Is it OK to blaspheme the Trinity?

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

No. I know God better than I know you. I'm asking you... It's you I don't understand.

read your Bible more, and then you will understand!

 

[Brakelite]

read your Bible more, and then you will understand!

The Bible does explain why God is gracious to you, but you aren't gracious to others. It means you need to be converted.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It means you need to be converted

says a FOOL!

 

[Brakelite]

says a FOOL!

Lol. You're really having trouble with my question eh. You testify to the grace of God... Yet deny it to others. And you can't explain that disharmony. You thought to refer me to scripture for an answer. Okay.
KJV Luke 18:9-14
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Lol. You're really having trouble with my question eh. You testify to the grace of God... Yet deny it to others. And you can't explain that disharmony. You thought to refer me to scripture for an answer. Okay.
KJV Luke 18:9-14
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

what "christian" are you?

 

[Brakelite]

what "christian" are you?

There's more than one?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

There's more than one?

indeed! there are the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, and even some Atheists, who call themselves "christian". So, what are you?

 

[Brakelite]

indeed! there are the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, and even some Atheists, who call themselves "christian". So, what are you?

Being one of the above, or not, a Christian does not make. A Christian is he who has received the power of God through the Spirit of God that he/she might become a child of God. That power enables one to live a sanctified holy life and causes him/her to grow in his relationship with God, each day growing closer through the study of scripture and prayer. If he is to join a denomination, it is because he feels that denominations teachings are closest to his own personal studies of scripture, and feels led of the holy Spirit to join himself to that group where the fellowship, the studies, and the group's goals are directed to the community in the sharing of the good news of the gospel.
If he is wrong in his individual studies, and is incorrect in his theology and doctrinal beliefs, yet his relationship with the Lord solid and true, then God will correct him and then whisper in his ear... This is the way, walk ye in it.
That's the kind of Christian I am.

 

[APAK]

I agree that Protestantism never fully extricated itself from Mother. The Catholic church boasts of the trinity as the central doctrine of her faith, and all other doctrines emanating from it. But let us not throw everything aside in order to prove we are free from the papacy. You will never find a counterfeit $8 note. Or a counterfeit $99 note. Counterfeiters aren't stupid. The devil has in creating the Papal system established an ingenious counterfeit, which without scriptures, can be readily accepted as true Christianity. So while the Nicaean creed and the ones following were counterfeits of the reality of the Godhead, those creeds weren't so far out into left field to be obviously and dramatically wrong. I think we need to take great care in criticizing the trinity, as we are discussing the infinite and eternal nature of God, so we are stepping onto holy ground. We need to take care when we start drawing lines in the sand...on both sides...and condemning others for their view. God has revealed Himself to mankind throughout human history. In so much as He has revealed Himself, that we can take as Truth. But we get into trouble when we take that Truth, and attempt to embellish it in ways that have not been revealed. We make assumptions. And those assumptions become dogma. Then as can be seen on this thread, those who disagree with those assumptions come dogma, are condemned.
The Truth is no -one knows how or in what manner God is materially comprised. We do know that there are three personalities involved. We know that the Messiah, Jesus, is the Son of God. We know that He had a hand in creating all things, and was begotten of God way back in eternity before anything else was made or created. Begotten we know does not mean created. Brought forth in a manner that isn't explained, at a time which to us seems forever, must and can only mean of the same nature as His Father...just as in all Father/Son relationships. At least to me, in my own very limited human and distressed understanding, that makes the Son every much a part of divinity as the Father. Yet also very separate. The Son is an individual. A distinct person in His own right. And that, right there, is where I part from orthodox Christianity. I simply cannot see any rhyme or reason for inventing an idea that makes the Father and Son into one consubstantial being. You don't need such a belief in order to accept Christ's divinity. His Sonship ought to be sufficient for that alone. That, the consubstantial theory, at east to my mind, takes the understanding or teaching of the Godhead a step too far. It is an assumption born of political necessity to create an orthodox formula to bring unity to a divided empire. And the means by which this formula was promulgated and enforced upon all Christianity ought to make modern trinitarians embarrassed. And I sense that same ungracious spirit of intolerance and persecution being demonstrated in this thread. All based on an assumption. Sad.

Backlit: I do agree with your post, although only to a degree, as I've voiced my opinion before on this similar subject. And I'm not at all unhappy or even frustrated that you differ in belief on these key points I will entertain, again, as I've said before.

I do know where are coming from, I just do not agree. My years of study and observations, and in the Spirit many times with my head in scripture has produced these beliefs and they are firm. Only the Spirit can guide me into another direction, and your direction is different although not that drastic as some others, that it affects both of our hopes of realizing our true salvation in another body with Christ.

To the points then:
1. There are actually two key personalities in scripture that affects mankind, besides the 1st Adam, for our salvation; a. YHWH (the true single and one God) and b., his Son, Yahshua or Jesus. The Holy Spirit is NOT an individual person apart from YHWH, it is the intrinsic form and communicative power of YHWH as extended into this world, that is in all creation beings and things. And therefore it can be termed as personal, with a male pronoun as 'he.' It is the essential part of the one true God we call YHWH.

2. Jesus was actually created around 2 BC and never exists in any spiritual or material form until that time - as the 2nd Adam. However, YHWH purposed his creation, and mission, as his Son, before creation. He was in the mind of YHWH. I do not believe in the pagan invention of 'hypostatic union' or any 'incarnation' whereby Christ became a godman and not a truly begotten or born male child as begotten really means from the Greek. And thus Jesus was NOT divine, in any way shape or form.

3. Criticizing the Trinity as I have just done, and done before, and will continue to do so, although not frantically of course, is most definitely a holy affair and on Holy ground, as you said. And I do have both feet there to defend the nature of YHWH as his word reveals. The Trinity is a MAJOR block to many NOT being save today IMO.

Do Trinitarians know who they really worship and pray to? Is it to the Father God via the Spirit of his Son, or is it to a non-descript 3-headed God of pagan origin? If they say the former, then ditch the 3-headed monster, it does not exist. The Father is the ONLY true God and the ONLY divine Holy Spirit, and his Son, 100% human where the Father lived/lives within him, who was given immortality ONLY when he was resurrected from the dead by his Father, YHWH. They are NOT equal beings and never shall be, no matter how hard one tries to force it in, as scriptural doctrine.

And then is added/edited/even deleted scripture itself over the centuries, and with an avalanche of other incredible support such as: Jesus was the word (logos-never means a person), and Jesus now created the Universe and the world, and Jesus rid himself of his divinity (if one can describe this as if they know what they speaking about) somehow, somewhere and then somehow, somewhere installed it back into himself like spiritual surgery or a computer program installation before entering heaven.

And the lies keep on coming, as twisted, forced interpretations of scripture, to conform to a Trinity that is incomprehensible and deceitful. Worshipers of a Trinity do not worship God the Father as YHWH only as they cannot deny. They lack faith of what YHWH can do and how he planned to save us from the acts of the 1st Adam, another 100 percent man, created by YHWH.

Clear I hope,

Bless you,

APAK

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Being one of the above, or not, a Christian does not make. A Christian is he who has received the power of God through the Spirit of God that he/she might become a child of God. That power enables one to live a sanctified holy life and causes him/her to grow in his relationship with God, each day growing closer through the study of scripture and prayer. If he is to join a denomination, it is because he feels that denominations teachings are closest to his own personal studies of scripture, and feels led of the holy Spirit to join himself to that group where the fellowship, the studies, and the group's goals are directed to the community in the sharing of the good news of the gospel.
If he is wrong in his individual studies, and is incorrect in his theology and doctrinal beliefs, yet his relationship with the Lord solid and true, then God will correct him and then whisper in his ear... This is the way, walk ye in it.
That's the kind of Christian I am.

You are so VERY WRONG

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Backlit: I do agree with your post, although only to a degree, as I've voiced my opinion before on this similar subject. And I'm not at all unhappy or even frustrated that you differ in belief on these key points I will entertain, again, as I've said before.

I do know where are coming from, I just do not agree. My years of study and observations, and in the Spirit many times with my head in scripture has produced these beliefs and they are firm. Only the Spirit can guide me into another direction, and your direction is different although not that drastic as some others, that it affects both of our hopes of realizing our true salvation in another body with Christ.

To the points then:
1. There are actually two key personalities in scripture that affects mankind, besides the 1st Adam, for our salvation; a. YHWH (the true single and one God) and b., his Son, Yahshua or Jesus. The Holy Spirit is NOT an individual person apart from YHWH, it is the intrinsic form and communicative power of YHWH as extended into this world, that is in all creation beings and things. And therefore it can be termed as personal, with a male pronoun as 'he.' It is the essential part of the one true God we call YHWH.

2. Jesus was actually created around 2 BC and never exists in any spiritual or material form until that time - as the 2nd Adam. However, YHWH purposed his creation, and mission, as his Son, before creation. He was in the mind of YHWH. I do not believe in the pagan invention of 'hypostatic union' or any 'incarnation' whereby Christ became a godman and not a truly begotten or born male child as begotten really means from the Greek. And thus Jesus was NOT divine, in any way shape or form.

3. Criticizing the Trinity as I have just done, and done before, and will continue to do so, although not frantically of course, is most definitely a holy affair and on Holy ground, as you said. And I do have both feet there to defend the nature of YHWH as his word reveals. The Trinity is a MAJOR block to many NOT being save today IMO.

Do Trinitarians know who they really worship and pray to? Is it to the Father God via the Spirit of his Son, or is it to a non-descript 3-headed God of pagan origin? If they say the former, then ditch the 3-headed monster, it does not exist. The Father is the ONLY true God and the ONLY divine Holy Spirit, and his Son, 100% human where the Father lived/lives within him, who was given immortality ONLY when he was resurrected from the dead by his Father, YHWH. They are NOT equal beings and never shall be, no matter how hard one tries to force it in, as scriptural doctrine.

And then is added/edited/even deleted scripture itself over the centuries, and with an avalanche of other incredible support such as: Jesus was the word (logos-never means a person), and Jesus now created the Universe and the world, and Jesus rid himself of his divinity (if one can describe this as if they know what they speaking about) somehow, somewhere and then somehow, somewhere installed it back into himself like spiritual surgery or a computer program installation before entering heaven.

And the lies keep on coming, as twisted, forced interpretations of scripture, to conform to a Trinity that is incomprehensible and deceitful. Worshipers of a Trinity do not worship God the Father as YHWH only as they cannot deny. They lack faith of what YHWH can do and how he planned to save us from the acts of the 1st Adam, another 100 percent man, created by YHWH.

Clear I hope,

Bless you,

APAK

More heretical nonsense

 

[APAK]

More heretical nonsense

And as you looked into your mirror and saw your true self, as you said these self-incriminating words, you are very smug with yourself. Never to change your self-righteous views as you have the disease that imprisons you, in the chains of the Trinity. Sad indeed.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

And as you looked into your mirror and saw your true self, as you said these self-incriminating words, you are very smug with yourself. Never to change your self-righteous views as you have the disease that imprisons you, in the chains of the Trinity. Sad indeed.

No Holy Trinity equals no Christian. Period.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I dare nothing, this is what the Bible says.

Well this is obvious...I said I don't dare judge anyone....
And this is what MY Bible says..:):)
Jesus said:
Matthew 7 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Judge not, that ye be not judged.
² For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
³ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
⁴ Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
⁵ Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Hemlock]

Is it a judgement to judge someone as judgemental?

How is calling someone judgemental not a judgement in itself?

 

[Wrangler]

Is it a judgement to judge someone as judgemental?

How is calling someone judgemental not a judgement in itself?

Great question. Putting aside the difference between judgment and judgmental, the question of judging is one of the most misunderstood in all Christendom. Verse 2 makes is clear in modern English, the prohibition is against one of the only sins Jesus condemned, which is hypocrisy.

Scripture does not prohibit judging. Such a take is modern people misunderstanding an obsolete Middle English translation. Jesus is saying that you will be called out as a hypocrite if you expect to be judged by a different set of standards than you judge others.

Getting back to differentiating between judgment and judgmental; of course we have to judge all day long, every day, such as are you driving too much to the left or right, too fast or too slow. In other words, you have to judge yourself constantly. Regarding judging others, there are 4 Scripturally supported authorities and unless the person you are judging is under your authority, you are being judgmental. The 4 authorities on Earth according to Scripture are:

1. Parents
2. Husband
3. Master (boss)
4. Civil authorities

If you are judgmental, you are wasting your time. I don't believe it brings glory to God to waste the precious gift of life we experience through time.

Jesus: If you judge other people, then you will find that you, too, are being judged. 2 Indeed, you will be judged by the very standards to which you hold other people.
Matthew 7:1-2 (VOICE)

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Well this is obvious...I said I don't dare judge anyone....
And this is what MY Bible says..:):)
Jesus said:
Matthew 7 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Judge not, that ye be not judged.
² For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
³ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
⁴ Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
⁵ Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

You are misusing the Bible!

 

[Heart2Soul]

You are misusing the Bible!

It's Jesus who spoke...I can't see how this is misuse...you have to clarify your statement. Without clarification you are simply stating an opinion that is held by you. Back it up...prove me wrong...I don't mind seeing the truth.
The Truth sets me free. Amen?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Is it a judgement to judge someone as judgemental?

How is calling someone judgemental not a judgement in itself?

I would take that up with God. It's His Word.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Is it a judgement to judge someone as judgemental?

How is calling someone judgemental not a judgement in itself?

Oh and if you noticed I didn't judge anyone. I simply stated what I would or wouldn't do.