I'm Pretty Sure That Jesus Wasn't Talking About This
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Even so! Some people may preach to prepare this or that in readiness with food and physical weapons, but the most important thing is to be ready to hear and to obey the Word of God in us as the Holy Ghost directs us. Don't worry about those things. This does not mean, Do nothing... but do not worry, for that is certainly wasted effort:
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
All alone we will lose the most important battles to be fought. God however never loses any battle in which He participates. This is why we must always be on His side.
"Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness; and all of these things shall be added unto you. "!
God is the One adding. What does He add? That which He sees as being necessary. We must not tempt God by presuming we know what He needs to add or to do...!
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I'm going to be going outside for a bit but since he is a retired policeman, I just wanted to tag @pompadour because I am really curious how he feels about this whole entire nonsense about defunding the police.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
I think to turn the other cheek is to not repay evil for evil. But at the same time I think we have a God given right to defend our families and friends. There is no greater love than to lay your life down for a Freind. We have the God given blessing to have a sword and a constitutional right as well.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind.
I believe in self-defense, in the police, and in the military. Call me a "conservative" in regard to this stuff. Fools let themselves get slapped silly, doing nothing to defend themselves.
So I don't believe Jesus was speaking of situations that required self-defense. After all, at another point in his ministry Jesus told his disciples to get themselves a sword, a weapon of self-defense.
Besides, Jesus was not ignorant of the OT Scriptures. He was a descendant of the Davidic kings, and knew full well they were called upon, at times, to defend themselves against hostile neighbors. War is not evil--there is such a thing as a just war.
So what was Jesus talking about when he said just stand there and take it? He was referring to our being willing to take abuse *if God wills for us to do so.* These things require "at the time" discernment. Sometimes a person does just have to take the abuse.
I remember that Paul was at one time slapped by a high priest. Only Paul didn't know that he was the high priest, and countered with an insult. After being informed that he had just insulted the high priest, Paul apologized, because God at that point in time told him his Christian witness required that of him.
We just have to be in "real time," and "hear God," sister. Good words. Keep 'em coming!
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Woah now...
Major misunderstanding of the difference between suffering and accepting of abuse...I think James said something about this.... maybe it was Paul.
Suffering is far removed from abuse.
Abuse is the worst thing you can do to anybody and gets the worst punishment from God possible.
Righteous Suffering doesn't mean that we should ever allow ourselves to be put in abusive situations or allow others to do the same. That's just masochistic and self flagellation...and of no value. That's what the guns are for. To resist evil thugs. To keep pearls from being cast before swine. Kill that hog if you can. Barbeque that thing and serve it up with some awesome BBQ sauce.
I prefer a 6-12 hour slow roast myself.
That whole "turn the other cheek" thing was about not getting into a blood feud and Hatfield vs McCoy style fighting. Forgiveness is better than being known as a someone all caught up solely in fighting.
Even the little old lady who sued McDonald's over getting burnt from a cup of coffee was righteous in her lawsuit...but the Judge gave her an award, that while financially beneficial and reasonable, wasn't what she wanted. Her name is now synonymous with unrighteous lawsuits. She just wanted the money for the medical bills and clothes...not really concerned about the clothes. But McDonald's refused and created a slander campaign...they also were guilty of not having coffee specifications...they measure and calibrate and precision time EVERY item in the place...to have nothing on coffee was unconscionable in the Judge's view and part of his decision...so he gave the little old lady one day's worth of profits McDonald's makes from coffee sales as punitive in addition to her medical bills... dunno about the clothes.
But I know that I wouldn't want any part of that. So avoid lawsuits...
Major misunderstanding of the difference between suffering and accepting of abuse...I think James said something about this.... maybe it was Paul.
Suffering is far removed from abuse.
Abuse is the worst thing you can do to anybody and gets the worst punishment from God possible.
Righteous Suffering doesn't mean that we should ever allow ourselves to be put in abusive situations or allow others to do the same. That's just masochistic and self flagellation...and of no value. That's what the guns are for. To resist evil thugs. To keep pearls from being cast before swine. Kill that hog if you can. Barbeque that thing and serve it up with some awesome BBQ sauce.
I prefer a 6-12 hour slow roast myself.
That whole "turn the other cheek" thing was about not getting into a blood feud and Hatfield vs McCoy style fighting. Forgiveness is better than being known as a someone all caught up solely in fighting.
Even the little old lady who sued McDonald's over getting burnt from a cup of coffee was righteous in her lawsuit...but the Judge gave her an award, that while financially beneficial and reasonable, wasn't what she wanted. Her name is now synonymous with unrighteous lawsuits. She just wanted the money for the medical bills and clothes...not really concerned about the clothes. But McDonald's refused and created a slander campaign...they also were guilty of not having coffee specifications...they measure and calibrate and precision time EVERY item in the place...to have nothing on coffee was unconscionable in the Judge's view and part of his decision...so he gave the little old lady one day's worth of profits McDonald's makes from coffee sales as punitive in addition to her medical bills... dunno about the clothes.
But I know that I wouldn't want any part of that. So avoid lawsuits...
And if someone hits me?
Smack that idiot to the ground and use my steel toe boots to leave a sore place on his buttocks that he will feel every time he tries to sit down...I mean make it deep and to the bone.
And attacking one of my loved ones?
He needs police protection...there is safety for him only in solitary confinement.
Smack that idiot to the ground and use my steel toe boots to leave a sore place on his buttocks that he will feel every time he tries to sit down...I mean make it deep and to the bone.
And attacking one of my loved ones?
He needs police protection...there is safety for him only in solitary confinement.
I believe in self-defense, in the police, and in the military. Call me a "conservative" in regard to this stuff. Fools let themselves get slapped silly, doing nothing to defend themselves.
So I don't believe Jesus was speaking of situations that required self-defense. After all, at another point in his ministry Jesus told his disciples to get themselves a sword, a weapon of self-defense.
Besides, Jesus was not ignorant of the OT Scriptures. He was a descendant of the Davidic kings, and knew full well they were called upon, at times, to defend themselves against hostile neighbors. War is not evil--there is such a thing as a just war.
So what was Jesus talking about when he said just stand there and take it? He was referring to our being willing to take abuse *if God wills for us to do so.* These things require "at the time" discernment. Sometimes a person does just have to take the abuse.
I remember that Paul was at one time slapped by a high priest. Only Paul didn't know that he was the high priest, and countered with an insult. After being informed that he had just insulted the high priest, Paul apologized, because God at that point in time told him his Christian witness required that of him.
We just have to be in "real time," and "hear God," sister. Good words. Keep 'em coming!
I guess just like I'm more than prepared to take the verbal abuse by the opposition when I go and evoke the first amendment and speak to my congressman.
Words of wisdom however,.. I don't like how he kept saying "he" all the time because policewomen deserve credit too.
Oh yeah,.. remember what I told you before? You would go all Linda Blair mode and then probably break all their bones and use them for boomarangs if somebody were to even remotely touch me or anybody else in your family in a harmful way. Best start making the funeral arrangements then.
Oh yeah,.. remember what I told you before? You would go all Linda Blair mode and then probably break all their bones and use them for boomarangs if somebody were to even remotely touch me or anybody else in your family in a harmful way. Best start making the funeral arrangements then.
Oh...all kinds of thugs that couldn't keep outta jail are there for me...they are used to following what I say...I got friends in high and low places.
April Rose:When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind.
Matt 5:38-42...Jesus does not speak to the 2nd Amendment here.....it is all about personal, non-judicial, non-life-threatening attacks and offenses that can have the potential to lead into or to escalate into evil, more evil and even more serious consequences and repercussions.
In verse 38, Jesus shows his support for the magistrate public form of justice of fairness and equality. To dish out the same kind of punishment for the same type of crime, nothing less and nothing more; an 'eye for an eye' expression is used. This was the type of justice predominant for centuries before Christ. Jesus just acknowledged it presence and implicitly agreed with this type of justice. This was his backdrop and introduction into personal justice or even personal revenge.
In verse 39, Jesus announced a new way to conduct our private form of justice, and I believe especially for new convert. The gist of it is to not to take personal revenge as the public community system operates. To not take justice into one's own hands. If someone slights us, or we are offended, or even bruised in our ego or even body, not to the point of death or a threat of death, we are to yield and give way. This type of attack upon us is usually evil and not accidental. Jesus set a very low bar for what he considers evil. Just look in verse 37. Even making promises after to agreeing on something can be evil or potentially evil. Just say yes or no, I will or I won't. Anything more can lead into evil and temptation.
He uses the public slapping face ritual as a convenient example of personal justice being executed. This type of public shaming was common in Christ's time and it kept its form even centuries later. Not only the hand, the glove was also used to slap both cheeks of the face as a sign of disgust with someone. And it was not necessarily evil in nature or intent.
So Jesus was saying if one slaps one of your cheeks, do not resist or back away, do allow the other cheek to be slapped as well. A believer is to minimize and avoid getting into disputes and quarrels that can lead to a more serious or even deadly situations. We are not to be a part of causing evil, or allow evil to persist or increase because of our actions. We are to allow the event to run its course, even at the expense of us.
In Matt 5:40 -42 Jesus gives more examples: if sued for clothing give them more of our belongings, to avoid a dispute when someone is forcing us to do something we are not willing to do, go the extra mile with them, and if someone wants something of ours, give it to them. All this to avoid being part of a potential new quarrel, dispute or the possibility of increasing tensions and even more evil aggression. Whether it encompasses evil at time or not, it could lead into evil by the way we react.
Now to be clear, Jesus never said to not resist evil when it threatens your life or limb. If there is no physical escape route and we are under the threat of immediate life threatening danger, we must defend ourselves and those around us who are also in the same environment.
That is where your firearms, knifes, swords, effective martial arts and street fighting techniques come vitally important and necessary.
Hope this helps AR
APAK
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GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Jesus and His Apostles all did.When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind.
Never asked disciples to defend them--the opposite actually John 18:10-11, John 18:36.
Don't get your American Patriotism mixed up with Christianity.
What?? American patriotism and Christianity go hand in hand and clearly you've missed everything that has been said thus far. Now can you sail under the command of a pirate? Or can you not? *Ahem* Sorry about that last part mate I was getting a bit carried away.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
No, they don't.What?? American patriotism and Christianity go hand in hand and clearly you've missed everything that has been said thus far. Now can you sail under the command of a pirate? Or can you not? *Ahem* Sorry about that last part mate I was getting a bit carried away.
If the Founders had acted on Christian morals, they would have SUBMITTED to the King of England as he had been placed there by God.
Then why does our Pledge of Allegiance say "one nation under GOD?" And our currency read " In GOD we trust?"
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
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