The First Resurrection

[BroRando]

Rapture is not in the Bible but this is: "During that time {Jesus Christ} will stand up, the Great Prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book." (Daniel 12:1)

"And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2)

Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; (John 11:25)

 

[robert derrick]

Revelation 20:4 (WEB):

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

The resurrected saints, who were resurrected in the first resurrection, are those sitting on thrones (reigning and judging with Jesus). Those beheaded for their testimony, I think are believers who have lived through the great tribulation, perhaps becoming believers because of the witness of the 144,000 Israelites mentioned in chapter 7. The resurrected church are in heaven before Jesus takes the scroll and breaks the seals in chapter 6. In chapter five (verses 9 & 10) the resurrected church:

sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation, and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”​

So the church is resurrected before all the tribulations that occur when Jesus opens the seven seals.

They will be believers, but they will have missed the acceptable time for sacrifice and the opportunity to become members of the body of Christ (so technically not Christians of the Gospel Age). There will be a great multitude of believers - Revelation 7 (WEB):

9) After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
10) They cried with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation be to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”​

Note that John didn't know who these people were (for the church was already complete, resurrected, and sitting on thrones in heaven):

13) One of the elders [a resurrected Christian] answered, saying to me, “These who are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and from where did they come?”
14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.
15) Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple. He who sits on the throne will spread his tabernacle over them.
16) They will never be hungry, neither thirsty any more; neither will the sun beat on them, nor any heat;
17) for the Lamb who is in the middle of the throne shepherds them, and leads them to springs of life-giving waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”​

Why does God need to wipe away their tears? It's because they didn't believe, and did not become Christians when they had the opportunity (before the rapture and first resurrection, and end of the Gospel Age), and having believed too late to receive the divine immortal nature and be heirs of God with Jesus, they nevertheless have a blessed reward for faithfully believing during the great tribulation, but they then realise what they have missed out on. They are obviously upset to have missed out on the greater blessing, so God wipes away their tears.

You do make a valiant effort of trying to conform Scripture to what I believe is a predetermined teaching by others. I am not saying you have not searched for yourself to your own satisfaction, and so I give honor where honor is due.

However : "The resurrected saints, who were resurrected in the first resurrection, are those sitting on thrones (reigning and judging with Jesus). Those beheaded for their testimony, I think are believers who have lived through the great tribulation...but they will have missed the acceptable time for sacrifice and the opportunity to become members of the body of Christ (so technically not Christians of the Gospel Age)."

And so, you must believe in a 'phased in' 1st Resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:4-6)

Those beheaded are believers of Jesus, as you say, but also live and reign with Him, being in the First Resurrection.

To make a distinction between those that sat on thrones before tribulation and those souls beheaded during tribulation, there must be different parts of time in the 1st resurrection. Because they all certainly are in the 1st resurrection and shall live and reign with Christ...

 

[robert derrick]

Revelation 20:4 (WEB):

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

The resurrected saints, who were resurrected in the first resurrection, are those sitting on thrones (reigning and judging with Jesus). Those beheaded for their testimony, I think are believers who have lived through the great tribulation, perhaps becoming believers because of the witness of the 144,000 Israelites mentioned in chapter 7. The resurrected church are in heaven before Jesus takes the scroll and breaks the seals in chapter 6. In chapter five (verses 9 & 10) the resurrected church:

sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation, and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”​

So the church is resurrected before all the tribulations that occur when Jesus opens the seven seals.

They will be believers, but they will have missed the acceptable time for sacrifice and the opportunity to become members of the body of Christ (so technically not Christians of the Gospel Age). There will be a great multitude of believers - Revelation 7 (WEB):

9) After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
10) They cried with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation be to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”​

Note that John didn't know who these people were (for the church was already complete, resurrected, and sitting on thrones in heaven):

13) One of the elders [a resurrected Christian] answered, saying to me, “These who are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and from where did they come?”
14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.
15) Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple. He who sits on the throne will spread his tabernacle over them.
16) They will never be hungry, neither thirsty any more; neither will the sun beat on them, nor any heat;
17) for the Lamb who is in the middle of the throne shepherds them, and leads them to springs of life-giving waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”​

Why does God need to wipe away their tears? It's because they didn't believe, and did not become Christians when they had the opportunity (before the rapture and first resurrection, and end of the Gospel Age), and having believed too late to receive the divine immortal nature and be heirs of God with Jesus, they nevertheless have a blessed reward for faithfully believing during the great tribulation, but they then realise what they have missed out on. They are obviously upset to have missed out on the greater blessing, so God wipes away their tears.

"They didn't believe, and did not become Christians when they had the opportunity (before the rapture and first resurrection, and end of the Gospel Age), and having believed too late to receive the divine immortal nature and be heirs of God with Jesus."

I have trouble with this way of thinking also. As you point out: they had opportunity. They have heard and believe not. Willingly, purposely, hard-heartedly. People do not fail to believe God by accident. It is an evil heart of unbelief (Heb 3:12)

How does persecution and tribulation convert such a person that thus far has refused to believe?? God has allowed persecution and tribulation to come to His people to purify and purge them, as He will one last time to come (Dan 12:9-10). He does not bring such upon unbelievers to convert them, but to punish them with tribulation and anguish, not tribulation and conversion. (Rom 2:9)

And if indeed these are natural Jews abiding in unbelief, then any real tribulation and persecution brought on by the beast will only move them to become more 'purified and repentant' in the Jews' Religion, certainly not in the Christian. They remained unbelieving despite the free Gospel and they would crucify Him afresh as a blasphemer as their fathers did, and then when troubled and persecuted on pain of death to reject Jesus, they are going to do the very opposite of what they have been doing and confess him?? Seriously??

No, not at all. That is not Scripture and that is not sense. If anything, the natural unbelieving Jews, like any other inhabiter of the earth in that day, will gladly denounce Jesus and join in on the persecution against them that testify of Jesus.

Which is the very reason why Jerusalem will be the center of it:

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8)

These last days of the New Covenant are not those of the former days during the Old. God allowed trouble to come to the children of Israel to hopefully return them to Himself and His true religion and law of Scripture. They have rejected Him utterly now. They officially have their own Jews' religion. They have nothing more in common with the faith of Jesus than the Muslims' Religion.

God cannot deal with them in the New as in the Old, because any trouble in life will only spur them to repent and cling more fiercely to a religion that is not His: the Jews' religion and the law of Moses. Trouble in life and threat of death to deny Jesus will not suddenly compel them to finally forsake Moses and cling to Jesus as Lord!

People who want to believe that God will 'one more really last and finally final time' go to the Jews only, are not thinking clearly of the difference between the last days today of God's New Covenant, after the coming and death of His own dear Son, vs those past days of yesterday of a carnal commandment confirmed by blood of bulls and goats.

That everlasting covenant is gone (1 Chron 16:17). And so that everlasting promise to Abraham of the flesh is gone. That past chosen people of carnal seed are gone: Cast out and away of their own choosing. None of that exists anymore. It's all gone away, and God will not bring it back in again and trample on His own Son's blood to do it. Even if He was crucified afresh on the earth, they still wouldn't believe, but rather would be joining in with the rest of the inhabiters deceived by the beast to do it, again.

 

[BroRando]

The Word of God is the Lord Jesus Christ as the Angel of Covenant.

Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts." (Malachi 3:1)

 

[robert derrick]

I started as a 'pre-trib' traditionalists from what I was taught as babe in Christ, That was about 20 years ago.

About one year ago a question came to mind for no apparent reason: How can the prince and power of the air remain so, when the body of Christ is raptured with clouds into the air to be with the Lord Himself, when He descends from heaven into the air.

It's not like he will be allowed to waltz around as in ancient days of yore: "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." (Job 1)

That will not be happening with the rapture of the church into the air with the Lord descending from heaven with a shout and last trump and voice of the archangel.

And so, Rev 12 with the dragon being cast down occurs in conjunction with the First resurrection and ascension...

 

[robert derrick]

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark"

As Noah entering into the ark and then upon the waters of the flood, so the church entering into the First resurrection, and then upon clouds into the air.

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

Even as Noah entered the ark, and the rest of malicious mankind rejoiced over his departure, so also shall the inhabiters of the earth rejoice over the death of the witnesses.

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Even as malicious mankind knew nothing of the flood immediately to come, so their children will know nothing of the first resurrection and the immediate return of the Lord from the air.

There is no '7 years' of raining down tribulation and plagues from God after the First resurrection. But there is years of man's tribulation and persecution upon His church, while the resurrection was a preparing (1 Peter 3:20), with sudden resurrection of the Lord's return. It will not be by flood of water upon the earth as God swore, but by brightness of His coming. (2 Thess 2:8)

They knew nothing of an imminent flood coming in the days of Noah, and they were not being prepped for the Lord's return by many years of plagues in the days of the two witnesses.

They were completely caught off guard with the first resurrection, ascension, and the Lord's return. They were not enduring many years of plagues and untold death, but rather they were rejoicing and sending gifts to one another as though the days of Purim had been revived.

The two witnesses shall be counted as Haman to the unrepentant Jews and inhabitors of the earth, even as Noah was counted a 'tormentor' of the wicked before the flood, and Jesus was counted a blasphemer in between.

They thought they had gotten rid of Noah, Jesus, and the two witnesses unto the very end. They thought they had won the war against God's true testimony on earth, until Noah entered the ark, Jesus resurrected, and the two witness stood upon their feet.

There is no '7 years' of wrath and plagues of God upon the earth after the First resurrection of His people. There will be years of their persecution upon His people by the dragon himself and his beast to finally rid the earth of God's witnesses once for all, even as Cain slew Abel for the same purpose, and then shall come sudden destruction upon them, even as they cry peace and safety with rejoicing from strong delusion...(1 Thess 5)(2 Thess 2)

There shall be one more final great tribulation, persecution, and wrath of man (James 2) upon the whole earth against the saints of Giod, and at the end thereof with the death of His last two witnesses, God will resurrect His people with them, to stand upon their feet over all the earth, and in their sight ascend into the air to meet with His Son descending from heaven. And then quickly shall come the 3rd woe of the dragon cast down to his inhabitors with wrath (Rev 11:14, 12:12), and shortly thereafter the quick plagues thereof, the Lord Himself and His saints shall ride down to destroy their gathered armies at Armageddon.

The first resurrection and ascension is in Rev 11 with the two witnesses, with the casting down of the dragon out of the air in Rev 12, to be followed quickly by great tribulation of God and anguish upon the wicked for a short time (Rom 2:9)(Rev 12:12, 17:10), concluding with the earth's gathering at Armageddon and the lightening strike coming of the Lord and His saints from the air to engage and destroy them on the earth.

To fully understand what reprobation from God fully means, just consider a world of inhabitors who have seen with their own eyes the resurrection of the dead in Christ in one moment standing upon their feet over all the earth, and then ascending with clouds into the air to meet the Lord Himself, Who has descended out of heaven with a shout and the sound of the last trump. And then, they go on to try and make war with Him the Lamb, and them that are ever with Him. (Rev 17:14)

Now that is just as insane as the inhabitants of Sodom desperately groping about to lay hands upon the very angels of the Lord, who had just stricken them with blindness...!

 

[n2thelight]

The 'rapture' is a non-Bible term used to describe the First Resurrection and meeting in the air with the Lord.

I believe that is only partly true.

(1 Thess 4)
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

the dead in Christ rising 'first' is where the First Resurrection comes from and is so named in Rev 20.

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This is what the 'rapture' is supposed to refer to.

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." (1 Cor 15)

1. The only thing specifically spoken of as in a moment is the actual First Resurrection. Not necessarily the following 'ascension' of the Church and Body of Jesus.

2. The First Resurrection has two parts: The dead in Christ rise first: Resurrected from corruption beneath the earth. And at the very same 'moment', the alive in Christ are changed from mortal to immortal. 2 parts to the first resurrection at the same moment of time.

3. There is no Scripture at all suggesting that those blessed who have part in the first resurrection (Rev 20), are resurrected in different 'stages' or 'parts', as though there will be a 'phased in' first resurrection at different parts of time. This 'teaching' was made up of necessity in order to hold to a 'pre-tribulation' rapture of the church.

Without Scripture plainly proving otherwise, The First Resurrection will occur in one single moment and twinkling of time for ALL the dead and the alive in Christ.

Therefore:

(Rev 11)
"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." (Rev 11)

This must be the time of the First Resurrection, where all resurrected and changed saints will be seen in a moment and twinkling of the eye standing upon their incorruptible and immortal feet upon the earth as these two witnesses. For these two witnesses certainly have their part in the First resurrection, which is at the same time as all the rest of the dead and the alive in Christ, who will have their part likewise and in the same manner.

"And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

And then their enemies, the inhabitors of the earth that are left behind upon the earth, shall see with their own eyes all the saints together caught up and ascending into the air with clouds to meet with the Lord Jesus, Who descends from heaven with a shout, and the archangel's voice saying 'come up hither' at the last trump.

Even as Jesus died and resurrected and ascended in sight of believers, so shall all His believers at that time and in like manner in the sight of His enemies.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

And with this First resurrection the angel with the 7th Trumpet shall sound: this is the last trump. And while all the host of heaven with the resurrected saints give glory to God with much thanksgiving and rejoicing to inaugurate Jesus' millennial reign, the nations left upon the earth shall be angry. Not repentant, but full of anger, even as their forefathers were before the flood.

And so it is that the Lord's return upon the earth shall be as in the days of Noah (Matthew 24): they were all rejoicing over the death of the believers in the Lord from the face of the earth save one, even as they shall do again during the persecution of the saints in the last great tribulation save two. And their rejoicing shall be turned into sudden and perpetual hostility and anger, not repentance, even as it was upon Noah's entering the ark, and they were all swept away suddenly.

How long between the ascension of the Church to meet with the Lord in the air, and His coming down to the earth as the lightening is from the east to the west upon a white horse with His saints? (Rev 19)(Jude 1)

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." (Rev 11:14)

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." (Rev 12)

It will be done quickly, as quick as the prince and power of the air can be cast down upon the earth to meet with his inhabitors thereof, which is the third and final woe, because there is no way in heaven that the dragon will be allowed to remain in the air during the Lord's return and meeting with His saints...

The first resurrection is those whom die in Christ or those who are at His return . Resurrection does not simply or should I say only mean to rise from the dead

 

[n2thelight]

That's not correct. The rapture of the church occurs immediately after the resurrection of the dead Christians, and it all happens very rapidly.

1 Thessalonians 4 (WEB) says:
16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17) Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
So a trumpet sounds and the dead Christians are resurrected first. Then, afterwards, Christians that are still alive will be seized (caught up, or raptured) to join them. It doesn't specify the time gap between the two groups of Christians, but the implication is that it's more or less at the same time.

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says:
51) Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
The raptured Christians are therefore changed "in the twinkling of an eye" (about a thousandth of a second), and likewise the resurrection of the dead will be just as instant - it won't take minutes or hours, it will be instant.

The dead are already with Christ that's who comes back with Him

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.

After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [died] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

1thess4

 

[keithr]

Not only are natural Jews no longer God's 'chosen' people, but as far as the Lord is concerned they aren't even properly 'Jews' anymore, even as their Jews' religion is not God's anymore.

God never breaks His promises. He promised that He would restore the nation of Israel, and bring the Jews back to it from all the nations where they were scattered. He kept that promise, with the nation of Israel being established in its homeland in 1948, and with Jews still returning to it. The Jews are still God's chosen people, and they still have a role in God's kingdom on earth:

Isaiah 2 (WEB):

2) It shall happen in the latter days, that the mountain of Yahweh’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be raised above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it.
3) Many peoples shall go and say, “Come, let’s go up to the mountain of Yahweh, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion the law shall go out, and Yahweh’s word from Jerusalem.
4) He will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.​

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)

That doesn't mean that there are no true Jews.

Christians are the only children of the promise of God to Abraham and to David, and the natural seed is cast out of their own volition and will, to be just another nation among nations.

That's the kind of view that led to anti-semitism and the holocaust! Christians have been grafted in, but the Jews will also be grafted back in eventually. From Romans 11 (WEB):

2) God didn’t reject his people, which he foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says about Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel:
5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
7) What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn’t obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened.
8) According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.”
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the of the richness of the olive tree;
18) don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you.
19) You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.”
20) True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear;
21) for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22) See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23) They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24) For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25) For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,
26) and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27) This is my covenant with them, when I will take away their sins.”
28) Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.
29) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30) For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,
31) even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy.
32) For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
33) Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!​

 

[keithr]

However : "The resurrected saints, who were resurrected in the first resurrection, are those sitting on thrones (reigning and judging with Jesus). Those beheaded for their testimony, I think are believers who have lived through the great tribulation...but they will have missed the acceptable time for sacrifice and the opportunity to become members of the body of Christ (so technically not Christians of the Gospel Age)."

And so, you must believe in a 'phased in' 1st Resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:4-6)

Those beheaded are believers of Jesus, as you say, but also live and reign with Him, being in the First Resurrection.

To make a distinction between those that sat on thrones before tribulation and those souls beheaded during tribulation, there must be different parts of time in the 1st resurrection. Because they all certainly are in the 1st resurrection and shall live and reign with Christ...

You seem to have missed out a bit from verse 4, the bit that says, "and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand". That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being referred to. I believe that the "beast" is referring to Islam, and that they will behead many believers in Christ during the time of trouble to come.

Verses 4 to 6 are a bit jumbled up! But I read it as the Christians who partook of the first resurrection are sat on thrones and are judging (remember Paul said that we shall judge angels). The "souls of them that were beheaded" are those that have come through the great tribulation, and are granted white robes of righteousness, and they will be resurrected as mortal spirit beings, and "they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple" (Revelation 7:15), i.e. they will be servants, not adopted sons of God. You could unjumble the verses to read something like:

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. [Now having eternal life and living in heaven.]
The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. [The rest of resurrected mankind won't have eternal life until after the final testing at the end of the Millenial Age.]

 

[keithr]

"They didn't believe, and did not become Christians when they had the opportunity (before the rapture and first resurrection, and end of the Gospel Age), and having believed too late to receive the divine immortal nature and be heirs of God with Jesus."

I have trouble with this way of thinking also. As you point out: they had opportunity. They have heard and believe not. Willingly, purposely, hard-heartedly. People do not fail to believe God by accident. It is an evil heart of unbelief (Heb 3:12)

How does persecution and tribulation convert such a person that thus far has refused to believe??

Don't forget that the rapture of the church has occurred. That will be very convincing to a lot of people, but it will be too late - they will have missed the bus (opportunity)!

And if indeed these are natural Jews abiding in unbelief, then any real tribulation and persecution brought on by the beast will only move them to become more 'purified and repentant' in the Jews' Religion, certainly not in the Christian. They remained unbelieving despite the free Gospel and they would crucify Him afresh as a blasphemer as their fathers did, and then when troubled and persecuted on pain of death to reject Jesus, they are going to do the very opposite of what they have been doing and confess him?? Seriously??

The time of the Gentiles will have ended at the rapture; then the Jews will believe that Jesus is the Messiah:

Luke 21:24) They will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Romans 11:25) For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,

Hebrews 8:

8) For finding fault with them, he said, “Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9) not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them,” says the Lord.
10) “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people.​

 

[keithr]

The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea.

Jesus also talked about the rapture:

Mat 24:39) ... so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:40) Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:41) Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:42) Watch therefore, for you don’t know in what hour your Lord comes.

Luk 17:34) I tell you, in that night there will be two people in one bed. The one will be taken, and the other will be left.
Luk 17:35) There will be two grinding grain together. One will be taken, and the other will be left.”

 

[robert derrick]

The Gospel 'Age' never ends, because there is no Gospel 'age' at all.

No Scripture speaks of an 'age' for the Gospel of God and of His kingdom, which began with the coming of His Son into the world (Mark 1:1).

"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." (Luke 21)

Jesus' words are His Gospel:

"The word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25)

So long as His word endures, so shall His Gospel endure throughout all ages, world without end (Eph 3:21). There is no 'age' after the Gospel age without end.

The Gospel of God (Rom 1:1) is the Gospel of His Son (Rom 1:9) and of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thess 1:8), which is the preaching of the cross (1 Cor 1:18). The Gospel of God is the Gospel of the Lamb, and whithersoever the Lamb is and goes, so also shall be the Lamb's Gospel.

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Rev 21)

The Heaven and earth of Jesus' and our time will pass away, but the Lamb and His word and Gospel will not.

The Lamb's Gospel shall forever be preached and has no end, because the Lord Jesus Himself shall be the preaching reminder throughout eternity, with the marks and imprints of His crucifixion upon Him:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." (John 20)

He was personally preaching His gospel of the cross to Thomas after His resurrection and shall continue to do so through all eternity:

(Rev 5)
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain."

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (5:13)

The Lamb shall be given glory and honor for ever and ever for His sacrifice on the cross, which is preached by His Gospel: the Gospel of the Lamb of God.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is that Gospel preached personally to Abraham by the Lord (Gal 3:8) and was likewise prophesied and searched for by the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:10). The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus' cross (Mark 1:1) was and still is the beginning of the last days prophesied of old, even as Peter confirms with Joel in Acts 2 and Paul confirms of Isaiah in Romans 10.

Therefore any testimony of the saints and of the witnesses of God in the last days shall be that of testifying: to the gospel of the grace of God, (Acts 20:24), which began with His resurrection, and will never end, because it is as everlasting as the Lamb Himself:

(Rev 14)
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth.
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come." (v 6)

The everlasting Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. There is no other Gospel of God (2 Cor 11:4) (Gal 1). It is that Gospel preached by an angel in midheaven at the very hour of judgment of God, which is at the end of the last great tribulation on earth.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth." (v 12-13)

And even at that late hour of the last time, if any inhabiter of the earth, Jew or Greek, shall believe unto death in the Lord, he shall be equally blessed as they who believed from the beginning and bore the burden and the heat of the day (Matthew 20:12):

And so the last shall be first, and the first last, and the Lord Jesus is the First and the Last and Lord of all who believe from first to last, from the beginning of the Gospel in Mark 1, to the final judgement of the last great Tribulation in Revelation 14.

And they all equally will be blessed and holy, having their part in the First Resurrection, which shall occur when the Lord reaps His harvest of the earth (Rev 14:15), at the very time of the hour of judgment of God upon the Whore, when Babylon is declared fallen (14:8).

There is no Gospel 'age' at all. It will never end, it is age of world without end. So long as the Lamb is, so shall He preach it forever and ever:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." (vs 10-11)

 

[Truth7t7]

And while all the host of heaven with the resurrected saints give glory to God with much thanksgiving and rejoicing to inaugurate Jesus' millennial reign, the nations left upon the earth shall be angry. Not repentant, but full of anger, even as their forefathers were before the flood.

And so it is that the Lord's return upon the earth shall be as in the days of Noah (Matthew 24): they were all rejoicing over the death of the believers in the Lord from the face of the earth save one, even as they shall do again during the persecution of the saints in the last great tribulation save two. And their rejoicing shall be turned into sudden and perpetual hostility and anger, not repentance, even as it was upon Noah's entering the ark, and they were all swept away suddenly.

How long between the ascension of the Church to meet with the Lord in the air, and His coming down to the earth as the lightening is from the east to the west upon a white horse with His saints? (Rev 19)(Jude 1)

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." (Rev 11:14)

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." (Rev 12)

It will be done quickly, as quick as the prince and power of the air can be cast down upon the earth to meet with his inhabitors thereof, which is the third and final woe, because there is no way in heaven that the dragon will be allowed to remain in the air during the Lord's return and meeting with His saints...

The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[robert derrick]

"For finding fault with them, he said, “Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them."

Even as the fathers were disregarded for not keeping His covenant, so are all the children of those fathers now disregarded for killing the Covenant Maker. No more are any after the flesh, by blood or will of man (John 1), called the children and people of God and of His Covenant, but only those born of His Spirit by the faith of His Son Jesus, the Lamb of God, according to His gospel.

Only by the Gospel of the Lamb are any become children of God, now and forever. And in this everlasting Gospel is the only everlasting salvation of God (Is 45:17), for the Jew first and also the Greek.

Not, the Jew first and also the Greek and then the Jew only...That is not Scripture anywhere. The everlasting gospel of the Lamb will be preached from mid-heaven to all inhabiters of the earth, not the Jews only, at the hour of Judgement of God upon Babylon. (Rev 14)

Christians are the only seed of promise of Abraham and Isaac:
(Gal 4)
"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise." (V 28)

The only time the Jews are ever mentioned personally and by name in the whole of Revelation are twice in Chapters 2 & 3, where they are called by the Lord liars for even calling themselves Jews as of God.

The only thing the 'Jews' of the flesh will be doing at that time, is the only thing any other flesh will be doing: either being converted by the Lamb to god, or being deceived by the beast of the dragon, and making was with the Lamb and His people of God.

"But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now." (Vs 29)

There is no more Jew vs Gentile before God and in the mind of the Lord, but only gentile nations, of which one now is the Jews' nation with their own Jews' religion. They wanted to be like other nations when they demanded a king, and they became like other nations when they crucified the King God sent them.

 

[robert derrick]

The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ
.

You are conflating to separate events.

Those with part in the First resurrection at the end of the last great tribulation will reign with the Lord a thousand years, and then their will be another resurrection of the dead. (Rev 20)

When the Lord comes riding down like lightening (Rev 19) to those assembled to make war with Him the Lamb and His resurrected saints in the air (Rev 17:14), He will destroy them with the brightness of His coming, so that their "flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zech 14)

"And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance." This is the ground war with His bright coming, that His resurrected saints shall fight at Jerusalem. Basically a mopping up exercise of immortal Christians: the true Judah of God, children of the Lion of the tribe of Judah. (David will probably be allowed first spoils)

The day of God in 2 Peter 3 wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?, will be at the end of the 1000 year reign: "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20)

Which is immediately followed by the 'dissolved' old heavens and earth fleeing away from the face of face of Him that sat on the great white throne...

 

[Truth7t7]

You are conflating to separate events.

Those with part in the First resurrection at the end of the last great tribulation will reign with the Lord a thousand years, and then their will be another resurrection of the dead. (Rev 20)

When the Lord comes riding down like lightening (Rev 19) to those assembled to make war with Him the Lamb and His resurrected saints in the air (Rev 17:14), He will destroy them with the brightness of His coming, so that their "flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zech 14)

"And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance." This is the ground war with His bright coming, that His resurrected saints shall fight at Jerusalem. Basically a mopping up exercise of immortal Christians: the true Judah of God, children of the Lion of the tribe of Judah. (David will probably be allowed first spoils)

The day of God in 2 Peter 3 wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?, will be at the end of the 1000 year reign: "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20)

Which is immediately followed by the 'dissolved' old heavens and earth fleeing away from the face of face of Him that sat on the great white throne...

The scripture clearly teaches "Tribulation Saints" and "Non Tribulation Saints" or (The Rest Of The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 below, both will partake in the (First Resurrection) on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are conflating to separate events.

Those with part in the First resurrection at the end of the last great tribulation will reign with the Lord a thousand years, and then their will be another resurrection of the dead. (Rev 20)

When the Lord comes riding down like lightening (Rev 19) to those assembled to make war with Him the Lamb and His resurrected saints in the air (Rev 17:14), He will destroy them with the brightness of His coming, so that their "flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zech 14)

"And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance." This is the ground war with His bright coming, that His resurrected saints shall fight at Jerusalem. Basically a mopping up exercise of immortal Christians: the true Judah of God, children of the Lion of the tribe of Judah. (David will probably be allowed first spoils)

The day of God in 2 Peter 3 wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?, will be at the end of the 1000 year reign: "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Rev 20)

Which is immediately followed by the 'dissolved' old heavens and earth fleeing away from the face of face of Him that sat on the great white throne...

When Jesus Christ Is Revealed, Appears, Its Fire Time, Just Like Sodom and Gomorrah

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[robert derrick]

You seem to have missed out a bit from verse 4, the bit that says, "and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand". That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being referred to. I believe that the "beast" is referring to Islam, and that they will behead many believers in Christ during the time of trouble to come.

Verses 4 to 6 are a bit jumbled up! But I read it as the Christians who partook of the first resurrection are sat on thrones and are judging (remember Paul said that we shall judge angels). The "souls of them that were beheaded" are those that have come through the great tribulation, and are granted white robes of righteousness, and they will be resurrected as mortal spirit beings, and "they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple" (Revelation 7:15), i.e. they will be servants, not adopted sons of God. You could unjumble the verses to read something like:

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. [Now having eternal life and living in heaven.]
The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. [The rest of resurrected mankind won't have eternal life until after the final testing at the end of the Millenial Age.]

"That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being referred to."

Well, that is only if you believe the First Resurrection is before the final tribulation. I asked if you could prove by Scripture that there are indeed two separate groups here. You didn't. You just stated it as fact, because of what you already believe elsewhere.

"they will be resurrected as mortal spirit beings" Unless you have independent Scriptural proof of such 'beings', then I can only conclude you have made them up to fit your teaching. (One thing: how are they spirit mortal beings yet have eternal life? They would need be immortal spirit beings, like angels, that were mortal men.)

Aside from that, you identify them separate from resurrected saints in Christ Jesus, specifically due to two things:

1. They missed the Gospel 'age' (of which there is age except it be age without end), and in so missing they believed 'too late', and so missed the First resurrection to incorruption, and are only eternally living in heaven.

--There is no Scripture for believers of Jesus not being members of His body. Which would need be the case. And even as they could 'believe Jesus' yet not be in His body, they could die 'for Jesus' yet not be dead in Christ. All the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptible in the likeness of His resurrection. (Rom 6:5)(1 Cor 15:42)

--you imply they are resurrected after tribulation, and so after the first resurrection, but before the last resurrection at millennial end. That makes three resurrections.

 

[robert derrick]

You seem to have missed out a bit from verse 4, the bit that says, "and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand". That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being referred to. I believe that the "beast" is referring to Islam, and that they will behead many believers in Christ during the time of trouble to come.

Verses 4 to 6 are a bit jumbled up! But I read it as the Christians who partook of the first resurrection are sat on thrones and are judging (remember Paul said that we shall judge angels). The "souls of them that were beheaded" are those that have come through the great tribulation, and are granted white robes of righteousness, and they will be resurrected as mortal spirit beings, and "they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple" (Revelation 7:15), i.e. they will be servants, not adopted sons of God. You could unjumble the verses to read something like:

I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. [Now having eternal life and living in heaven.]
The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. [The rest of resurrected mankind won't have eternal life until after the final testing at the end of the Millenial Age.]

2. To serve God day and night in His temple. They are servants not sons.

--when are believers servants but not sons, or sons but not servants? All believers are born sons to serve God in His Gospel, from the apostles on.
The full text of serving Him day and night includes Him that sits on the throne dwelling with them. Dwelling with God and He with us is the very hope of all mankind as sons forever, not just servant mortal spirit beings bound forever to temple duty.
(Rev 7)

"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

(Rev 21)

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new."

God is he that sits upon His throne and will dwell among those serving Him day and night which are the people He will dwell with at the Bride's coming. No distinction between either of the two, but clearly the same, with all tears wiped away by Him that sat on the throne.

This is in answer to His promise to the children of Israel, kept by the Gospel of promise to Abraham (Gal 3:8), which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God." (Ex 29:45)

Likewise in Revelation 20, the only ones of the eternal future with God are spoken of as His servants:

"The throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

Which answers to His seal in the foreheads in Revelation 7. (Is there a difference between His seal in the foreheads of servants only and His name in the foreheads of sons only?)

"For the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

They will serve Him and reign with Him for ever and ever.

"The Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book."

That includes John and any and all who read and keep the words of prophecy of this book. And all such are fellowservants together, including John and the one speaking with him:

"Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book."

Such fellowservants are brethren of the prophets who wrote to us the sure word of prophecy of Scripture in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. All are servants of God to serve Him forever and ever as His people that He dwells among.

And finally:

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:14)

The only ones to ever be washed in the blood of the Lamb are they which drink His blood and eat His flesh, and have tasted of the heavenly gift of God by faith in Jesus. And except we do so, we shall not have eternal Life. (John 6:53) No one shall live on earth and liver eternally in heaven who has not drank His blood and been washed therein, and become His sons as members of His body. And that body is resurrected at one single time.

And those who do drink of His blood and are washed therein shall dwell in Him, and He shall dwell in them. (John 6:56) Ad so they are servants of God day and night among whom He dwells.

There is no such thing as a distinction between being resurrected sons only or being resurrected servants only. All they who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are His people, members of His body, saints in the likeness of His resurrection. And the only way to become such is by hearing the Gospel of the Lamb and believing Jesus, which Gospel is everlasting age without end, including during the last great tribulation on earth, prior to the First Resurrection of the dead in Christ from earth.

The Gospel of the Lamb is and will be preached, and they who believe unto the end shall be in the first resurrection of His body, washed in His blood, and clothed in white to judge the world and angels during His millennial reign.

There are no eternal sons only and no eternal servants only and no 'lesser' members of His body that are not honored equally as members (1 Cor 12:26) and resurrected equally with the rest of the body.