is that it means, from being dead, He was made alive. Now scriptures says that we were made alive together with Christ. That would imply that we were in a sense dead and were made alive, and that together with Christ."Made a live" He resurrected in a body that could eat and drink.Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes they do not. So that is settled.
Do you agree that when scriptures says that Christ was raised, it means He was made alive?
The question isn’t about judgment. I was just asking if you believe there are false brethren among the Christians. The scriptures speaks of such. Do you believe or you do not?That decision of judgment is above our paygrade.Tong2020 said: ↑
I can go with that.
Now, do you believe that there are false brethren? If so, do you say that they are the elect of God?
They were available in any city. In the churchDid not say that there were not valid texts and texts that made it into the first Bible.
We do know that there were favored texts that did not make it into the Bible.
And we do not know if these texts selected for the Bible ever resided in one place during the biblical era.
Which is sad, considering in the book of Acts the church was seen in homes. The temple was seen as the body. Not some expensive building. They also met continuously. Not just on SundayYeap there were Christian churches built on top of Pagan temples....or the ruins of Pagan temples.
No. I am talking about the eucharist. Not the lords supper and found in many churches.If you are talking about the bread and wine ritual...I find no Paganism in it. Christ instituted this and performed it....Christ is not a Pagan. He warned that not performing meant that you did not abide in Him or Him in you....there is no life in you....and he will not raise you on the last day. This ritual seems shocking to some. In deed His own Apostles reacted to it negatively, His disciples no longer walked with Him, and the conversation he was having with the others stopped. He felt this ritual was so important that He was willing to risk His ministry on it.
You states one could commit a sin and lose salvation. Basically in saying so you are placing people under law. The law required perfection. No one is perfect. Hence NO ONE earns salvation.I am not sure what you are getting at here. If you keep one Law you have to keep all 613 Mosaic Laws and welcome to the Old Covenant you are a Jew...not a Christian. Are you planning on selling your daughter as a sex slave....because you can according to the Mosaic Law.
There is no one good but God. I think we can start here.Again not sure of everything you are getting at here. If you are having trouble understanding what good is...we can work on that
If you are having trouble understanding what evil is...we can work on that.
The Bible tell us what is not going to make it to heaven...absolutely clear...I have already given you the location of those scriptures.
In context your average Christian is going to sin. Ask for forgiveness and be forgiven....It is not wrong of Christ to expect us to learn from our mistake...evil...sinful lifestyles is another matter. You cannot repent something you intend to do.
No evil will go to heaven.Again your biblical understanding is back to all matter of evil goes to heaven...How is that a reward for good people. All in all the OSAS crowd views good people as the enemy...if you are good your are self-righteous. And then parts of the Bible are the legalist sections.
People have tried that for years. Just because one quotes a verse does not mean they interpret it correctly.Why would they do all that? When all they have to do is quote the Bible to shoot your beliefs down.
LOL, Just ah, No! He was referring to the ministry of death engraved on stones...the Mosaic Law. Explaining Christians are not of the Law...and if you look to the Law for justification you are severed from Christ and have fallen from Grace. You wouldn't have any Ten Commandments posted anywhere, would ya? LOL
I once asked Ferris why he keep believing. I would like to ask that question to you as well.Because that is all Ferris and I are saying and are bashed relentlessly for it.
He uses tautalogies. Empty, meaningless statements. Self evident sayings disguised to sound erudite.For if forgiveness of sins is absolute, then is done and no condition future to that will change it.
You mean resuscitated?The thing is that it means, from being dead, He was made alive.
He was made alive.
Now scriptures says that we were made alive together with Christ. That would imply that we were in a sense dead and were made alive, and that together with Christ.
Exceedingly Great and Precious Promises!!!Perhaps it would be helpful to list here what scriptures says of the genuine Christian.
1. They were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, Jesus Christ.
2. They have been justified by faith, having been justified by the blood of Christ Jesus.
3. The love of God has been poured out in their hearts.
4. They have died to sin.
5. They are not under law but under grace.
6. They have been set free from sin.
7. They have been delivered from the law.
8. They are in Christ Jesus and in the Spirit.
9. They have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.
10. They have the Spirit of Christ in them.
11. They are children of God, having received the Spirit of adoption, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
12. They were predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
13. They shall not be separated from the love of Christ.
14. They are not their own as they were bought at a price. They are Christ’s. They are God’s.
15. They were washed, were sanctified, were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God.
16. Their bodies are members of Christ. Together they are one body, the body of Christ, and members individually.
17. Their body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
18. They are a new creation in Christ.
19. They are children of promise.
20. They were chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the world.
21. They were predestined to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to God.
22. They have in Christ obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of God.
23. They were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of their inheritance.
24. They were made alive together with Christ, raised up together, and made to sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
25. They have been saved by grace through faith.
26. They are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to walk in.
27. God works in them both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
28. Their citizenship is in heaven, not in this world.
29. They have been delivered by the Father from the power of darkness and were conveyed into the kingdom of the Son, Jesus Christ.
30. They were, in Christ, circumcised with the circumcision made without hands.
31. They have been forgiven of all trespasses.
32. They are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
33. They were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Now, consider all of those truth about the genuine Christian, them who were born of God and see what becomes of the issues that confront the Christians today, such as the issue under this thread.
Tong
R2910
Find the word "Bible" in the Bible.Find the phrase genuine Christian in the Bible
I once asked Ferris why he keep believing. I would like to ask that question to you as well.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,...agreed
No. If I lived in the biblical era...maybe. As a Christian in modern times....the Law has nothing to do with me. I have never lived under the Law...again I am not a Jew and never have been.
Then you will believe this . . .I believe in it. Just not in Calvin's definition of those things. I believe what the Bible says those things are.
But anyway, just for fun....
1. As you know, I believe you lose the forgiveness of sin you have while a believer if you go back to unbelief. Christ's completed, but ongoing ministry of intercession (Hebrews 7:25) only applies to the person who is trusting in it, not the person who doesn't trust in it.
2. No, not taken back when one sins. Taken back when one goes back to unbelief. All sins are covered for the believer, not for the unbeliever.
3. Forgiveness of sin is absolute, as long as the gospel message remains in your heart.
For if forgiveness of sins is absolute, then is done and no condition future to that will change it.
"Forgiveness is absolute! Except when it's not!".
This has nothing to do with why I myself understand rebirth to be forever.Indirectly OSAS by default can be connected to Calvinism only because of the belief that God is a puppet master and in effect does not allowing free-will and determined who was going to heaven and hell before the creation of the world. Which defines God with satanic characteristics.
Scriptures said He was made alive. If you can’t understand that or you just like to use another term? Scriptures said, He was put to death, but He was made alive.You mean resuscitatedTong2020 said: ↑
The thing is that it means, from being dead, He was made alive.
So?The body that Christ came back with was not exactly the same.
If that is your view, then there is nothing to discuss with you about that.Yes alive and dead. Religious symbology ... theological terms...the exactness of which, can we comprehend? The exactness of which that if we take it further than religious symbiology can we accurately define it...if the Apostle did not define it. Loosely we can say that spiritual life...heaven can only come from our relationship with Christ. And by the way remember that Christ said if you do not perform the bread and wine ritual that there is no life in you...Things change if you do not.Tong2020 said: ↑
Now scriptures says that we were made alive together with Christ. That would imply that we were in a sense dead and were made alive, and that together with Christ.
I'm not sure why this is a thing?I am really not so sure if you really like to discuss. I dropped the term that you have an issue with and use a term found in scriptures so we can skip that issue and move on.
<<<I know that the scriptures use the word elect...and I believe that applies to all Christians. >>>
Well you also know that the scriptures used the word genuine and the word Christian.
Do you believe that Christians refer to themselves as brethren? Do you believe that there are false brethren? Now, do you believe that the false brethren are elect of God?
Tong
R2928
My answer was accurate.The question isn’t about judgment. I was just asking if you believe there are false brethren among the Christians. The scriptures speaks of such. Do you believe or you do not?
Tong
R2934