The First Resurrection

[Truth7t7]

Ok, ok, I get it. The thousand year reign of Christ is a spiritual teaching of being with the Lord one day, and at the end it is still as fresh and alive as day one. Being truly with the Lord, Who is the First and the Last, for even one whole day is in itself a life everlasting that never ends and never gets old.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as day one." (2 Peter 3)

I understand that, and completely agree on a spiritual and practical level. Afterall, who can truly claim being with the Lord without sin nor error nor confusion for one full and complete day of time?? However, that does not negate the fact of it being literally true as well. Much of the literal events of the Bible are also spiritual teachings, such as the dividing of the Red Sea for the children of Israel to walk across on dry land. Paul pointed out that such things were our school masters for our learning. But to then negate the literal fact of the Red Sea parting, just to make it 'spiritual' is depriving God of His glory and honor to be able to do both.

You can spiritualize the whole Bible for good teaching in the faith without doing away with the factual history and prophecy of it. Once you begin to do that, then you do away with everything written therein as literally true, such as the Law and commandments. They don't really mean anything physically. Oh no, they are just good 'spiritual' teachings, not actual codified law that God will one day judge everyone by.

And even with the spiritual teaching of the Lord's millennial reign with His resurrected priests, there is still physical space of time between the first resurrection and that of the 'rest of the dead'. There is at least one day between them, which in God's terms makes them completely separate. Afterall, one day is as a thousand years, right?

And so, whether by one day or by a thousand years, there is still a physical separation of time between the Lord's return at the First Resurrection of the blessed, and the following living again and judgment of the 'rest of the dead', which is the final day of God: there is at least a one day-long millennial reign of Christ and His firstly resurrected priests. His return is therefore not the last day.

The basic problem of making the day of the Lord's return the very same as the day of God's final judgement is that the Lord shall return to fight the battle at Armageddon from the air and end on the ground: And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance." (Zech 14:14)

This is the Lord's return with His saints, and is certainly not the last day where all the elements melt with fervent heat.

Likewise, after with the mop up operation in Jerusalem, the Lord Himself shall descend to the ground and "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee, and the LORD shall be king over all the earth." (Zech 14)

Neither is this the last day wherein the heavens and the earth shall melt with fervent heat...And lest anyone think this is Lord standing upin the new earth with the New Jerusalem descended upon the great and high mountain: "and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." The great and high mountain of the new earth will not be broken in two, when New Jerusalem descends upon it.

And finally, the prophesy of Job must be fulfilled that He will see His redeemer stand at the latter day upon the earth. (Job 19) This is not the new earth. The last days are here already, and the latter day is not the last day...The later day is the day of the Lord's return upon the earth, that will be as a thousand years (if you wish), and then the last day will be the dissolving of the old earth for judgment.

Robert, You forgot the fire in destruction in Zechariah 14:12 below, the Kingdom that is seen takes place "After" the day of the Lord in fiery judgement

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

I liken the first resurrection to being born again.
Baptism being the image of death and resurrection.
Once you are Christ's the judgement begins.
And your judged according to the fruit you bare, by works of love, charity, hospitality, etc.
The second resurrection would then be a literal life after death in eternity.
I think of life and death in spiritual terms rather than physical.
Those dead in Christ are those who have fallen away from God.
They return to God... a "revival"
And those who have always believed will not prevent those who are returning.

I'm not saying I don't believe in a literal resurrection,
I'm just saying, I believe the Spiritual has to occur first.
Just my thoughts.
Hugs

Your explanation of the resurrection isnt found in scripture

Scripture teaches that those who are dead in Jesus Christ will be resurrected on the last day John 6:39-40, all that are in the grave will be resurrected John 5:28-29, only the righteous will receive the eternal glorified body 1 Corinthians 15:23-54KJV

 

[Ziggy]

Your explanation of the resurrection isnt found in scripture

Scripture teaches that those who are dead in Jesus Christ will be resurrected on the last day John 6:39-40, all that are in the grave will be resurrected John 5:28-29, only the righteous will receive the eternal glorified body 1 Corinthians 15:23-54KJV

I suppose it depends if your looking at it through worldly eyes or spiritual eyes.
I tend to interpret most thing spiritually.

And then you have Paul which says:
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So to me, this is the first resurrection to life.

This is that Trumpet...
Luk 3:2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Those that are dead in Christ remind me of these:

Luk 3:7Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

and for those who come after:
for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

So it is scriptural, it's just a different perspective.
Hugs

 

[amadeus]

Your explanation of the resurrection isnt found in scripture

Scripture teaches that those who are dead in Jesus Christ will be resurrected on the last day John 6:39-40,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:39-40

Is this not then the last day of death for one who is now a believer? Would not the last day of death for each of us be immediately before we believed on Him?

"Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:24-26

If we already believe in Jesus, why would or should we be waiting for some future day?

all that are in the grave will be resurrected John 5:28-29, only the righteous will receive the eternal glorified body 1 Corinthians 15:23-54KJV

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." John 5:25

Why did he say, "and now is"?

Were we not dead when we heard his voice in order to live? When did we start to Live?

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28-29

"When the dead shall hear his voice" [John 5:25], but which dead ones have heard?

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:12-16

If we are waiting to hear until after the dirt has been shoveled over our faces, it is not too late to hear anything from God at all?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing..." Ecc 9:5

 

[Truth7t7]

I suppose it depends if your looking at it through worldly eyes or spiritual eyes.
I tend to interpret most thing spiritually.

And then you have Paul which says:
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So to me, this is the first resurrection to life.

This is that Trumpet...
Luk 3:2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Those that are dead in Christ remind me of these:

Luk 3:7Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

and for those who come after:
for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

So it is scriptural, it's just a different perspective.
Hugs

Thanks for the response

You replied in the middle of a conversation regarding "First" resurrection in Rev 20:4-6, I completely understand your position now

Yes there is a spiritual birth, resurrection, as Romans 6 you present clearly teaches in the "Spiritual", I apologize for my previous response in not understanding your position

However those seen in Rev 20:4-6 have already lived as believers, and are dead waiting upon the last day resurrection

Side Hug, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:39-40

Is this not then the last day of death for one who is now a believer? Would not the last day of death for each of us be immediately before we believed on Him?

"Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:24-26

If we already believe in Jesus, why would or should we be waiting for some future day?



"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." John 5:25

Why did he say, "and now is"?

Were we not dead when we heard his voice in order to live? When did we start to Live?

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28-29

"When the dead shall hear his voice" [John 5:25], but which dead ones have heard?

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:12-16

If we are waiting to hear until after the dirt has been shoveled over our faces, it is not too late to hear anything from God at all?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing..." Ecc 9:5

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Final Judgement)

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The scripture is very clear
1. Jesus Christ Comes
2. The Resurrection Takes Place
3. Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory
4. Then Cometh The End
5. In The Twinkling Off An Eye

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)
(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)
(In The Twinkling Of An Eye)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Ziggy]

Thanks for the response

You replied in the middle of a conversation regarding "First" resurrection in Rev 20:4-6, I completely understand your position now

Yes there is a spiritual birth, resurrection, as Roman's 6 clearly teaches in the "Spiritual"

However those seen in Rev 20:4-6 have already lived as believers, and are dead waiting upon the last day resurrection

Side Hug, Jesus Is The Lord

I believe the Gospels and the book of Revelation are the same.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

bound him a thousand years... a thousand years is as a day... what day?

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Now when Jesus was facing death.. that is the Devil and he knew he must die, he told his disciples:

Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

This is the "little season" the Devil must be loosed.

We are still in that season..
Now when the Apostles began the churches around Asia they were given spiritual authority to teach right judgement and also to judge righteously.
And just as John the Baptist was beheaded for the word of God, many people after followed his fate..
and I believe will again.

I also believe beheading could be a spiritual metaphor for replacing the worldly mind with the mind of Christ.
So I see duality a lot.
But I tend to lean towards the spiritual as more fruitful than the physical.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I'm not waiting for a physical resurrection even though there may very well be one.
I'm not waiting at all.
I've already been born again. My treasure is already in heaven, because that's where my heart is.

Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I know this kind of goes against "traditional teaching"
But I'm not a very traditional person..

anywhoo..
Hugs

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe the Gospels and the book of Revelation are the same.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

bound him a thousand years... a thousand years is as a day... what day?

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Now when Jesus was facing death.. that is the Devil and he knew he must die, he told his disciples:

Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

This is the "little season" the Devil must be loosed.

We are still in that season..
Now when the Apostles began the churches around Asia they were given spiritual authority to teach right judgement and also to judge righteously.
And just as John the Baptist was beheaded for the word of God, many people after followed his fate..
and I believe will again.

I also believe beheading could be a spiritual metaphor for replacing the worldly mind with the mind of Christ.
So I see duality a lot.
But I tend to lean towards the spiritual as more fruitful than the physical.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I'm not waiting for a physical resurrection even though there may very well be one.
I'm not waiting at all.
I've already been born again. My treasure is already in heaven, because that's where my heart is.

Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I know this kind of goes against "traditional teaching"
But I'm not a very traditional person..

anywhoo..
Hugs

2 peter 3:8 in speaking one day is a thousand years is teaching nothing more than the Lord and that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is outside of earthly time, Jesus is the Alpha/Omega seeing the beginning and the end, not bound by earthly time

 

[Ziggy]

2 peter 3:8 in speaking one day is a thousand years is teaching nothing more than the Lord and that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is outside of earthly time, Jesus is the Alpha/Omega seeing the beginning and the end, not bound by earthly time

I agree

 

[Truth7t7]

Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

This is the "little season" the Devil must be loosed.

We are still in that season..
Now when the Apostles began the churches around Asia they were given spiritual authority to teach right judgement and also to judge righteously.
And just as John the Baptist was beheaded for the word of God, many people after followed his fate..
and I believe will again.

I also believe beheading could be a spiritual metaphor for replacing the worldly mind with the mind of Christ.
So I see duality a lot.
But I tend to lean towards the spiritual as more fruitful than the physical.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I'm not waiting for a physical resurrection even though there may very well be one.
I'm not waiting at all.
I've already been born again. My treasure is already in heaven, because that's where my heart is.

Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I know this kind of goes against "traditional teaching"
But I'm not a very traditional person..

anywhoo..
Hugs

I believe "The Little Season" seen in Revelation 6:11 is a future event yet to be fulfilled, I believe this takes place when a future literal human man takes power in Jerusalem as (The Beast) Antichrist, I believe future believers will actually be killed, those chosen, the sealed church will be present on earth and protected from literal plagues come upon a literal world, brought by literal prophets (Two Witnesses) seen in Rev 11 A complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 6:11KJV
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree

See your in Maine Ziggy, I tried to get the wife on a flight to Boston from Calif, roundtrip for 2 was like $300 some 8-10 months ago, beautiful cottages on your coastline were cheap, like $60 a night, as was everywhere, prices have doubled since then, I'll get out there one day God willing

 

[Ziggy]

I believe "The Little Season" seen in Revelation 6:11 is a future event yet to be fulfilled, I believe this takes place when a future literal human man takes power in Jerusalem as (The Beast) Antichrist, I believe future believers will actually be killed, those chosen, the sealed church will be present on earth and protected from literal plagues come upon a literal world, brought by literal prophets (Two Witnesses) seen in Rev 11 A complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 6:11KJV
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I believe both can be true.
The seen and the unseen.
At this present time.. Jesus is our rest, he is our peace.
And the world is trying to remove him.

Rev 7:13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

When your born again and believe, you are washed from your sins in the blood of the lamb.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of the living God.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I believe that this is already occurring with the faithful believers. We just don't physically see it.
But we walk by faith and not by sight...

This doesn't mean that that which is not manifested will not be manifest,
on the contrary...

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and again:
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Almost like we are living in two different realities at the same time. One spiritual and the other physical.
It's the crossing the barrier between them, some find difficult.
Some people always walk with their head in the clouds, while others always walk with their head in the sand.
The firmament between the two.. the meeting in the clouds..
being able to see both perspectives and not discounting either one.

I have faith that I am already there in Spirit.
I have hope that I will be able to SEE the fruition of that faith in another way, another time, another world.
But for now... I tend to have my head in the clouds most the time..
If not for gravity and having to reside in a physical world, my feet would never touch the sand, let alone my head.

Phl 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Is... Is far better, not will be.. not something future, but now is...
If you believe.

We are here for a reason. To be lights in a world of darkness.
If we were all to leave, imagine how dark the world would be.
I believe that time is yet to come and has already begun.
So we still have an earthly mission, but our hearts and minds should already be at it's destination.

Head in the clouds and feet on the ground..
the strait betwixt two...

thankyou for the discussion
:)
Hugs

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe both can be true.
The seen and the unseen.
At this present time.. Jesus is our rest, he is our peace.
And the world is trying to remove him.

Rev 7:13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

When your born again and believe, you are washed from your sins in the blood of the lamb.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of the living God.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I believe that this is already occurring with the faithful believers. We just don't physically see it.
But we walk by faith and not by sight...

This doesn't mean that that which is not manifested will not be manifest,
on the contrary...

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and again:
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Almost like we are living in two different realities at the same time. One spiritual and the other physical.
It's the crossing the barrier between them, some find difficult.
Some people always walk with their head in the clouds, while others always walk with their head in the sand.
The firmament between the two.. the meeting in the clouds..
being able to see both perspectives and not discounting either one.

I have faith that I am already there in Spirit.
I have hope that I will be able to SEE the fruition of that faith in another way, another time, another world.
But for now... I tend to have my head in the clouds most the time..
If not for gravity and having to reside in a physical world, my feet would never touch the sand, let alone my head.

Phl 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Is... Is far better, not will be.. not something future, but now is...
If you believe.

We are here for a reason. To be lights in a world of darkness.
If we were all to leave, imagine how dark the world would be.
I believe that time is yet to come and has already begun.
So we still have an earthly mission, but our hearts and minds should already be at it's destination.

Head in the clouds and feet on the ground..
the strait betwixt two...

thankyou for the discussion
:)
Hugs

It appears that you believe the Revelation is seen in Spiritual Symbolism in a (Preterist) perspective of scripture?

I strongly believe scripture clearly teaches the Beast or Antichrist will be a literal future human man, the two witnesses will be literal prophets returned, and there will be literal plagues, upon a literal earth

Jesus Christ will return as literal human eyes watch upon earth, as literal fire in destruction of the existing heaven and earth takes place

1.Do you believe the plagues of Egypt as seen in Exodus were literal?

2. Do you believe Sodom and Gomorrah were literally destroyed as seen in Genesis 19?

 

[amadeus]

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

My last day my friend is not effectively the last day I have any choice as to whether or not I follow Jesus to the end? Have I not made all my decisions and implemented any that I was going to implement prior to my final physical breath as a carnal man and prior to them shoveling dirt on my face?

Are you saying that any of us here has a second chance to change what we are after the physical body of us dies?

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Everyone born is woman is born dead even though most everyone goes around calling what he has, life. It is not life. Life was lost by our first natural parents, known and Adam and Eve. Anyone bornt to dead parents is born dead. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and died. God is not a liar!


Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Gen 3:6

They did eat and did die. Life came to no one anew until Jesus paid the price and made it a possibility. Those who never received Jesus and believed on him remained dead. No additional judgement needed for them. They are already dead.

The ones, who resurrect to damnation, it seems to me, would have been those who took hold of the Life Jesus offered, but then failed to endure with him to the end...

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

All final judgements on you and me, the believers accomplished effective by us in the choices we made or failed to make during our allotted time, the duration of our course as flesh and blood fallible people. Our last day is done when we stop breathing leaving our physical families to fit us for a casket.

 

[Ziggy]

It appears that you believe the Revelation is seen in Spiritual Symbolism in a (Preterist) perspective of scripture?

I strongly believe scripture clearly teaches the Beast or Antichrist will be a literal future human man, the two witnesses will be literal prophets returned, and there will be literal plagues, upon a literal earth

Jesus Christ will return as literal human eyes watch upon earth, as literal fire in destruction of the existing heaven and earth takes place

1.Do you believe the plagues of Egypt as seen in Exodus were literal?

2. Do you believe Sodom and Gomorrah were literally destroyed as seen in Genesis 19?

I believe it's both. Spiritual symbolism and a future physical event.

1. Egypt... Both
2. Sodom and Gomorrah... Both

Actual events with spiritual truths.

Hugs

 

[robert derrick]

Robert, You forgot the fire in destruction in Zechariah 14:12 below, the Kingdom that is seen takes place "After" the day of the Lord in fiery judgement

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You added a little clarification:

"Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire"

Lord returns to defeat them at Armageddon touches down on the Mount, then resurrection into the air, then scorched heaven and earth, which flee from face of God...

1: The Lord descends with a shout, and the church altogether is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The normal reading is more plausible: The Lord descends into the air, and His church rises to meet Him there. Not the Lord descends to the earth, touches down long enough to resurrect His church, and they all with the Lord rise back up in the air. They would have already 'met' on the earth.

2. You have the Lord returning to the earth to fight Armageddon alone, before the resurrection. He does not, but rather His armies are with Him (Rev 19), and they are not the angelic host:

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints." (Jude)

Which fits with the 1st resurrection where they are caught up together with clouds to meet the Lord in the air:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him." (Rev 1)

In Scripture, there is no way at all that the Lord return to fight His enemies at Armageddon alone, and those with Him are His called and faithful saints, not an 'angelic' host.

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." (Rev 17)

You still have not addressed:

1.The necessity that Christ must reign after setting down on earth, until all enemies have been subjected, and He then delivers up the kingdom to God, which occurs at the end of His reign on earth with fire from God destroying Satan's army one last time.

And so, Armageddon is not the final battle. The final battle on the our earth is with God and Magog after the dragon was loosed at the end of the Lord's reign on earth.

You have one fatal flaw, and several missed events: The Lord does not return alone to fight. And there is His reign on earth with the final battle of fire from heaven upon Gog and Magog.

That is when the end cometh of the old heaven and earth when they are dissolved with fervent heat.

The main two questions of His disciples were: the sign of His coming and return. And the end of the world. They no doubt mistakenly understood both to be at once, but Scriptures shows His millennial reign and final battle on earth in between.

 

[Truth7t7]

You still have not addressed:

1.The necessity that Christ must reign after setting down on earth, until all enemies have been subjected, and He then delivers up the kingdom to God, which occurs at the end of His reign on earth with fire from God destroying Satan's army one last time.

And so, Armageddon is not the final battle. The final battle on the our earth is with God and Magog after the dragon was loosed at the end of the Lord's reign on earth.

You have one fatal flaw, and several missed events: The Lord does not return alone to fight. And there is His reign on earth with the final battle of fire from heaven upon Gog and Magog.

That is when the end cometh of the old heaven and earth when they are dissolved with fervent heat.

The main two questions of His disciples were: the sign of His coming and return. And the end of the world. They no doubt mistakenly understood both to be at once, but Scriptures shows His millennial reign and final battle on earth in between.

The battle seen in Revelation 16:16 & 20:8-9 is the exact same battle in parallel teachings of the same event, same devil going forth in deception to the kings of the earth, same battle,that takes place at the end of the tribulation, as the Lord returns in the second coming in fire and Final judgement

The 7th vial in Rev 16:17 is the end, in the words (It Is Done) when the fire from heaven is seen in Rev 20:9 (The End)

The book is seen in parallel teachings of same events, not chronologically as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

1: The Lord descends with a shout, and the church altogether is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The normal reading is more plausible: The Lord descends into the air, and His church rises to meet Him there. Not the Lord descends to the earth, touches down long enough to resurrect His church, and they all with the Lord rise back up in the air. They would have already 'met' on the earth.
.

1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture as many teach, dont be deceived.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

My last day my friend is not effectively the last day I have any choice as to whether or not I follow Jesus to the end? Have I not made all my decisions and implemented any that I was going to implement prior to my final physical breath as a carnal man and prior to them shoveling dirt on my face?

Are you saying that any of us here has a second chance to change what we are after the physical body of us dies?

Everyone born is woman is born dead even though most everyone goes around calling what he has, life. It is not life. Life was lost by our first natural parents, known and Adam and Eve. Anyone bornt to dead parents is born dead. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and died. God is not a liar!


Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Gen 3:6

They did eat and did die. Life came to no one anew until Jesus paid the price and made it a possibility. Those who never received Jesus and believed on him remained dead. No additional judgement needed for them. They are already dead.

The ones, who resurrect to damnation, it seems to me, would have been those who took hold of the Life Jesus offered, but then failed to endure with him to the end...


All final judgements on you and me, the believers accomplished effective by us in the choices we made or failed to make during our allotted time, the duration of our course as flesh and blood fallible people. Our last day is done when we stop breathing leaving our physical families to fit us for a casket.

We Will Disagree, the (Last Day) takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, when all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth John 5:28-29, John 6:39-40 the (Last Day) is the final judgement of all that have lived, John 12:48

 

[amadeus]

We Will Disagree, the (Last Day) takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, when all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth John 5:28-29, John 6:39-40 the (Last Day) is the final judgement of all that have lived, John 12:48

Yes, we may disagree.

However, consider, if you will, the idea of the 1st resurrection occurring when Jesus rose from the dead and the 2nd resurrection happening when and if a person was born again. Why should it be more complicated than that?

No need to respond here again. Thank you for your consideration.