WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[theefaith]

And promised by God in the OT


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life (grace more abundantly)

 

[amigo de christo]

then all will be saved? Yes?

Only those who believe in Christ . Those who refuse to believe in HIM , well not a good ending for those .

 

[theefaith]

Only those who believe in Christ . Those who refuse to believe in HIM , well not a good ending for those .

so it is works?

 

[amigo de christo]

so it is works?

But what must we do to work the works of GOD .
This is the work of God , Believe in HE whom God did send .
And faith without works is dead , being alone . Let us be hearers and doers of the Word .

 

[theefaith]

But what must we do to work the works of GOD .
This is the work of God , Believe in HE whom God did send .
And faith without works is dead , being alone . Let us be hearers and doers of the Word .

still must choose to believe

 

[Grailhunter]

The people that can hear me, are not the "natural man" or the "natural mind".
This is why you can't hear me.

The language of evildoers.
It is interesting...the OSAS, the new denomination, and the left have their own language....
If it does not make any sense, its of God. If you are a good Christian, you just do not understand.
Progressive means communism and atheisms.
Grace means license to sin and all evil goes to heaven.
Justification means career sinning and evil lifestyles are embraced and rewarded with heaven.
Legalist means anything in the Bible that speaks of morality and condemns sinning.
Fairness means condoning all evil.
Civil Rights means special rights and embracing the criminal elements of society.
White Supremacist means anyone that is white and is a patriot and believes in the morals of Christianity and supports law and order.
Bigot means anyone that supports the morals of the Bible.
Church...the place to avoid because that is where the legalists are. A place that they cannot fit into, because their beliefs are so far out in left field. And they cannot stand the sermons on morality and the punishment for sin.
Then there is the whole whining thing that they all do that has been so successful. The attempt to silence the Christian voice because it offends them and makes them so sad..."I may be a homosexual or an abortion doctor or a child molester, or a drug abuser, but I am human too. I have feelings, you should not condemn me! I should be free to live my lifestyle and go to heaven too."
It is all an attempt to control what people say and what people do and what people think, by playing the offended card.
Oh! The history of the United States is so bad. We need to destroy this culture of freedom and liberty and bring it up communist and atheist, that way it will be fair. And all the evildoer will be model citizens.

 

[CadyandZoe]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

When Paul argues that we are saved apart from works, he is talking about religious ritual. Jewish leaders at the time argued that Yahweh's promise of eternal life belongs to Israel and that anyone seeking to participate in this promise must convert to Judaism. Paul disagreed with that assessment, arguing that the promise was always granted in light of someone's faith; his or her actions demonstrating and giving evidence of faith in the individual.

If Billy is interested in eternal life, he must enter the kingdom through Jesus Christ and believe on him.

 

[theefaith]

When Paul argues that we are saved apart from works, he is talking about religious ritual. Jewish leaders at the time argued that Yahweh's promise of eternal life belongs to Israel and that anyone seeking to participate in this promise must convert to Judaism. Paul disagreed with that assessment, arguing that the promise was always granted in light of someone's faith; his or her actions demonstrating and giving evidence of faith in the individual.

If Billy is interested in eternal life, he must enter the kingdom through Jesus Christ and believe on him.

apart from works refers to redemption not salvation

 

[Grailhunter]

When Paul argues that we are saved apart from works, he is talking about religious ritual. Jewish leaders at the time argued that Yahweh's promise of eternal life belongs to Israel and that anyone seeking to participate in this promise must convert to Judaism. Paul disagreed with that assessment, arguing that the promise was always granted in light of someone's faith; his or her actions demonstrating and giving evidence of faith in the individual.

If Billy is interested in eternal life, he must enter the kingdom through Jesus Christ and believe on him.

Hey there!
Who is Cady and Zoe?
Paul never spoke against the importance of doing good. There is no one in early Christianity that is thinking that doing Good Deeds can save you. There is no debate on this. There is no one that is thinking that belief, repentance, baptism, and communion...are works.

Paul was dogged by some of the Jews called Judaizers that wanted Gentile-Christians to observe certain aspects of Judaism. This is what he is talking about when he speaks of works---works of the Law.
Now, how Protestants keyed on the word "works" I explain in post #126 of this thread.
If you have any questions let me know.

 

[amigo de christo]

still must choose to believe

FLEE THE RCC my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

still must choose to believe

Choose ye then to learn the bible and not the RCC . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY .

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hey there!
Who is Cady and Zoe?
Paul never spoke against the importance of doing good. There is no one in early Christianity that is thinking that doing Good Deeds can save you. There is no debate on this. There is no one that is thinking that belief, repentance, baptism, and communion...are works.

Paul was dogged by some of the Jews called Judaizers that wanted Gentile-Christians to observe certain aspects of Judaism. This is what he is talking about when he speaks of works---works of the Law.
Now, how Protestants keyed on the word "works" I explain in post #126 of this thread.
If you have any questions let me know.

Well, since I was responding to post number one, is it fair to bring up a point you raised 126 posts later? And I can't understand whether you agreed or disagreed with what I said.

 

[CadyandZoe]

apart from works refers to redemption not salvation

Same thing.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, since I was responding to post number one, is it fair to bring up a point you raised 126 posts later? And I can't understand whether you agreed or disagreed with what I said.

It has nothing to do with fair. We are basically on the same track, but I am point out the reason for this focus on works...the discussion on works...the concern about works, a theological attempt to correct a wrong when there is no wrong. The objection to works in Christianity is not biblical, it occurs 1500 years later with the issues between the Catholics and the Protestants. The Protestant's objections to the Church dictating that there were Catholic things you had to do or not do to be saved.

There is no one in the Bible saying, "Whatever you do, don't do anything good."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Good Deeds are what gets you to heaven."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "We don't need to do Baptism, we can just call it done with the next bath."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Communion is works."
The Christ and the Apostles were not giving people choices, they were not hearing debates on things like, what constituted repentance, or if it was necessary.
You don't have any examples in the Bible about the Apostles tolerating any back talk.
People did what Christ and the Apostles told them to do....or not....settle up on Judgment Day.
The closest thing we have to Christ addressing back talk is...“Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?"

 

[theefaith]

Choose ye then to learn the bible and not the RCC . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY .

Is there another church?

 

[theefaith]

Same thing.

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[CadyandZoe]

It has nothing to do with fair. We are basically on the same track, but I am point out the reason for this focus on works...the discussion on works...the concern about works, a theological attempt to correct a wrong when there is no wrong. The objection to works in Christianity is not biblical, it occurs 1500 years later with the issues between the Catholics and the Protestants. The Protestants objections to the Church dictating that there were Catholic things you had to do or not do to be saved.

There is no one in the Bible saying, "Whatever you do, don't do anything good."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Good Deeds are what gets you to heaven."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "We don't need to do Baptism, we can just call it done with the next bath."
There is no one in the Bible saying, "Communion is works."
The Christ and the Apostles were not giving people choices, they were not hearing debates on things like, what constituted repentance, or if it was necessary.
You don't have any examples in the Bible about the Apostles tolerating any back talk.
People did what Christ and the Apostles told them to do....or not....settle up on Judgment Day.
The closest thing we have to Christ addressing back talk is...“Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?"

Okay, I get it. You started this thread to make a point. You weren't interested in discussion, feedback or anything that I might contribute to the conversation.

Interesting that it took 126 posts for you to finally get to the point. Perhaps, next time, you might open with that.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

In my view, redemption, justification and sanctification are subsumed under the concept of salvation. The one whom God is saving is like an arrow on a trajectory toward the target. None of those whom God is saving will fail to hit the target, as Paul says in Romans 8, "these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

 

[amigo de christo]

Is there another church?

Good question my friend . what a really good question .
YES there is another church indeed . And it sure aint the RCC , its the body of Christ , those who follow JESUS
and not the traditions of men .

 

[amigo de christo]

Today i offer unto all life . though i myself cannot give this life , I sure can point to HE WHO CAN . JESUS CHRIST .
Today is set before you life and death . JESUS or rome
JESUS or mens doctrines . Jesus or calvin , Jesus or etc . ONE IS LIFE the other is death .
CHOOSE ye this day the ONLY JESUS that can save . THE BIBLICAL ONE .