When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind. 
I'm Pretty Sure That Jesus Wasn't Talking About This
- Thread starter April_Rose
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GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Luke 22:36
Jesus says====“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Jesus says====“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Slow down a bit and smell the coffee.When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind.
Jesus did just stand there and he took it. He did not try to run away when they came for him in the garden led by one of his own followers [Judas] and he did not resist at all. This is what he says about himself and his sacrifice of his own physical life:
"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father" John 10:17-18
Jesus did it! Why would we not do the same if God asked it of us? Does God ask the same things of every person? People really were put out in the arena in Rome because they refuse to deny their faith in God and His Son. These are hard times today, and they may get worse. What does Jesus say about persecution?
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20
What do Apostle Paul's words here mean?
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2
And then the specific reference about not resisting evil according to Jesus:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." Matt 5:38-41
Why did God create us? What does He expect or require from us?
Whoa, whoa, whoa wait!!! Hold on a second and rewind back to the first part you said. The only reason that Jesus took it is because He was taking our punishment. He probably would have fought back otherwise. Second of all,.. that makes it sound like God wants us to be in abusive relationships and what about children who are abused by their parents? Also, the government is currently pushing for communism. Does that mean that we're just supposed to sit back and let them have the absolute power over us? I don't think so!!! That's why I'm going to be writing to my congressman next week and fighting back even if I have to do it all on my lonesome,.. even if nobody on here believes that I can. God wouldn't stand for all of this and tagging @JohnDB because I'm really curious what his comments are about this. America was founded on Christianity, so if it were against God to have the right to bear arms,.. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be stated in the US Constitution and we wouldn't have our military. God bless our troops!!!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Psa 144:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
Psa 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.
This is an interesting psalm. I see the armour of the Lord written all over it.
I'm all for the turn the other cheek if the offense is against me personally.
But if I need to put my life on the line for an elder or a child, one that can't defend themselves,
then it's take up the sword and fight to save them, not myself.
does this make sense?
Hugs
Psa 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.
This is an interesting psalm. I see the armour of the Lord written all over it.
I'm all for the turn the other cheek if the offense is against me personally.
But if I need to put my life on the line for an elder or a child, one that can't defend themselves,
then it's take up the sword and fight to save them, not myself.
does this make sense?
Hugs
That's my point. Sometimes turn the other cheek isn't an option,... And unless we just want to roll over like dogs for the democrats, then it isn't an option right now either and I'm not going down without a fight!
LOL...When He was talking about letting people slap us and just stand there and take it, I don't think He meant for us literally to become punching bags,.. so if that's why you guys don't believe in self-defense then that's just crazy in my mind.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think the eye for eye and tooth for tooth is a kind of self-justification for taking matters into ones own hands.
You slapped me, therefore I have the right to slap you back.
But we're supposed to be above that and know when to walk away.
It's not about having revenge on one's enemy.
It's about not allowing oneself to fall into the trap the enemy sets before you.
If they sue you for your coat...
Don't sue them back and play their game..
give them your coat also..
they have no leg to stand on.
Have to be smarter and wiser.
Hugs
You slapped me, therefore I have the right to slap you back.
But we're supposed to be above that and know when to walk away.
It's not about having revenge on one's enemy.
It's about not allowing oneself to fall into the trap the enemy sets before you.
If they sue you for your coat...
Don't sue them back and play their game..
give them your coat also..
they have no leg to stand on.
Have to be smarter and wiser.
Hugs
@April_Rose , the reason this is a can of worms is that the bible spells out both. To follow Jesus and take up your cross, and also to defend Christianity. Because of it Christians either become passivists or activists. The passivist dies before taking up his sword, the activist fights for freedom to worship God.
Moses fought so that the slaves could worship God. Jesus laid down his life for man.
You appear to have learned enough wisdom to know the difference. I believe the same, that we should fight if we have the chance to defend our right to worship our God. So its the wisdom/serenity prayer:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
Moses fought so that the slaves could worship God. Jesus laid down his life for man.
You appear to have learned enough wisdom to know the difference. I believe the same, that we should fight if we have the chance to defend our right to worship our God. So its the wisdom/serenity prayer:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
TheslightestID
Active Member
People, people, don't just stand there and let someone beat on you.
Back in high school, some kid wanted to start a fight with me, he literally slapped one cheeck, and with the scripture in mind, I did nothing. Then he slapped the other, at which point, I blacked out and the next thing I knew he was sitting on the floor leaned against the wall with a bloody nose, and I was standing there without a mark on me. I had no recolection of what I did to him, and had to ask onlookers what happened....very very weird.
We only have two cheeks, I turned the other, and technically, that was all that was required of me. Our minds are designed to involontarily defend ourselves, l mean, let someone start strangling you and see if your hands don't automatically go into action to try to defend yourself. If that isn't enough, piain is a warning to do something about what is hurting us. for instance, we don't just sit there if someone is pouring scalding water on us, we try to stop them.
Pretty elementary stuff here.
Back in high school, some kid wanted to start a fight with me, he literally slapped one cheeck, and with the scripture in mind, I did nothing. Then he slapped the other, at which point, I blacked out and the next thing I knew he was sitting on the floor leaned against the wall with a bloody nose, and I was standing there without a mark on me. I had no recolection of what I did to him, and had to ask onlookers what happened....very very weird.
We only have two cheeks, I turned the other, and technically, that was all that was required of me. Our minds are designed to involontarily defend ourselves, l mean, let someone start strangling you and see if your hands don't automatically go into action to try to defend yourself. If that isn't enough, piain is a warning to do something about what is hurting us. for instance, we don't just sit there if someone is pouring scalding water on us, we try to stop them.
Pretty elementary stuff here.
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@April_Rose
"But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God" Matt 26:63
Then Jesus responded. As to laying down his life, he did that because it was what God wanted him to do.
How many of us know just what God wants us to do? We are free to go our own way and do whatever pleases us first in this world of men, but if that causes us to miss what God really wants us to do, we may find ourselves on the outside of God's camp.
Jesus was silent when the abuse was against him personally. He only opened his mouth when the high priest pressed Jesus before God:
"But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God" Matt 26:63
Then Jesus responded. As to laying down his life, he did that because it was what God wanted him to do.
How many of us know just what God wants us to do? We are free to go our own way and do whatever pleases us first in this world of men, but if that causes us to miss what God really wants us to do, we may find ourselves on the outside of God's camp.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Maybe you mean a can of ants...
Did you see Rand Paul give a list of government waste? One of them being a study of "Will people eat ants to curb global warming"
or some such thing like that.
Maybe we should open a can of ants instead of worms to save the environment..
This year, Paul identified $54,746,524,505.37 in government waste, which includes studies on consuming ground-up bugs ($1,327,781.72) as well as the prevalence of party drug use at NYC clubs and raves ($1,454,217).
Rand Paul Releases 'Festivus' List of Grievances over Government Waste
Did you see Rand Paul give a list of government waste? One of them being a study of "Will people eat ants to curb global warming"
or some such thing like that.
Maybe we should open a can of ants instead of worms to save the environment..
This year, Paul identified $54,746,524,505.37 in government waste, which includes studies on consuming ground-up bugs ($1,327,781.72) as well as the prevalence of party drug use at NYC clubs and raves ($1,454,217).
Rand Paul Releases 'Festivus' List of Grievances over Government Waste
This is a tad bit off topic but not all that much actually since it speaks of fighting back,... But does everybody realize that all police officers should be fed up with all of mankind and wanting to resign right now? If they did, I certainly wouldn't and couldn't blame them after all the negative press they've recently received.
Technically if he physically hit you you wouldn't have needed to wait any longer though but you're right.
This is a tad bit off topic but not all that much actually since it speaks of fighting back,... But does everybody realize that all police officers should be fed up with all of mankind and wanting to resign right now? If they did, I certainly wouldn't and couldn't blame them after all the negative press they've recently received.
Then it's a good time to be a gun owner. Back before industrialization they all had guns and it was a way of life, defending your home against criminals, because the police weren't just a phone call away. And the only thing stopping the evil from trespassing against your God given rights was you and your sidearm.
We must also remember, God is the worthy judge and he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and when he returns he will destroy again (not that he doesn't actively destroy today):
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
But he will save those he saves before hand, the rest in the lake of fire.
Jesus laid down his life on the cross for a sacrifice. But that is not his normal judgment type:
Deuteronomy 32:39-41
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
But he will save those he saves before hand, the rest in the lake of fire.
Jesus laid down his life on the cross for a sacrifice. But that is not his normal judgment type:
Deuteronomy 32:39-41
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
JazzyJeff15
Well-Known Member
I believe the real battle for us is to protect the integrity and values of the church
I think im at the point where if someone struck me i would offer them my other cheek. But if someone is picking a fight with someone who isnt capable of defending themselves, please believe im gonna put my boxing skills to use
I think im at the point where if someone struck me i would offer them my other cheek. But if someone is picking a fight with someone who isnt capable of defending themselves, please believe im gonna put my boxing skills to use
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