Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Ezra said: ↑
if were abiding in sin with out repentance remorse no conviction ==odds are YOU never was saved

In most cases that is probably true, IMO. But not all the time.

So does it agree with your opinion, if one who was saved, like you just for example, for whatever reason, choose to totally reject Jesus Christ now, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

Does it agree with your opinion, if just for example, for whatever reason you fall away to Judaism, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

Tong
R2960

 

[Tong2020]

Calvin says you are elected on the basis of being predestined/predetermined to be able to believe.

Anti-Calvinism says you are elected on the basis of having faith in God, and that the believer is predestined/predetermined to be conformed to the image of Christ in adoption.

In my reading, Scriptures says neither, but speaks of God’s election of grace and salvation through faith in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ, and of their predestination to be conformed to the image of Christ and adoption as sons or children of God.

Tong
R2961

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The question I first would asked What does the Bible say one is saved from....
And what does that mean to you? Add one scripture to support your point.

26“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
38“...that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
Acts 13:26-39​

Through faith in the forgiveness of God, provided for us in the Sacrifice of Jesus, we are no longer guilty of the sins we have committed. Therefore, we will not be condemned as sinners and separated from God forever when Jesus comes back.

 

[Tong2020]

And He stays there—me in Him, and Him in me—as long as I continue to believe......

As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.​

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27...remain in him.

28And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
1 John 2:24-28

It doesn't matter if some think the true believer will always believe, and some think they can stop believing. The important thing is that we all agree that you must believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. And that we do that!

Does it matter to you if one thinks that if a true believer falls away, can later repent back to believe in Jesus Christ?

Tong
R2962

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So does it agree with your opinion, if one who was saved, like you just for example, for whatever reason, choose to totally reject Jesus Christ now, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

I think the amount of time God allows a person to come back to faith after falling into unbelief depends on that person's particular circumstances. How long did God leave the door open for the Corinthians to come back to the real gospel of a risen savior? How long did God give the Galatians the opportunity to abandon their return to the keeping of the Mosaic feasts and sabbaths for justification? We don't know. We just know he did in their cases.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Does it matter to you if one thinks that if a true believer falls away, can later repent back to believe in Jesus Christ?

Tong
R2962

Yes. I think we should encourage believers who have abandoned faith in Christ to come back to faith in Christ. Just as Paul encouraged the Galatians and the Corinthians to come back to faith in Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Does it agree with your opinion, if just for example, for whatever reason you fall away to Judaism, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

The Galatians show us that God may allow a window of opportunity for a believer who has fallen away from Christ and into Judaism to come back to faith in Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In my reading, Scriptures says neither, but speaks of God’s election of grace and salvation through faith in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ, and of their predestination to be conformed to the image of Christ and adoption as sons or children of God.

That's what I said.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God is not a God of the dead but the living...so the only way to be raised is with "zoe" life...which is in His son?

Some may have the resurrection life of Christ in them in salvation but not have the 'zoe' quality of that life in their daily living. We call them the 'frozen chosen'. They have the Spirit within them in salvation but they enjoy zero benefits of that life in them. The Spirit is suppressed in them, for whatever reason, and so they do not enjoy the abundance of the overflow of the Spirit in their lives. You have to obey the Spirit to have the abundance of the Spirit.

10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. John 15:10-11

21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” John 14:21​

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So does it agree with your opinion, if one who was saved, like you just for example, for whatever reason, choose to totally reject Jesus Christ now, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

I think the amount of time God allows a person to come back to faith after falling into unbelief depends on that person's particular circumstances. How long did God leave the door open for the Corinthians to come back to the real gospel of a risen savior? How long did God give the Galatians the opportunity to abandon their return to the keeping of the Mosaic feasts and sabbaths for justification? We don't know. We just know he did in their cases.

Scriptures say it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance, if they fall away. And that runs contrary to what you think there.

Tong
R2963

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Does it matter to you if one thinks that if a true believer falls away, can later repent back to believe in Jesus Christ?

Yes. I think we should encourage believers who have abandoned faith in Christ to come back to faith in Christ. Just as Paul encouraged the Galatians and the Corinthians to come back to faith in Christ.

Scriptures says it is impossible to bring them back to repentance, if they fall away. What can you say about that?

Tong
R2964

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Does it agree with your opinion, if just for example, for whatever reason you fall away to Judaism, that you can’t later choose to repent and believe in Him again?

The Galatians show us that God may allow a window of opportunity for a believer who has fallen away from Christ and into Judaism to come back to faith in Christ.

Set aside the Galatians for a while. I am asking if you consider yourself for example, do you think it possible for you, after falling away into Judaism for example, that it is possible that you can later choose to repent and believe again?

Tong
R2965

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
In my reading, Scriptures says neither, but speaks of God’s election of grace and salvation through faith in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ, and of their predestination to be conformed to the image of Christ and adoption as sons or children of God.

That's what I said.

Haven’t read that in what you posted.

Tong
R2966

 

[Corlove13]

26“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
38“...that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
Acts 13:26-39​

Through faith in the forgiveness of God, provided for us in the Sacrifice of Jesus, we are no longer guilty of the sins we have committed. Therefore, we will not be condemned as sinners and separated from God forever when Jesus comes back.

Your regeneration is not your justification...am Correct.

 

[Corlove13]

Scriptures says ot is impossible to being them back to repentance, if they fall away. What can you say about that?

Tong
R2964

I know I have sinned...willfully not that I was a Jew. But did my own thing...the condemnation/PUNISHMENT remains the same. OR IS IT DIFFERENT?

I DO NOT KNOW TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT WILLFULLY, WITH KNOWLEDGE OF RIGHT FROM WRONG HAVE NOT SINNED.

SHALL WE GO ON THAT GRACE MAY INCREASE ...GOD FORBID!....SOUNDS LIKE WOE UNTO THAT MAN THAT KNOWS TO DO RIGHT AND DOES NOT DO IT.

HOWEVER THE WILLFUL SIN I BELIEVE HEAR IS REJECTING THE FAITH THAT WE ARE SAVED THROUGH........FOR WHAT PURPOSE WOULD IT BE FOR CHRIST TO LIVE FOREVER TO INTERCEEDS FOR THOSE WHO COME TO HIM?.....IF HE DOES NOT UPHOLD US. AND HOW COULD WE GROW UNLESS WE FALL. OR LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES.

Question is have people in the old Cov died without Mercy? MOST LIKELY YES. BUT DOES THEIR DEATH MEAN PERMANENT SEPERATION FROM GOD....IDK OR COULD IT MEAN THEIR DEATH SAVED THEM FROM ANOTHER TYPE OF DEATH?

IT IS WRITTEN IT IS BETTER NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY THAN TO HAVE KNOWN IT AND TURNED FROM IT. EVER WONDERED WHAT HAPPENS TO A DOG THAT TURNS BACK TO HIS WN VOMIT?..

THERE IS A PASSAGE THAT MENTIONS TURNING ONE OVER TO SATAN THAT HIS SOUL MIGHT BE SAVED.
Hebrews 6
So although I believe the author is contrasting
A situation that may impliment fear, to show how unpurposeful going back to Judaism might be , most likely under grave situations,
He saw in mind for them better things that accompanied salvation. ....And my thought.of the better thing is the reward of life....if they continued on the course....that life then would sustain them under persecution....And would not
that be some grace!

But a core thought even for myself....is that there is no fear in love, for perfect love cast out fear for fear has to do with punishment. So then If I fear, I have yet to be perfected in/for or by Love. [One of those preps]
ANYWAY IF SCRIPTURE SAYS PEOPLE DIED WITHOUT MERCY THAN THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN [DELIVERED] AT THE SAME TIME. If one dies in their sins what is there to expect but what judgement is coming.

 

[Corlove13]

The question is what Spirit was in Christ that raised Him from the dead.

Give verses of the Spirit.

For if the Spirit is in us it will also raise us from the dead.

I'll share my take and hope to learn from others.

Jesus said I give to them eternal life.
So eternal life seems to have to be a continual present possession?

Now I am one that have had many scary changed thoughts. Here is one. After reading and listening from Dallas Willard. I SEE SALVATION AS A LIFE TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO ABIDE...IN HIS TEACHINGS

THEREFORE WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE STOPS ABIDING? YOU ARE AS PURPOSEFUL AS THE LIFE THAT SUSTAINS YOU OTHER WISE...AS A FLOWER CUT FROM ITS SOURCE IT DIES.

I SEE LIFE FOR LIFE........IF YOU CONTINE UNTO DEATH ITS LIKELY YOU CONTINUE OUTSIDE OF DEATH.





IF THE JOY OF THE LORD IS MY STRENGH
THEN IT IS ALSO MY SALVATION FOR OVERCOMING THIS WORLD.

 

[Corlove13]

26“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
38“...that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
Acts 13:26-39​

Through faith in the forgiveness of God, provided for us in the Sacrifice of Jesus, we are no longer guilty of the sins we have committed. Therefore, we will not be condemned as sinners and separated from God forever when Jesus comes back.

Hi,
What do you think "through Him" means?

 

[Ezra]

In most cases that is probably true, IMO. But not all the time.

so which time? the time you pick you have yet to prove your case a person either is or they are not. he has promised us Eternal life and he said no man can pluck us from or out of the father hand . if we are kept by the power of God.. what point are we no longer kept and what point are we out of His hand . at what point doe we no longer have eternal life ???? i see a lot of gnat straining in all these post.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hi,
What do you think "through Him" means?

He is the agent through which the forgiveness of sin and resurrection from death comes to man.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your regeneration is not your justification...am Correct.

Christ is the just payment for your sin. Justification comes through your faith in His resurrection.

to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Romans 4:24-25
​

That's why it was so serious when the Corinthians stopped believing in a risen savior.