Does the Jews and Israel exist?
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Timtofly
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They are part of the church. The church has all the authority from Christ.
Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people
The nature of the church is authority in hierarchy producing order!
Unity of the truth (thee faith) and the spirit!
Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is the central authority.
Hebrews 13:7 applies to the local church. That is as far as authority should go. Local churches. Revelation was given to 7 local churches. There are more local churches besides those 7. But local churches are the extent of authority. The church is found throughout the earth, locally. The Holy Spirit is the central authority.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
Christ is the foundation of the church. The Church is built upon Christ. No Man can lay that foundation as you claim.
teamventure
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No.
It’s easy to disprove replacement theology - Just read Romans 11 and insert CHURCH every time it says Israel, and it’s obvious that RT is wrong.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(thinking)
(the original rosetta stone............listed the english language as one of the archaic languages, when they saw the stone, they didn't want anyone else to make the association)
(when they began to break the stone to hide their discovery...........another stone popped out, what history records about this stone, is in the tale of joseph smith, which history calls a pillow stone or chintamani stone...........and one being or another popped out of the stone and gave a prophecy of doom, because the lord is holy and justified)
(what they said that history may not record, they said that, when jesus body was placed into the tomb, and the tomb was sealed, they heard an explosion, and the tomb was broken............it was at that time, when they came to reseal the tomb of jesus..........they had realized that many stones were missing...............it is these original stones from the tomb of jesus that re-appear from time to time, in man's destruction of testimony generationally, that foretell doom, and these stones always give testimony of the the events of the lord and jerusalem in that day)
This is what people believe, regarding the subject.
People believe that unless god addresses jerusalem or the jews specifically, and cast them down in their sin, then, its not really god's will or god's timetable to do this or that, and nothing clean will come of anything in the matter.
This is because when they saw jesus rise, and when they saw holes in his body, the saw also stones, and it is that prophecy, that appears to tie, the day of judgment and the armageddon........together. (which is to say that is a work the lord will either perform or has voiced, and therefore, it is not a work for mankind to perform or is perhaps not at all profitable).
(if it is an angel that is disputing the lord's body, or, as the language of revelation talks about a "1000 year kingdom", then, God is not specifically looking for a work for mankind to perform............God sets things into motion, and then, God completes the action................whatever action is tied to covid-19 to the earth's propensity to field, and to trigger that argument, just has not happened) (this only means that, its not a work for humanity to performed, to complete said arguments, and to restore jerusalem)
(the original rosetta stone............listed the english language as one of the archaic languages, when they saw the stone, they didn't want anyone else to make the association)
(when they began to break the stone to hide their discovery...........another stone popped out, what history records about this stone, is in the tale of joseph smith, which history calls a pillow stone or chintamani stone...........and one being or another popped out of the stone and gave a prophecy of doom, because the lord is holy and justified)
(what they said that history may not record, they said that, when jesus body was placed into the tomb, and the tomb was sealed, they heard an explosion, and the tomb was broken............it was at that time, when they came to reseal the tomb of jesus..........they had realized that many stones were missing...............it is these original stones from the tomb of jesus that re-appear from time to time, in man's destruction of testimony generationally, that foretell doom, and these stones always give testimony of the the events of the lord and jerusalem in that day)
This is what people believe, regarding the subject.
People believe that unless god addresses jerusalem or the jews specifically, and cast them down in their sin, then, its not really god's will or god's timetable to do this or that, and nothing clean will come of anything in the matter.
This is because when they saw jesus rise, and when they saw holes in his body, the saw also stones, and it is that prophecy, that appears to tie, the day of judgment and the armageddon........together. (which is to say that is a work the lord will either perform or has voiced, and therefore, it is not a work for mankind to perform or is perhaps not at all profitable).
(if it is an angel that is disputing the lord's body, or, as the language of revelation talks about a "1000 year kingdom", then, God is not specifically looking for a work for mankind to perform............God sets things into motion, and then, God completes the action................whatever action is tied to covid-19 to the earth's propensity to field, and to trigger that argument, just has not happened) (this only means that, its not a work for humanity to performed, to complete said arguments, and to restore jerusalem)
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Keraz
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The Circumcision:
Take a look at who Paul said the true Israelites were:
Romans 2:28-29 He is not a Jew, [a member of the Israel of God] who is one outwardly; because of circumcision, which is displayed in the flesh: but he is an Israelite who is circumcision is of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter [or outward purported lineage], whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Speaking to the New Covenant church, Colossians 2:11 he said, You are circumcised with the circumcision of Christ.
Christians are now the chosen and blessed Israelites, one people: the nation, from every nation and language, who have faith in God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 21:43
Paul received his understanding in all this by revelation from God, His secret purpose made known: Ephesians 3:1-6, Galatians 1:12.
Paul says: You, brethren should not be ignorant of this mystery. Romans 11:25
How often have people been asked to pray for the peace of Israel & Jerusalem? How often have you heard the contradiction of Jesus’ offer of universal salvation; that you, even though you are a Christian, are a Gentile and that the ethnic Jew is still the chosen of God? This false teaching is promoted by those who believe in a rapture to heaven of the Church, while ethnic Israel remains to undergo purification on earth. This pretentious idea is not supported by scripture.
Zechariah 12:1-14 describes the scene at the Return of Jesus, where a remnant of Judah will finally find their strength in the Lord and mourn for Him that they pierced.
The New Testament is all about God making a Way for a nation of Spiritual Israelites; Christians that would bring forth fruit consistent with their faithfulness and trust in God. Galatians 5:22-25 A fruitful people of God. Matthew 21:43
Many of the prophets had said that if Judah rejected God and the One He sent to them, she would be pulled up by the roots and so she was: Luke 21:20-24, in 70 AD and will be again in the near future: Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14
Jesus is declared to be the new tree of life and "the branches" consist of a newly chosen people, called from every nation, John 15:1-17, to form the Christian Israel of God! Galatians 6:16 Ethnic Israelis are "natural branches" and have been broken off the ‘Olive Tree’, that Jesus is the root and sustainer of. Only be becoming Christian, can they be reattached to the Tree of Life.
The Christian church is the circumcision. Circumcision; the Marked and set aside ones, also known as Nazarenes.
Paul said to the gentile church: Brethren: We are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11
Ephesians 2:11-18 also contrasts the saved and the unsaved, Christian believers and every other non-Christian person in the world.
Take a look at who Paul said the true Israelites were:
Romans 2:28-29 He is not a Jew, [a member of the Israel of God] who is one outwardly; because of circumcision, which is displayed in the flesh: but he is an Israelite who is circumcision is of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter [or outward purported lineage], whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Speaking to the New Covenant church, Colossians 2:11 he said, You are circumcised with the circumcision of Christ.
Christians are now the chosen and blessed Israelites, one people: the nation, from every nation and language, who have faith in God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 21:43
Paul received his understanding in all this by revelation from God, His secret purpose made known: Ephesians 3:1-6, Galatians 1:12.
Paul says: You, brethren should not be ignorant of this mystery. Romans 11:25
How often have people been asked to pray for the peace of Israel & Jerusalem? How often have you heard the contradiction of Jesus’ offer of universal salvation; that you, even though you are a Christian, are a Gentile and that the ethnic Jew is still the chosen of God? This false teaching is promoted by those who believe in a rapture to heaven of the Church, while ethnic Israel remains to undergo purification on earth. This pretentious idea is not supported by scripture.
Zechariah 12:1-14 describes the scene at the Return of Jesus, where a remnant of Judah will finally find their strength in the Lord and mourn for Him that they pierced.
The New Testament is all about God making a Way for a nation of Spiritual Israelites; Christians that would bring forth fruit consistent with their faithfulness and trust in God. Galatians 5:22-25 A fruitful people of God. Matthew 21:43
Many of the prophets had said that if Judah rejected God and the One He sent to them, she would be pulled up by the roots and so she was: Luke 21:20-24, in 70 AD and will be again in the near future: Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14
Jesus is declared to be the new tree of life and "the branches" consist of a newly chosen people, called from every nation, John 15:1-17, to form the Christian Israel of God! Galatians 6:16 Ethnic Israelis are "natural branches" and have been broken off the ‘Olive Tree’, that Jesus is the root and sustainer of. Only be becoming Christian, can they be reattached to the Tree of Life.
The Christian church is the circumcision. Circumcision; the Marked and set aside ones, also known as Nazarenes.
Paul said to the gentile church: Brethren: We are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11
Ephesians 2:11-18 also contrasts the saved and the unsaved, Christian believers and every other non-Christian person in the world.
Try as you might, you can’t escape the fact that Gods new covenant that Jesus is mediator of, is with the House of Israel and the house of Judah, and that gentiles have to be grafted in it by faith.
Or do you think you’re also spiritual Judah a# well as Spiritual Israel?
tabletalk
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Do you sympathize with the Holocaust? Your posts read a lot like you would, unfortunately.
"…sympathize with the Holocaust?"
"Let my accusers be clothed with shame, And let them cover themselves with their own disgrace as with a mantle." (Psalms 109:29)
Keraz
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I don't need to try hard, the Bible is clear that we Christians are the Israelites of God. The Overcomers for Him.
I provided 15 scriptures in #312, to prove that Christians are now the Chosen people of God. John 15:14-19, 1 Peter 2:9-10
Of course Christians have been grafted into the new covenant by faith in the Jewish Messiah Yeshua which is completely irrelevant to the fact that Jerusalem remains Gods chosen city forever, the city He said He put His name in for forever, and where He in fact will dwell forever, Zechariah 14:16 to the end of the chapter, Cross reference in Revelation 21.
Salvation is of the Jews: the messiah is Jewish, and came only to the House of Israel, and salvation was only opened up to the gentiles to make Israel jealous after all but an elect remnant rejected Him.
To whit:
Rom 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
This passage in modern English makes it crystal clear they remain Gods chosen people::
Rom 11:28 The people of Israel are treated as God's enemies, so that the good news can come to you Gentiles. But they are still the chosen ones, and God loves them because of their famous ancestors.
Rom 11:29 God doesn't take back the gifts he has given or forget about the people he has chosen.
Keraz
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What you don't do is to differentiate between Judah and Israel. They separated after Solomon and remain separate now.
Judah, the Jewish people are a visible entity and Israel has been lost to human knowledge, but not to God's. Amos 9:9
That we Christians are the House of Israel, is proved by how Jesus said He was sent only to the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24
He was successful and His disciples continue this task today.
God's gifts and Promises belong to the Christians, not to the peoples who reject Jesus. Their fate is: Matthew 8:12
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You can differentiate all you want.
God doesn’t differentiate them - Jeremiah 31 says the new covenant is with both HOUSES of Israel AND Judah.
Now what ya got to say?
Who do I believe, you, or scripture that’s too clear to obfuscate by replacement theology?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
And none of those negate the clear statement by Paul in Romans 11, Jeremiah 31, and Hebrews 8 and Zechariah 14
Where will God live for all eternity? Jerusalem.
Where.does Jesus return to? Mount Olive, in Jerusalem.
What does Jesus do when He returns? Destroys the Muslim armies destroying Jerusalem.
What city did God say will have His name forever? Jerusalem.
Who is the new covenant with? The Houses of Judah and Israel.
They will never stop being Gods chosen people, we just get grafted in to Israel’s olive tree to make Israel jealous, said Paul.
Paul wrote, has God cast off HIS PEOPLE?
He answers, NO, He has not cast out Israel.
Thus they remain HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, whether you will admit it, or not
He did not ask if God cast out Israel, but if God cast off HIS PEOPLE, ISRAEL.
Really all that’s needed is to see the irrefutable fact that the new covenant remains with both Houses of Israel and Judah, to refute replacement theology completely.
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