Once Saved Always Saved

[GracePeace]

LOL - no answer to an incomplete question...
That's right, sometimes ignorance should just be ignored along with trolls and your unfounded accusations.

I stand by every refutation of your ignorance I've made.

I'm not saying you Calvinists can't know God--on the contrary, many of you have great trust in God--but you're ignorant anyway. LOL

 

[GracePeace]

Lol......you sure have a way to complicate the things that God made simple.....The Bible That I read says that Jesus “ Took Away” the Sins Of the World.....All That is left for us to do is to “ cash in” on what has already been accomplished 2000 years ago.....Refusal to REST in what has already been done for us at the Cross leads to all kinds of confusion and complications....you have witnessed some of them here in this post....It”s “ Jesus Saves”. Period. That Simple.

OH MY GOSH THE "LIKE" OF THE BEAST!



LOL!

Indeed, Jesus saves!

 

[GracePeace]

LOL - no answer to an incomplete question...
That's right, sometimes ignorance should just be ignored along with trolls and your unfounded accusations.

"An" "incomplete question"?
1. I responded many times, not just once.

2. I wasn't asking questions, I was responding to you with answers. You have no answers to my answers.

 

[Riverwalker]

No, actually, the Greek shows that the "this is a gift" refers to the "salvation" not the "faith"--and, even in English, "not of works" would be redundant if "faith" was what "this is a gift" referred to. OBVIOUSLY "faith" and "works" are in completely different categories, so why would it be stated that "faith is a gift, it is not of works"? No, the salvation is a grace received through faith not of works.

And we disagree

 

[GracePeace]

And we disagree

You disagree with the Greek. Thanks for admitting you reject Scripture.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Every time an Osaser sees the word 'saved' they've already defined the word as 'irreversibly saved', so every verse they see that talks about a Christian being saved they use as proof that you can't lose your salvation. That's called 'circular reasoning'.

Jesus said that if one believed in Him, they “ALREADY HAD” Eternal Life and they could “ NEVER” come under Condemnation.....”

Some people try to say , even after hearing “ that”, that a person could Lose their Salvation .....That's called “ The Height Of Ignorance”......

Some, not me however, would say that some people essentially call Jesus a “Liar”..... or maybe He was just Confused and went too far with His Promise.....God forbid anybody would feel Assured in regard to their Salvation.....God wants to “ keep us guessing”—- mean , vengeful, old God that He is....right?

 

[GracePeace]

Jesus said that if one believed in Him, they “ALREADY HAD” Eternal Life and they could “ NEVER” come under Condemnation.....”

Some people try to say , even after hearing “ that”, that a person could Lose their Salvation .....That's called “ The Height Of Ignorance”......

Some, not me however, would say that some people essentially call Jesus a “Liar”..... or maybe He was just Confused and went too far with His Promise.....God forbid anybody would feel Assured in regard to their Salvation.....God wants to “ keep us guessing”—- mean , vengeful, old God that He is....right?

Yes, we do have eternal life--"and the life is in His Son--He who has the Son has the life" 1 John 5:11-12--but, again, those who fall away from the faith no longer have the Son 2 Corinthians 13:5 (and the Biblical and historical example for this actually occurring with believers is provided in Galatians 4:19). Also, those who are "unproductive" in the knowledge of the Lord are condemned to hell fire Matthew 25:26--you can know the Lord (eternal life John 17:3) and still be condemned to hell if you're not productive in that knowledge. How can you be productive? Good works according to Matthew 5 "let your light so shine that men may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven"--and evil works are, contrariwise, called "unfruitful" Ephesians 5:11. That's why the "lazy" (unproductive) servant was condemned--he was unproductive because he was engaged in the "unfruitful works of darkness" ("wicked lazy").

Yes, we have eternal life, but eternal life is also defined as a "repayment" and a "harvest", specifically for good works, which will be awarded at the eschatological judgment Romans 2:6-16 and Galatians 6:6-10. It's good that you believe a small fragment of Scripture; I recommend expanding your faith to include the rest of Scripture.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, we do have eternal life--"and the life is in His Son--He who has the Son has the life" 1 John 5:11-12--but, again, those who fall away from the faith no longer have the Son 2 Corinthians 13:5 (and the Biblical and historical example for this actually occurring with believers is provided in Galatians 4:19). Also, those who are "unproductive" in the knowledge of the Lord are condemned to hell fire Matthew 25:26--you can know the Lord (eternal life John 17:3) and still be condemned to hell if you're not productive in that knowledge. How can you be productive? Good works according to Matthew 5 "let your light so shine that men may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven"--and evil works are, contrariwise, called "unfruitful" Ephesians 5:11. That's why the "lazy" (unproductive) servant was condemned--he was unproductive because he was engaged in the "unfruitful works of darkness" ("wicked lazy").

Yes, we have eternal life, but eternal life is also defined as a "repayment" and a "harvest", specifically for good works, which will be awarded at the eschatological judgment Romans 2:6-16 and Galatians 6:6-10. It's good that you believe a small fragment of Scripture; I recommend expanding your faith to include the rest of Scripture.

.....and I would recommend that you stop TWISTING what little Scripture you are aware of... “Salvation is a GIFT— GIVEN to those who do not work for it.....”

 

[GracePeace]

.....and I would recommend that you stop TWISTING what little Scripture you are aware of... “Salvation is a GIFT— GIVEN to those who do not work for it.....”

1. I noticed you didn't explain which part I "twisted", you just made an empty assertion. Go ahead and substantiate your empty claim. I'll be waiting.

2. Yes, we are "saved" by the blood of the Lamb.
Who else was "saved" by the blood of the Lamb?
The Jews.
Our salvation was typed by their deliverance from Egypt.
Our baptism was typed by their passage through the Red Sea and the Cloud.
Our communion was typed by their eating angels' food and drinking from the Rock (Christ).
STILL, they fell under God's wrath because they sinned--the same will happen to us if we live sinfully.

Culled from the teaching of Saint Paul 1 Corinthians 10.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That's why it's so hard for me to believe Osas teaching. It has to jump through so many hoops to make the scriptures mean what they say they mean. That's why I say it has a cult like mentality about it.

Why, of course ! Boy, here’s a REAL Tough one... “Anybody that Asks to be Saved WILL BE SAVED!” How many “ hoops” are we “ jumping through” with just this ONE, CLEAR Verse?

 

[GracePeace]

And we disagree

For your enrichment, a treatment of the passage.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

1. Well said.

2. The phrase "eternal security" isn't in Scripture so any Tom Dick or Harry is free to assign any meaning thereto. I like to stick to the Word.

The phrase “ Repent from your Sins to be Saved” ain’t in there either.....so what?
Lets stick to the Word, Huh?

 

[GracePeace]

The phrase “ Repent from your Sins to be Saved” ain’t in there either.....so what?
Lets stick to the Word, Huh?

I don't think I've ever used the phrase "repent from your sins to be saved".

Yes, stick with the Word--I know, it's an unspeakable heresy isn't it?

 

[Corlove13]

Ok I just got something.....for the OSAS side
First does Jesus have the Ability to sin?
But his nature is God.....so He won't
And those who have a new nature
They will not go on to sin.....because of the seed that is in them......

Think about it.....

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.1 John 3:9

So from here i'll throw in this passage

2nd Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[GracePeace]

Ok I just got something.....for the OSAS side
First does Jesus have the Ability to sin?
But his nature is God.....so He won't
And those who have a new nature
They will not go on to sin.....because of the seed that is in them......

Think about it.....

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.1 John 3:9

So from here i'll throw in this passage

2nd Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

I would recommend keeping in mind the same verse says "if we deny Him He will deny us".
It is important to note that men may deny Him with their works--"they claim to know God but deny Him with their works"--hence why Revelation 3:1-6 states that those who have defiled their garments are unworthy, and will not be among those whom Christ will not blot out of the book of life (ie, they will be blotted out because they sinned against God Exodus 32:32-33), and they will not be confessed (thus they will be denied--there is no other option Matthew 10:32-33) before the Father and His angels.

Also, the Greek supposedly shows that it doesn't say "the one born of God cannot sin" but "the one born of God cannot go on sinning" (live in sin).

Also, there is no way John thought Christians didn't sin : he insisted that anyone who denied they sinned was a liar who didn't have God's Word in themselves 1 John 1:10, and that "if we walk in the Light... the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin". How is the man who says these things convinced that Christians don't sin? He himself sinned Revelation 22:8.

Also, Paul spent a lot of time rebuking the Corinthian Christians for sinning. Where does this idea that Christians cannot sin come from? LOL

 

[Tong2020]

Yet children can be disinherited and fail to inherit anything from their family.

Now read all the scriptures that speak of the inheritance of the saints, including inheriting everlasting life, inheriting the kingdom of Christ - then the warning by Paul to the brethren that no one committing the sins that he lists, shall inherit the kingdom.

And when the prodigal son realized the error of his ways, and repented and returned to his father, the father said of the errant son: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN.

Obviously the son didn’t die physically and resurrect - how then was he dead?

He was DEAD IN HIS SINS:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

He was a son, but he was A DEAD SON, dead in his sins, and on his way to hell, until he returned in repentance.

Being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance.

Is that not a misuse of the parable of the prodigal son?

When misused, many things could come out from the parable, things that were not being taught by it. Such as that being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance. And it is even obvious that such is wrong in that, the son was in fact given his part of inheritance.

Tong
R3139

 

[GracePeace]

You need to understand this doesn't really change the meaning of the passage.

Whoever is born of God doesn't go on sinning. Does not continue in sin. Doesn't keep sinning. It's simpler than "habitual practice" or like that. A false word here, a bristled thought there, here a jab, there a jab, a worry, an anger, an impatience, a covetousness, here a little, there a little.

Again, as Paul also wrote, Now it is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

Much love!

1. Paul had to rebuke the Corinthians for sinning--a lot! 1 Corinthians 5 says a man was "intimate" his father's wife. Hm... is that a sin? He also said the entire Church was implicated in it because they cheered it on--according to Romans 1, they were worthy of death for approving of what God detested... yet, here you are insisting...

2. I believe I've already addressed this, but Romans 7 (where Paul says "it is no longer I but sin") is pre-Christ--for example, Romans 7:5 "while we were in the flesh" is the life being described, but Christians are "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 8:9. There are a lot more details which support my view on this point--let me know if you require them. The long and the short of it is that people do sin, and when Paul was sinning, even though it was sin sinning, he really was sinning, as he was a slave to sin and worked sin's works--all lost sinners are held accountable for their sins and are condemned so they are actually sinning. Again, "it is no longer I but sin" is a statement about the life a lost sinner lives, not the life of a Christian. Christians aren't "slaves of sin", so the statement "it is not I but sin" doesn't apply. Adam wasn't a slave of sin, he chose to sin. The same must be true, to a great degree, for those of us who have been delivered from spiritual enslavement.

 

[GracePeace]

Is that not a misuse of the parable of the prodigal son?

When misused, many things could come out from the parable, things that were not being taught by it.

Yeah, like the Calvinist ignorance that the 99 sheep are "the foreknown, predestined, elect", and the one sheep that goes off on his own is also "the foreknown, predestined, elect", and so the "Good Shepherd" goes and finds him and recovers him because "Jesus can't lose any of the foreknown, predestined, elect"--in fact, Jesus is being sarcastic, and is saying "You Pharisees claim you aren't lost, and so you don't need to be found--fine, for the sake of argument, let's pretend you aren't lost (like the 99 sheep in My parable aren't lost) : that's the reason why I'm not celebrating over you, so stop being jealous and angry that you're not being celebrated (which just proves you aren't heavenly as you claim you are--heaven is rejoicing with Me over the ones who were lost and are now found, but you're jealous of your restored brother and you're angry at and condemning Me for My kindness!)."

 

[Curtis]

Is that not a misuse of the parable of the prodigal son?

When misused, many things could come out from the parable, things that were not being taught by it. Such as that being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance. And it is even obvious that such is wrong in that, the son was in fact given his part of inheritance.

Tong
R3139

Only after he came back to the father in repentance.

Before that he was dead in his sins.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
This is what I am concerned about. When one takes and teaches unfruitfulness as rewarded with condemnation to hell.

Unfruitful 'believers' are condemned to hell because, ultimately, unfruitfulness is the sign of unbelief.

...land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. Hebrews 6:8​

That's why the Bible exhorts us to make our calling and election sure by doing something that believers do. If you can't do what believers do then you'll be able to see that you need to get saved. And if you are saved, the exhortation to 'do' will spur you on toward the 'love and good deeds' that believers do and which gives them assurance they belong to the truth and ready to meet Christ when he returns.

So, in regard to true believers.....

...we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Hebrews 6:9-12
​

As you can see, this is not a passage about the continual doing of works to earn salvation, as most in the church instantly interpret 'works' to mean. It's about the continuation of faith to inherit salvation (vs.12). The faith that justifies and saves a person is the faith that works (Galatians 5:6b).

<<<Unfruitful 'believers' are condemned to hell because, ultimately, unfruitfulness is the sign of unbelief.>>>

Unfruitful believers aren’t condemned to hell because of that. Fruitfulness concerns having eternal rewards in heaven, not salvation, which the believer already was given in Christ through faith.

Their bearing fruit or not, is a matter not of unbelief but of the Word of God sowed in their hearts.

Hebrews 6:8 must be taken in the context of the point of the parable. What is burned are what have grown in the land, not the land.

In Hebrews 6:9-12, the things that have to do with or that accompany salvation obviously does not refer to salvation itself but the things thereof, the fruits. In v.12 what had been promised or the promises refers to the rewards, according to the fruits, the word through the believer, had produced.

So, we can see that misuse of the parable changes the message.

Tong
R3140