Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

kcnalp said: ↑
What are the odds that none of these who did all those things in the Name of Jesus were never saved?

Well, the OSAS crowd invoked this odd ex-post facto fallacy that if someone saved later sins/turns from Christ, they were not ‘really’ saved to begin with.

Odds?

Their boasting of what they have done strongly indicated they never were. It strongly indicates that they too never knew Christ. It strongly indicates they knew a different gospel and so a different Jesus.

Tong
R3193

 

[Tong2020]

The whole subject of God knowing you, and you knowing God is a dicey one. The Galatians did not know God, yet they were saved. Sometimes 'knowing' is in reference to being saved. Sometimes it's in reference to having a mature relationship. And this is why we even have an Osas debate to even contend with. But if everyone would just focus on the Bible's exhortation to keep believing we wouldn't have to deal with the divisive contentions of the Osas debate brought into the church.

Salvation starts with God, not from us. Our knowing God is not to be mistaken as that makes us deserving of His salvation. God knew us first. And those whom He foreknew, them He saves. Only when one is saved that he comes to knowing God. That is what God wanted for them whom He saves, to know Him, not that He will save them if they do, but that is actually the start of their experience of the eternal life that He gives to them.

Tong
R3194

 

[Wrangler]

Their boasting of what they have done strongly indicated they never were.

No boasting at all. I guess this means it ‘strongly indicates’ OSAS is ridiculous.

 

[Tong2020]

They don't understand the reason why He says "I never knew you" or why John says "they were never of us". Once Saved Always Saved

That “I NEVER knew you” isn’t hard to understand. There wasn’t a time that they were know by Jesus.

That “they were not of us” isn’t hard to understand. They were not members together with them of the body of Christ.

Tong
R3195

 

[Wrangler]

Our knowing God is not to be mistaken as that makes us deserving of His salvation.

Nonsense. He offers salvation. No reason we cannot take it, then leave it. Hence, Romans 6
12 Don’t invite that insufferable tyrant of sin back into your mortal body so you won’t become obedient to its destructive desires. 13 Don’t offer your bodily members to sin’s service as tools of wickedness; instead, offer your body to God as those who are alive from the dead, and devote the parts of your body to God as tools for justice and goodness in this world. 14 For sin is no longer a tyrant over you; indeed you are under grace and not the law.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is not what scriptures says.

It is EXACTLY what Scripture says. ‘Work’ in the culture of the Apostles is not how it is taken in today’s culture. To clarify, is why I differentiate between external and internal.

EXACTLY? Nope. Far from it. Scriptures clearly said, not by works. And that regardless it be internal or external works. It is not by works.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Now we should know and not forget that we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ.

Right. This faith is precisely an example of the kind of internal work that is necessary. A pre-requisite to being saved is to slay the biggest idol in the world, ones own ego! Before one can be saved, one has to do the internal work of overcoming Original Sin in abandoning EQUALITY with God or that one is a god at all.

Christians do a major disservice in reaching out in denying this HUGE pre-requisite work.

You may regard your faith as internal work. But it is not. Faith is something that comes from God. It is grace given by God. It is God who works in the inside of the man unto his conversion.

Tong
R3196

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Was Paul talking there of individuals or of Israel in Romans 11? Nope. To take that as talking about individuals is a misuse of scriptures.

Tong
R3190

How does a nation fear and not be arrogant?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...works shows what faith one have.

And so it is that works are the basis upon which Jesus allows entry into the kingdom at the end of the age. That's not a works gospel. Osas is only able to comprehend that as a works gospel. Osas has no capacity to see it any other way, even though that other way of seeing does in fact exist.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Our knowing God is not to be mistaken as that makes us deserving of His salvation.

I never said it was.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Except the opponents do not accept this categorization. Those in the NOSAS have never said anything like this. We are saved by faith in the grace of Jesus and have a burden to keep it that way by actually doing the will of God, the Father in Heaven. This is the meaning of Matthew 7:21.

The analogy I use is that we are drowning and the trustworthy Savior throws us a life preserver. It is our responsibility to:

1. take hold of it
2. and keep holding onto it.

Otherwise, it is OSAS that is the ultimate ear tickling doctrine - license to sin.

The fact that my opponents can not “ imagine” Freedom in Christ , can not “imagine” being TOTALLY FORGIVEN by the Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ and the Finished Work Of The Cross without turning it in to something to try to take advantage of , says more about “THEIR” Crowd than it does mine....Yiu need to get your minds “ out of the Gutter”........

Knowing I can Sin yet find “ No More Condemnation” for doing so, is my impetus to do my best to refrain from sin . I am Obedient and my Obedience is spurred by my Love and Gratitude for the Grace that insures my TotalForgiveness no matter how many times I “ stumble” ( as James admitted ) or “ fall into a Sin” that “ Does SO EASILY beset is” ( as Peter and Paul wrote about....)

The Grace That Saves a Soul has not been extended to some in here....that’s why they never understand it.....they don't realize its Power to Transform a Sinner .....they don’t understand how it is God’s System to take care of almost everything that matters.....they give “ lip service” to grace but NOT FOR A SECOND would they Trust it......a shame that.....

I am like Paul—— I don’t “ hold back God’s Grace”......so get off of the ....Er, ah.....posteriors Of Those Of us that partake of “Strong Meat” and are Living in Freedom and would NEVER try to take it as a “ License to Sin”.......

Once again, Those of you too immature to understand God’s Ways ( Grace Plus Nothing) need to get your Minds out of the Gutter......you only reveal your ignorance and Carnality....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

no matter how many times I “ stumble” ( as James admitted ) or “ fall into a Sin” that “ Does SO EASILY beset is” ( as Peter and Paul wrote about....)

What's the difference between your sinning and the sinning of the person we are not to fellowship with in 1 Corinthians 5?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Once again, Those of you too immature to understand God’s Ways ( Grace Plus Nothing)

Grace plus nothing for justification is a wonderful gospel truth, but it's milk knowledge, not solid food.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The fact that my opponents can not “ imagine” Freedom in Christ...

You do know that freedom in Christ means freedom from sin, not freedom to sin, right?

 

[Wrangler]

You may regard your faith as internal work. But it is not. Faith is something that comes from God. It is grace given by God.

One way to know faith is from us is people are asked to walk in faith and to keep their faith. We have to start the process in faith. Faith established grace. Romans 4:16.

 

[Wrangler]

Once again, Those of you too immature to understand God’s Ways

Matthew 7:21 is easy to understand; one must act to enter heaven and not just pay lip service.

 

[amigo de christo]

If you really are 'Son' conscious and not 'Sin' conscious you'll look and act like the Son. People who have seen God look like Jesus. Doesn't Andrew Farley teach this?

as said john . My children if we say He abides in us and we in Him then we WALK LIKE HE DID . very good point my friend . very good .
John knew JESUS . Remember what JESUS told the folks , even those he healed . HE said now GO and Sin no more .
Paul said , let all who name the name of JESUS depart from iniquity. Sounds the same to me .
Just as he said let it not Once be named among you as becometh saints . They sure sounded a lot like JESUS .
Sure did . My question is , how come so many leaders and people dont even sound remotely close to this when they speak of sin .

 

[Wrangler]

Remember what JESUS told the folks , even those he healed . HE said now GO and Sin no more .

Great point! According to OSAS, Jesus was just wasting his breath since there is no consequence to sin once one is saved!

 

[GracePeace]

If you really are 'Son' conscious and not 'Sin' conscious you'll look and act like the Son. People who have seen God look like Jesus. Doesn't Andrew Farley teach this?

If they're really following Paul's doctrine they should talk like Paul. Some of then don't--they speak of the freedom TO sin instead of the freedom FROM sin. This is what they understand "grace" to be. "I will sin and God will have 'grace'". No, "grace" is the method of service, so that you actually do good. Paul speaks of fulfilling the righteous requirement of the Law, they call him a heretic teaching works-righeousness.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Man BB , most folks dont want to hear they have to actually be HOLY . THEY had rather hear
a message that says hey you can sin and still have JESUS . You are preaching the ear tickling message my friend .
Folks want to FEEL SAVED and still have their sin . Ponder on that one .
Most folks hate being told , BE HOLY , DONT SIN , Follow GOD . Continue to the end .
This generation is huge on wanting a god , any god , any version of god , so long as they can have they sin too . Ponder on that one .
THEN you will see who has been preaching the ear tickling message all along . VERSUS the BE YE HOLY FOR HE IS HOLY MESSAGE .

Holiness ? I got better than that......At the Cross , Jesus took all of my Sins upon Himself and in turn I got His Perfection....Our Personal “Holiness” is as big a joke as our “ Righteousness”...

The only “ Holiness” we have is that which was “IMPUTED” to us —- just as our “ Righteousness” is Imputed....

How “Holy” were you the last time you had an impure thought? If you Lie by claiming that you have no impure thoughts.....that ain’t “ Holy” Behavior either.....

 

[GracePeace]

Holiness ? I got better than that......At the Cross , Jesus took all of my Sins upon Himself and in turn I got His Perfection....Our Personal “Holiness” is as big a joke as our “ Righteousness”...

The only “ Holiness” we have is that which was “IMPUTED” to us —- just as our “ Righteousness” is Imputed....

How “Holy” were you the last time you had an impure thought? If you Lie by claiming that you have no impure thoughts.....that ain’t “ Holy” Behavior either.....

The righteousness imputed by faith is "being forgiven" Romans 4:6-8

That's not about service today.