Acts 2:38 has been abandoned by Christianity

[CadyandZoe]

Acts 2:38 contends for repentance and baptism as requisites for forgiveness of sin.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Okay but what IS baptism. What does it mean? What does it represent?

 

[user]

I always took John 3:5 to be literal. When we are first born, we are born of water. The mother's water breaks and only then, for the first time in the baby's life, the baby is out of the water. John 3:5 talks about being born, not baptism.

When one hears the Gospel of Christ, and if faith is present, conception is made. That person is then in the spiritual womb and waiting to be born of spirit, Born Again...

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We were born of this word. It is seed, when mixed with faith becomes the beginning of life in the (spirit/church) womb. Then when ready, birthed forth being Born Again. Born of Spirit.

Jesus said we MUST be born of water and Spirit or we can not enter the kingdom.

If we apply the gospel of Christ, we will find Life. The gospel is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus, which is applied in the salvation application in the book of Acts...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent = Death
Water Baptism = Burial
Receive Holy Spirit = Resurrection

 

[Truther]

Okay then, what is the meaning of Baptism?

Burial....

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

 

[CadyandZoe]

Burial....

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Try again. Baptism doesn't mean "burial." Notice what Paul says. We were baptized "into Jesus Christ". He doesn't say, "We were baptized into water."

 

[Daniel Veler]

When you incorporate water baptism as part of salvation what your really saying is that Christ was not enough to get the job done. Water baptism was a sign for Israel because the required a sign. It is written there is but one God, one Christ and one baptism. That baptism was that of the Holy Spirit. John told the Jews I indeed baptize you with water, the sign, but he who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. This is why Paul told the people I thank God I Baptize no other then the ones he mentioned. Now don’t you think Paul at that time would have pushed water baptism?

 

[user]

Try again. Baptism doesn't mean "burial." Notice what Paul says. We were baptized "into Jesus Christ". He doesn't say, "We were baptized into water."

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Truther]

Try again. Baptism doesn't mean "burial." Notice what Paul says. We were baptized "into Jesus Christ". He doesn't say, "We were baptized into water."

Was he saying we are Spirit baptized into Christ's death?

Does it say we are buried with Jesus in Spirit baptism?

Did the Holy Ghost bury us in Christ?

 

[Truther]

When you incorporate water baptism as part of salvation what your really saying is that Christ was not enough to get the job done. Water baptism was a sign for Israel because the required a sign. It is written there is but one God, one Christ and one baptism. That baptism was that of the Holy Spirit. John told the Jews I indeed baptize you with water, the sign, but he who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. This is why Paul told the people I thank God I Baptize no other then the ones he mentioned. Now don’t you think Paul at that time would have pushed water baptism?

Water baptism is the identifier with the Christ that got the job done.

Was water baptism in Acts 10 a sign for Israel?

Yes, a sign to the Jews that gentiles must also be baptized as they were for the remission of their sins in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Was he saying we are Spirit baptized into Christ's death?

Does it say we are buried with Jesus in Spirit baptism?

Did the Holy Ghost bury us in Christ?

Was Paul speaking literally? No. It's a metaphor. In that passage, Paul is answering an objection to the gospel, which is salvation by grace and apart from works of the law. His Jewish contemporaries would argue that Paul has removed all incentive for living in righteousness. He argues that those who were baptized into Christ, personally identify with the death of Christ. Namely, that we deserve the punishment Christ suffered. So why would we continue in sin, seeing that we have repudiated it.

 

[Jlentz]

Water baptism saves no one. The thief on the cross was not baptized with water.
Faith in Christ and acceptance of his blood atonement is what saves . We are saved by Grace not water. As far as Holy Ghost, that happens at conversion.

 

[Truther]

Was Paul speaking literally? No. It's a metaphor. In that passage, Paul is answering an objection to the gospel, which is salvation by grace and apart from works of the law. His Jewish contemporaries would argue that Paul has removed all incentive for living in righteousness. He argues that those who were baptized into Christ, personally identify with the death of Christ. Namely, that we deserve the punishment Christ suffered. So why would we continue in sin, seeing that we have repudiated it.

So, we are not actually buried with Christ in baptism after all?

We are not actually baptized into his death after all?

Paul made that stuff up?

Did you ask him if he made it up, or assume he did?

Maybe the death of Christ did not actually remit sins but was a metaphor instead of a sign instead?

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, we are not actually buried with Christ in baptism after all?

We are not actually baptized into his death after all?

Paul made that stuff up?

Did you ask him if he made it up, or assume he did?

Maybe the death of Christ did not actually remit sins but was a metaphor instead of a sign instead?

Do you believe we are literally buried? Really?

 

[Truther]

Do you believe we are literally buried? Really?

In the eyes is God, yes.

Our carnal man(nature) is crucified and buried.

He was never supposed to be lying around on the surface.

This is the definition of the Spirit led life.

The Lord does not lead our carnal man, but our spirit.

Our crucified carnal man just does what the saved spirit man tells it to do.

Our carnal man is not saved and must die, both now and at our last breath , but our spirit man is saved and it lives forever.

....Only if we obey Acts 2:38 and walk in the Spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In the eyes is God, yes.

Our carnal man(nature) is crucified and buried.

He was never supposed to be lying around on the surface.

This is the definition of the Spirit led life.

The Lord does not lead our carnal man, but our spirit.

Our crucified carnal man just does what the saved spirit man tells it to do.

Our carnal man is not saved and must die, both now and at our last breath , but our spirit man is saved and it lives forever.

....Only if we obey Acts 2:38 and walk in the Spirit.

In my view, Paul isn't describing a reality that only takes place in the mind of God. He has employed the rite of baptism in a metaphor to indicate the attitudes and beliefs of those who have become disciples of Jesus. In order to see his point, we need to understand what baptism meant to his generation.

Your thread isn't asking whether or not someone should be baptized. I, for one, encourage people to get baptized and I created a video to defend it. Nonetheless, your question is why churches today are not baptizing people anymore, and to answer that question I observe that the ritual of baptism no longer has the meaning it did in Paul's day. Baptism today, in some churches, has a completely different meaning than the Biblical meaning of Paul's day. And for this reason, I can understand why some people and some churches have stopped doing it.

I was trying to get you to understand the Biblical meaning of baptism, which is not a mystical death-burial-and-resurrection experience. Paul isn't making that claim and he isn't teaching that idea.

Now, did Peter exhort Israel to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? Yes. But what did he mean by that? What was the cultural significance of being baptized in water in the name of someone? How can we know what ideas were implied or suggested by the term "baptism" during Peter's time? To answer that question, I took you to acts 19, wherein we gain a window into the implied significance of water baptism from Paul's conversation with several of John's disciples. In that context we come to understand that when someone is "baptized into" John, he is being immersed in John's teaching. Those who were water baptized by John, became John's disciples, dedicating themselves to both learn and live by his teachings.

Now that we have a better understanding of what baptism actually meant and what it implied, we are in a good place to understand what Peter meant by his exhortation to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ, believing in him, trusting him, learning from him, and walking according to his teaching is the sum and substance of Peter's exhortation. If this is the reason why someone wants to be water baptized, then I say go for it. But if water baptism means something other than that to you, then I say your wasting your time.

____________
p.s. I'm not talking about you specifically. I meant "whoever".

 

[Truther]

In my view, Paul isn't describing a reality that only takes place in the mind of God. He has employed the rite of baptism in a metaphor to indicate the attitudes and beliefs of those who have become disciples of Jesus. In order to see his point, we need to understand what baptism meant to his generation.

Your thread isn't asking whether or not someone should be baptized. I, for one, encourage people to get baptized and I created a video to defend it. Nonetheless, your question is why churches today are not baptizing people anymore, and to answer that question I observe that the ritual of baptism no longer has the meaning it did in Paul's day. Baptism today, in some churches, has a completely different meaning than the Biblical meaning of Paul's day. And for this reason, I can understand why some people and some churches have stopped doing it.

I was trying to get you to understand the Biblical meaning of baptism, which is not a mystical death-burial-and-resurrection experience. Paul isn't making that claim and he isn't teaching that idea.

Now, did Peter exhort Israel to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? Yes. But what did he mean by that? What was the cultural significance of being baptized in water in the name of someone? How can we know what ideas were implied or suggested by the term "baptism" during Peter's time? To answer that question, I took you to acts 19, wherein we gain a window into the implied significance of water baptism from Paul's conversation with several of John's disciples. In that context we come to understand that when someone is "baptized into" John, he is being immersed in John's teaching. Those who were water baptized by John, became John's disciples, dedicating themselves to both learn and live by his teachings.

Now that we have a better understanding of what baptism actually meant and what it implied, we are in a good place to understand what Peter meant by his exhortation to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ, believing in him, trusting him, learning from him, and walking according to his teaching is the sum and substance of Peter's exhortation. If this is the reason why someone wants to be water baptized, then I say go for it. But if water baptism means something other than that to you, then I say your wasting your time.

____________
p.s. I'm not talking about you specifically. I meant "whoever".

That is a classic seminarian white washing of scripture.

Romans 6 is real, not a metaphor.

You think it says this...

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in METAPHORIC sin, that METAPHORIC grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are METAPHORICALLY dead to METAPHORIC sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were METAPHORICALLY baptized into Jesus Christ were METAPHORICALLY baptized into his METAPHORIC death?

4 Therefore we are METAPHORICALLY buried with him by METAPHORIC baptism into METAPHORIC death: that like as Christ was METAPHORICALLY raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should METAPHORICALLY walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been METAPHORICALLY planted together in the likeness of his METAPHORIC death, we shall be also in the likeness of his METAPHORIC resurrection:...


You seminary folks are silly.

 

[Truther]

Both metaphor and hyperbole are akin to lying in saying something that is strictly speaking false (i.e., exhibits no world–word fit) and thus have deceptive potential. ... Depending on the forms and contexts chosen, the distinction between hyperbole/metaphor and lying might be blurred or sharpened.

Lying, Metaphor, and Hyperbole - Oxford Handbooks
https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com › vie

 

[user]

In my view, Paul isn't describing a reality that only takes place in the mind of God. He has employed the rite of baptism in a metaphor to indicate the attitudes and beliefs of those who have become disciples of Jesus. In order to see his point, we need to understand what baptism meant to his generation.

Your thread isn't asking whether or not someone should be baptized. I, for one, encourage people to get baptized and I created a video to defend it. Nonetheless, your question is why churches today are not baptizing people anymore, and to answer that question I observe that the ritual of baptism no longer has the meaning it did in Paul's day. Baptism today, in some churches, has a completely different meaning than the Biblical meaning of Paul's day. And for this reason, I can understand why some people and some churches have stopped doing it.

I was trying to get you to understand the Biblical meaning of baptism, which is not a mystical death-burial-and-resurrection experience. Paul isn't making that claim and he isn't teaching that idea.

Now, did Peter exhort Israel to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? Yes. But what did he mean by that? What was the cultural significance of being baptized in water in the name of someone? How can we know what ideas were implied or suggested by the term "baptism" during Peter's time? To answer that question, I took you to acts 19, wherein we gain a window into the implied significance of water baptism from Paul's conversation with several of John's disciples. In that context we come to understand that when someone is "baptized into" John, he is being immersed in John's teaching. Those who were water baptized by John, became John's disciples, dedicating themselves to both learn and live by his teachings.

Now that we have a better understanding of what baptism actually meant and what it implied, we are in a good place to understand what Peter meant by his exhortation to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ, believing in him, trusting him, learning from him, and walking according to his teaching is the sum and substance of Peter's exhortation. If this is the reason why someone wants to be water baptized, then I say go for it. But if water baptism means something other than that to you, then I say your wasting your time.

____________
p.s. I'm not talking about you specifically. I meant "whoever".

I agree, Baptism in the name of Jesus means to be immersed in the teaching of...(but not strictly/only).

Now, within the "teaching of Jesus Christ" - water baptism is preached...

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Note: That verse does not say, behold here is water; what doth hinder me to be to be immersed in the teaching of?

Here is another account of preaching "Jesus" and water baptism is preached...

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The question is, why is water baptism so important?...
Jesus said, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

Peter said, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And also Ananias said to Paul, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[Truther]

And also Ananias said to Paul, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Thank you.

This is very clear per the definition of what remission of sins is.

 

[Pearl]

Yes, baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to be precise.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I can say from my own experience and that of friends that we can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before being baptised. I spoke in tongues years before I got baptised.

 

[Truther]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I can say from my own experience and that of friends that we can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before being baptised. I spoke in tongues years before I got baptised.

Amen. The Spirit does not remit sins because the Spirit is not our burial, but rather, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is.

The Spirit is given to lead us to the truth and confirm us per our subsequent Acts 2:38 salvation.