WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[Tong2020]

Understand what you are saying and understand that beliefs differ on the processes of salvation and what some of these process are and what they do in relation to our salvation.

And I have explained most of this in detail. The big picture is that if Christianity is about a relationship with God, and a person does nothing, is that a relationship? You might think that this is apple and oranges, but I contend that it is not.

Why do you call me Lord Lord, if you do not do what I say....then Acts 2:38...does any of that affect our salvation and or our relationship with God?

Belief as the sole requirement for salvation....There are those that believe that...a thought that Christ is real. And continue on with your life as if nothing else happened? Nothing we do matters in regard to our salvation. Interesting thought and is totally embraced by the OSAS crowd.

So what is repentance...if not a change in our life? A do? A work?
So what happens if we do not get baptized? And is it a do? A work?
So what happens if we do not participate in Communion? Is it a do? A work? I find this set of scriptures particularly interesting.
Although some try to explain them away, but Christ felt this was so important that He risked shutting down His ministry. He is talking to Jews and his own Apostles interrupted the conversation reacting to it strongly and His disciples walked away and no longer walked with Him

In this conversation Christ indicates if you do not perform this ritual that He does not abide in you and you in Him. He says there will be no life in you...this is contingent on if He will raise you on the last day. Now if you are saved and He does raise you, what is that like? So then they go on to perform this ritual at the Last Supper. Now this not an analogy because Christ says, This is my blood and this is my body. And they drink from the cup and eat the bread. I don't think Christ would have risked shutting down His ministry over something that was not critically important.

So if we do nothing but think...can we be saved?

Don’t think but that if you hear His voice, Believe!

No one had ever been saved by his own doing or workings. None. One can try his very best, yet to no avail. It is God who worketh and saves. The one to whom the voice of God comes, He gives the power to hear and believe, that is, faith. And through faith, he is saved by God.

After that, can the saved do just about anything he wills then? Of course not! For believing comes with it the surrender of his will to God. God saved him not so that he could go on sinning, but that, that he would do His will. That is why God predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ who does the will of God, even perfectly at that. Now what God had predestined of them, God will surely accomplish. Nothing could and will change that. He will work that out in every one whom He saves and how it will be to each of them will be different, but nonetheless, each will be conformed to one and the same image, that is, of Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2982

 

[Daniel Veler]

Tong have you truly understood the operation of the Holy Spirit? All these things we will do because we are the Lord’s workmanship created in Christ. But yet it is not us but the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[Tong2020]

justbyfaith said: ↑
And, of course, this is because of your (continued) faith in Jesus and what He did for you on the Cross.
If you were to cease to have faith, you would lose salvation..

You are Still teaching "self saving" lies, typical of a devout legalist who refuses to Give CHRIST the Credit for saving His beloved and keeping them saved.
You are totally : Galatians 1:8

@ IBF

When Paul argues that we are saved apart from works, he is talking about religious ritual. Jewish leaders at the time argued that Yahweh's promise of eternal life belongs to Israel and that anyone seeking to participate in this promise must convert to Judaism. Paul disagreed with that assessment, arguing that the promise was always granted in light of someone's faith; his or her actions demonstrating and giving evidence of faith in the individual.

If Billy is interested in eternal life, he must enter the kingdom through Jesus Christ and believe on him.

Ask anybody if they want to have eternal life. We know the answer.

But there is this truth, that unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. So if Billy is born from above, he can see the kingdom of God.

Tong
R2983

 

[Tong2020]

It has nothing to do with fair. We are basically on the same track, but I am point out the reason for this focus on works...the discussion on works...the concern about works, a theological attempt to correct a wrong when there is no wrong. The objection to works in Christianity is not biblical, it occurs 1500 years later with the issues between the Catholics and the Protestants. The Protestant's objections to the Church dictating that there were Catholic things you had to do or not do to be saved.

There is no one in the Bible saying, "Whatever you do, don't do anything good."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Good Deeds are what gets you to heaven."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "We don't need to do Baptism, we can just call it done with the next bath."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Communion is works."
The Christ and the Apostles were not giving people choices, they were not hearing debates on things like, what constituted repentance, or if it was necessary.
You don't have any examples in the Bible about the Apostles tolerating any back talk.
People did what Christ and the Apostles told them to do....or not....settle up on Judgment Day.
The closest thing we have to Christ addressing back talk is...“Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?"

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith in whom? In God and Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ. That is the simple truth.

Without such faith, no works could really be said to be “good”.

Good works are the works which God had prepared for them who were saved, who have faith in God and in Jesus Christ, to do. Not so that they will be saved, for such works are for the saved to do not for the unsaved to do to be saved.

Tong
R2984

 

[Tong2020]

Is there another church?

There is only one church, that scriptures says is the body of Christ. Those who belong to the church are called Christians.

Tong
R2985

 

[Tong2020]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Redemption, justification, sanctification are all God’s works. Salvation is all God’s work.

Tong
R2986

 

[Tong2020]

Exactly. They arenot works of men but Grace of God

Hi!

If you know and the RCC, did the early church pray to the virgin Mary? Did the apostles preached preached and taught what RCC preach and teach concerning the virgin Mary?

Tong
R2987

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Taking verse 21 by itself, out of its context, has led some to conclude that we are saved by good works.

Take notice of what Jesus said in Mt.7:23, “I never knew you”. There was not a time that He knew them.

Christ's judgment on those who make sin a career.

Those whom Jesus never knew, even while they say to Him “Lord, Lord”, shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Tong
R2988

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Taking verse 21 by itself, out of its context, has led some to conclude that we are saved by good works.

Take notice of what Jesus said in Mt.7:23, “I never knew you”. There was not a time that He knew them.

If you truly understood eternal life you would then understand why Christ says in several parable “I know you not”.

Hi!

Are you saying I don’t truly understand eternal life? But you do?

So, since you seem to impress on this forum that you truly understand eternal life and because you do, you understand why Christ said what He said in Matthew 7:23.

So tell us what Jesus meant when He said “ I never knew you.” in Mt.7:23.

Tong
R2989

 

[Tong2020]

Tong have you truly understood the operation of the Holy Spirit? All these things we will do because we are the Lord’s workmanship created in Christ. But yet it is not us but the Holy Spirit in us.

I have the same understanding.

Tong
R2990

 

[theefaith]

There is only one church, that scriptures says is the body of Christ. Those who belong to the church are called Christians.

Tong
R2985

how do you become a member?

 

[Grailhunter]

Taking verse 21 by itself, out of its context, has led some to conclude that we are saved by good works.

Take notice of what Jesus said in Mt.7:23, “I never knew you”. There was not a time that He knew them.

Tong
R2981

Christ did-does not have a tolerance to sin, so the "I never knew you" statement is in line with 1st John 3:5 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

And 1st John 3:9-10 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@ IBF

Ask anybody if they want to have eternal life. We know the answer.

But there is this truth, that unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. So if Billy is born from above, he can see the kingdom of God.

Tong
R2983

Yep, but the point is this. Billy's life, his actions and attitudes will reflect the fact.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
There is only one church, that scriptures says is the body of Christ. Those who belong to the church are called Christians.

how do you become a member?

Seriously, don’t you know? Or do you want to tell how?

Tong
R2996

 

[theefaith]

Christ did-does not have a tolerance to sin, so the "I never knew you" statement is in line with 1st John 3:5 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

And 1st John 3:9-10 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

saved by grace but we must correspond to the grace God gives us
In both faithfulness and good works
Jn 3:16 implies a continual state of believing Matt 24:13 implies it must be unto death any failure on our part requires repentance Phil 1:29 says good works done in God’s by members of Christ are meritorious

 

[theefaith]

Seriously, don’t you know? Or do you want to tell how?

Tong
R2996

Pray tell me?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Taking verse 21 by itself, out of its context, has led some to conclude that we are saved by good works.

Take notice of what Jesus said in Mt.7:23, “I never knew you”. There was not a time that He knew them.

Christ did-does not have a tolerance to sin, so the "I never knew you" statement is in line with 1st John 3:5 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

And 1st John 3:9-10 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

<<<Christ did-does not have a tolerance to sin>>>

Jesus forgives sins. Remember the woman caught in adultery? He did not condemn her did He? Scriptures did not even say if the woman asked to be forgiven.

With regards the rest of what you said there, nothing takes away what Jesus said in Mt.7:23. Yes John said that no one who sins knows Jesus. But what Jesus said in Mt.7:23 is “I never knew you”. What John was saying is them not knowing Christ while Jesus was saying He never knew them. Very different. It is clear, there was not a time that Jesus knew them. They profess to know Jesus, even says to Him “Lord, Lord”. Yet Jesus knew them not, not even at one time, but NEVER.

Tong
R2997

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Ask anybody if they want to have eternal life. We know the answer.

But there is this truth, that unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. So if Billy is born from above, he can see the kingdom of God.

Yep, but the point is this. Billy's life, his actions and attitudes will reflect the fact.

Not if Billy will not live long enough to reflect that, like the thief on the cross.

Tong
R2998

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not if Billy will not live long enough to reflect that, like the thief on the cross.

Tong
R2998

Well . . . yes. I should also say at this point that God is actually judging the heart of a person, so while the thief on the cross didn't have opportunity to give full expression of his belief, he would have, given an opportunity. The same could be said of the Patriarchs. They never knew Jesus but presumably, when they finally meet him, they will believe in him just as we do. Why? Because they are the kind of people who would.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Seriously, don’t you know? Or do you want to tell how?

Pray tell me?

<<<how do you become a member?>>>

It is God who adds to the church. He have Jesus Christ preached to them and works in them, bringing them to repentance unto faith in Him and in Jesus Christ and baptizes them with the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R2999