Once Saved Always Saved

[GracePeace]

I'm hoping for better things from you than this sort of thing.

Still hoping!



Projecting motivations of rebellion against God because someone has a different point of view?

?

1) I guess you would hope for better things from Paul, too, right?
He said "I wish those who are teaching you false doctrines you would cut their entire penises off--if circumcision is so great, then how much better would it be to cut the entire thing off!" Galatians 5:12.

2) To say I'm "projecting" actually means you're "guilty" of doing the same thing you say I'm doing--it is to impute a (bad, in this case) motive to me.
Yes, when God's Word is clear on something and someone rejects that and it's because they are trying to protect a theological system that is obstinacy and it is deplorable.

 

[GracePeace]

Don't be any of the first three kinds of soil in the Parable of the Sower in which the word gets sown and you'll be one that endures to the very end. I think one can safely sum up the Christian life as the striving to become the last kind of soil Jesus speaks of in that Parable. Not all Christians are there. In fact, few are.

Yep, and another error the Calvinists make is in assuming that peoples' "soils" (hearts) cannot change from good to bad soil... which is refuted in Hebrews 3:12-13 which teaches if a believer is sinning it can harden their heart and turn it into a wicked heart of unbelief. Clearly, then, the "soils" aren't fixed.

 

[marks]

1) I guess you would hope for better things from Paul, too, right?
He said "I wish those who are teaching you false doctrines you would cut their entire penises off!" to the Galatians.

That's not what he wrote.

OK, I've learned something from you.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Osas will make it will be hard for you to understand. But there is a clear difference between a life that does not end and whether or not you will always have the life that never ends. Generally speaking, Osaser's can only imagine and think of things within the Osas paradigm and mindset. They can't fathom there can be any other way to think about things, and so they are sure there can't be another way. I'm not saying they can't agree with other things. I'm saying it seems they literally can not see that there is any other possible, conceivable way to see things, let alone agree with them. It's a cultish, closed off, programmed mindset. It's scary.

The ignorance displayed here is astonishing.....if you disagree with the OSAS position, that is fine—- every man has the right to be wrong— but do you really have to MAKE UP stuff about them to try to bolster your false reasoning?
I know EXACTLY how my opponents think and feel and view Scripture—— I used to be one of them——then I learned Through much study how to “Properly Divide” the Word Of God.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What do you say was the parable about?

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It's about fruitfulness. Bringing the Word of God to fruition. That's what Christianity is all about. You get saved and bring the word of God, in whatever measure you have received it, to fruition. That's God's plan and purpose (Titus 2:14). That's the predetermined plan of God. People would do good to get on board by having faith in God and becoming a part of it. That's what the gospel is all about.

 

[Tong2020]

He gives the Spirit to be with the Church forever, but members of the Church are not fixed (just as, with the OT, members could be removed from and added to Israel).

<<<(just as, with the OT, members could be removed from and added to Israel)>>>

The NT sheds light regarding that OT matter concerning Israel. Paul tells us about Israel in Romans 9.

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[Corlove13]

What I gather from your response is that it was not. So, why did you say “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome” in answer to my question “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”

Please explain.

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Many thought keeping the law through their flesh was the source.....And it would have been true if they were Jesus.

But they did not have His Spirit yet to uphold what was Spiritual.

So it is no longer the source...because it was said to be weakened by the flesh[thier natural abilities]

So the Law is no longer the source by the flesh [in the sense they thought it was given for]
Because Jesus became the Source [way] of/to rightness.

Rightness is still the standard/the Law
But one was shown that it could not be upheld from man's flesh [natural abilities]

That indeed is why we are given the Spirit.

 

[GracePeace]

The righteous requirements of the law.

You don't think Christ came to destroy them, do you? All the righteous requirements of the law have to satisfied for a saved person.

I wonder : could "righteous requirement" refer to how some of the Law was not really God's will? Jesus teaches the Law contained concessions for evil men (the rabbis actually agree)--eg, Matthew 19 where he says "Moses gave you the certificate of divorce because of the hardness of your hearts, but it wasn't God's true will which was revealed in having made one man and one woman who were to become one flesh and not be separated." As for the rabbis, they cite the law about a man taking a woman who had been taken prisoner in battle--"this law was only given because of the evil inclination". I can cite one, too : "You can beat your slave to death as long as he lives for a couple days after the beating--then you're good. Only if he dies the same day are you in trouble." Jesus cites another which is not acceptable "pay your vows"--He says "BUT I SAY do not make any vows at all--just let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'.".

 

[GracePeace]

1 T1:14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
@Ferris Bueller
WOULD you explain that passage?

The Greek word often translated "faith" can also mean "faithfulness"--eg, "faith of Christ" really means "faithfulness of Christ", it doesn't mean "Jesus believed".

 

[Tong2020]

Examples:

"Cut off from his people" : Exodus 30:33, Exodus 30:38, Exodus 31:14
Then people may also join themselves to Israel--eg, Ruth, the great great grandmother of King David, who was a Moabitess.

The NT will shed light on what was apparently not clear in those OT matters.

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[GracePeace]

That's not what he wrote.

OK, I've learned something from you.

Much love!

Yes, actually, that is what he wrote.

Because the false teachers were trying to tell the Galatians to get circumcised and follow the Law, Paul is infuriated and says "they should emasculate themselves!" In other words, "If circumcision is so great, they should cut the entire thing off and that would be a lot better!"

 

[Taken]

Why would God exhort the fake believer to keep doing his fake believing?

It is not about a "FAKE BELIEVER", and I said nothing about a "fake believer".

Observe the Disciples.
Observe ANY beginner FIRST Hearing about God, about Christ Jesus.
They don't hear "A" Sermon and hoot and holler....I believe, I believe.

There is a TIME for BABY's to hear an learn ABOUT EVERYTHING.

There is a TIME for Children, Young adults, Adults, to Hear AND Learn.......ABOUT God,
ABOUT Christ Jesus....they Believe, they Doubt, they Wonder, they Deny, they Believe.....don't you SEE?

Remember the Disciples?
Remember Judas?

Recognize the DIFFERENCE?
All of the Disciples questioned and wondered.
SO WHAT?
11 .... did the ONE THING THAT MATTERED...
......THEY CONTINUED HEARING.....
......THAT IS A MILESTONE.....

THEY BECAME SAVED....BECAUSE, dispite of their unsuredness....THEY CONTINUED Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing......even WHEN THEY were "UNSURE"...!!!

Because they CONTINUED Believing....CONTINUED Following....CONTINUED
THEY BECAME ... CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO ....
MAKE A "HEARTFUL COMMITMENT" OF BELIEF to Jesus Himself.
ANOTHER MILESTONE....

Thereafter.....NEVER AGAIN DID THEY DOUBT.
Thereafter....THEY WERE KEPT IN BELIEF, BY THE POWER OF GOD.

A man who HAS NOT BECOME Converted...
IS WARNED to KEEP their BELIEF .... keep hearing, keep believing, keep hearing....

A man who IS Converted IS Kept IN BELIEF by the POWER OF GOD.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The ignorance displayed here is astonishing.....if you disagree with the OSAS position, that is fine—- every man has the right to be wrong— but do you really have to MAKE UP stuff about them to try to bolster your false reasoning?
I know EXACTLY how my opponents think and feel and view Scripture—— I used to be one of them——then I learned Through much study how to “Properly Divide” the Word Of God.....

Your teachings are an aberration in the church. I don't know where to put your kind. You don't hold to the original Osas teachings. Your teaching is a mix of 'grace is a license to sin', and 'once saved always saved', which, you probably don't know, used to be utterly separated from each other. The original Osas teaching NEVER excused living in sin and unbelief in the name of grace. It flat out said you were unsaved if you lived in sin and unbelief, and never were. I can tolerate a teaching like that. I can in no way tolerate your 'free grace' teaching. IMO, it is what destroys the church in these end times in accordance with prophecy.

 

[GracePeace]

It's about fruitfulness. Bringing the Word of God to fruition. That's what Christianity is all about. You get saved and bring the word of God, in whatever measure you have received it, to fruition. That's God's plan and purpose (Titus 2:14). That's the predetermined plan of God. People would do good to get on board by having faith in God and becoming a part of it. That's what the gospel is all about.

Yep, and the unfruitful, unproductive Ephesians 5:11 are condemned to hell/outer darkness Matthew 25:25.

 

[Corlove13]

As long as were talking about a believer here, the believer is already legally justified in the eyes of God (Hebrews 10:14). As long as he is believing, the blood of Christ covers his sin in the legal sense the instant it occurs (Hebrews 7:25). So we're talking about a Christian here, not the Christian who turns back in unbelief. He no longer has the blood of Christ to keep him legally justified before the Father (Hebrews 10:26). So condemnation doesn't always have to mean eternal damnation in the scriptures. As a believing Christian, you can be guilty of committing a sin and be condemned, without it meaning you are condemned to hell. That can only happen to the Christian whose sin is the result of turning away from Christ in a decision to not trust in, or care about the forgiveness of God he has received in Christ, anymore.

So brother Teacher can you shed light on the meaning of: if you confess your sins God is faithful and just to forgive you a d cleanse you of all unrighteousness? Is their a condition there and does forgiveness happen right away? Where does this apply?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, actually, that is what he wrote.

Because the false teachers were trying to tell the Galatians to get circumcised and follow the Law, Paul is infuriated and says "they should emasculate themselves!" In other words, "If circumcision is so great, they should cut the entire thing off and that would be a lot better!"

The point being, they would have to excuse themselves from the assembly (Deuteronomy 23:1). And so their evil influence in the church would cease. Even they could not argue that if they were emasculated they would be required by the law, the law that they say must be kept to the letter, to be put out of the assembly. Thus the meaning behind Paul's desire for them to be emasculated. It's not a middle school, below the belt attack on his adversaries. It's very well thought out. And why not, that word of scripture is inspired by God himself.

 

[GracePeace]

It is not about a "FAKE BELIEVER", and I said nothing about a "fake believer".

Observe the Disciples.
Observe ANY beginner FIRST Hearing about God, about Christ Jesus.
They don't hear "A" Sermon and hoot and holler....I believe, I believe.

There is a TIME for BABY's to hear an learn ABOUT EVERYTHING.

There is a TIME for Children, Young adults, Adults, to Hear AND Learn.......ABOUT God,
ABOUT Christ Jesus....they Believe, they Doubt, they Wonder, they Deny, they Believe.....don't you SEE?

Remember the Disciples?
Remember Judas?

Recognize the DIFFERENCE?
All of the Disciples questioned and wondered.
SO WHAT?
11 .... did the ONE THING THAT MATTERED...
......THEY CONTINUED HEARING.....
......THAT IS A MILESTONE.....

THEY BECAME SAVED....BECAUSE, dispite of their unsuredness....THEY CONTINUED Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing......even WHEN THEY were "UNSURE"...!!!

Because they CONTINUED Believing....CONTINUED Following....CONTINUED
THEY BECAME ... CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO ....
MAKE A "HEARTFUL COMMITMENT" OF BELIEF to Jesus Himself.
ANOTHER MILESTONE....

Thereafter.....NEVER AGAIN DID THEY DOUBT.
Thereafter....THEY WERE KEPT IN BELIEF, BY THE POWER OF GOD.

A man who HAS NOT BECOME Converted...
IS WARNED to KEEP their BELIEF .... keep hearing, keep believing, keep hearing....

A man who IS Converted IS Kept IN BELIEF by the POWER OF GOD.

That's not what that verse says. It says "kept by God's power through faith" but it nowhere says God's power continues keeping those who depart from the faith--and Hebrews 3:12-13 says the heart can become hardened and unbelieving on account of sinfulness, and Hebrews 10:36-39 says if we don't endure God will destroy us.

 

[GracePeace]

The point being, they would have to excuse themselves from the assembly (Deuteronomy 23:1). And so their evil influence in the church would cease. Even they could not argue that if they were emasculated they would be required by the law, the law that they say must be kept to the letter, to be put out of the assembly. Thus the meaning behind Paul's desire for them to be emasculated. It's not a middle school, below the belt attack on his adversaries. It's very well thought out. And why not, that word of scripture is inspired by God himself.

In the context, though--I don't think it should be ignored--this was a repudiation of the false Gospel of circumcision ("If I still preach circumcision"). "If circumcision really is so helpful, cutting the entire thing off would be much better [both are bad]!"

 

[GracePeace]

The point being, they would have to excuse themselves from the assembly (Deuteronomy 23:1). And so their evil influence in the church would cease. Even they could not argue that if they were emasculated they would be required by the law, the law that they say must be kept to the letter, to be put out of the assembly. Thus the meaning behind Paul's desire for them to be emasculated. It's not a middle school, below the belt attack on his adversaries. It's very well thought out. And why not, that word of scripture is inspired by God himself.

Actually, in Paul's mind, they were already "cut off" from the assembly.
This is another play on words, actually : when Paul says "severed from Christ", he's saying, "You severed your foreskin thinking you're bringing yourselves nearer to God, but you actually ended up severing yourselves from Christ!"

 

[Tong2020]

Among many other passages Hebrews 10:36-39 proves we can stop believing.

May I ask, why do you believe in God and Jesus Christ? What made you believe Him?

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