Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[kcnalp]

So to you works is what makes someone a Christian and not the new birth? that is sad and very legalistic.

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian! James said so! Why are you challenging James?

James 2:20 (NKJV)
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[theefaith]

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

washing
Spirit

where have I heard this before

oh ya ez36 and Jn 3:5

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

All baptismal regeneration

a new creation new creature in Christ

 

[theefaith]

The new birth is faith and baptism

never faith alone

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

worthless are the words of an excommunicated heretic!

Luther demanded a council to addressing his ideas, and they condemned them all!

if anyone says a man may be justified by faith alone let him be anathema!

only faith and the sacraments are biblical
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

I guess you'll have to count most Protestants anathema! There should be a special section for us in Purgatory ... that is such a big load, it will take awhile. Say a few Hail Mary's for us will ya and ask a few of those
Saints as well to chip it - we need all the help we can get.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think people fail to realize we are saved by grace period. It is but by the grace of God through the redemption in Christ Jesus that was are saved. But God is not going to force it on us he offers it to all people. But his offer is foolishness to the human spirit, to think that God himself would come and pay the debt for mankind that all we have to do is in faith receive this gift and our debt is paid in full is against human logic, that’s why the worlds religions are based on works, how good we are, or what type of religious things we have done

in order to have true saving faith we must become like the tax collector or as Jesus said, poor (bankrupt) in spirit, calling out to God for mercy. Because we have full repented, and realize we have no other option.

This is what the law teaches, God gave moses a list of commands, and said this is what you are to do. Then he made Moses make the children of Israel confirm that they would obey every word (perfection) this is us achievable, only Christ has met this standard. No one else has. So all have sinned and fall short, when we realise this fact, the law tells us then also what must be done, the shed blood of redemption. Which CHrist did on the cross as lamb of God, as Jesus told nicodemus, he must be raised like Moses raised the serpent, that whoever believes has eternal life.

another thing the flesh will never accept. That Jesus paid the debt in full and just saying yes in faith to God one will never hunger or thirst, never die, live forever and has eternal life (john 6). Eternal security is also shunned. As again, people can not believe our sin debt is paid in full and we have nothing we can offer. The human flesh wants to pay its own debt, its proud, its self seeking, and it will reject the true gospel and try to make their own gospel that suits their desires and their beliefs,

that’s why narrow is the gate,

The simplicty of the gospel . BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS , CALL UPON THE LORD AND YE SHALL BE SAVED .
Yep .
JESUS actually says what the only condemnation is . THEY WONT COME TO THE LIGHT .
AND HE says why . CAUSE it would expose , reprove their deeds and they love the darkness , they love sin .
Lest their deeds should be reproved .

 

[theefaith]

Neither Titus 3:5 or John 3:5 refer to baptismal regeneration, but to spiritual cleansing. See John (4:10,14: 7:37-39; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

Again, Paul is stressing the importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13 and is not teaching salvation by faith plus love/acts of charity/works.

Being merciful is descriptive of those who are born of God.

whatever!

spiritual anarchy won’t cut it

by the washing of regeneration,

baptism

faith alone is not made in prophecy in the OT or taught in the NT but faith and sacraments are
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 ez 36:25-27

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

 

[mailmandan]

whatever!

spiritual anarchy won’t cut it

by the washing of regeneration,

baptism

faith alone is not made in prophecy in the OT or taught in the NT but faith and sacraments are
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 ez 36:25-27

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Baptismal regeneration/salvation by works is heresy and you can twist and misinterpret those passages of scripture above all you want in a vain effort to accommodate your biased church doctrine, but it doesn’t change the fact that man is saved through faith and not by works. Period. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; 3:15 etc..).

 

[theefaith]

I guess you'll have to count most Protestants anathema! There should be a special section for us in Purgatory ... that is such a big load, it will take awhile. Say a few Hail Mary's for us will ya and ask a few of those
Saints as well to chip it - we need all the help we can get.

religion is a joke to you?
A holy apostolic council under the authority of Christ means nothing to you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

religion is a joke to you?
A holy apostolic council under the authority of Christ means nothing to you?

the bible means nothing to you?

The jews tried to give God religion. We see where it took them.

 

[theefaith]

Baptismal regeneration/salvation by works is heresy and you can twist and misinterpret those passages of scripture above all you want in a vain effort to accommodate your biased church doctrine, but it doesn’t change the fact that man is saved through faith and not by works. Period. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; 3:15 etc..).

those refer to redemption not justification or salvation

baptism is not works of the law either
It’s not any works cos you cannot baptize yourself

ez 36:25-27 faith and sacraments are prophecy where you’re ot prophecy of “faith alone” or any New Testament teaching for that matter

Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism

1 pet 3:20 baptism now saves us!

 

[theefaith]

the bible means nothing to you?

The jews tried to give God religion. We see where it took them.

total spiritual anarchy
No authority of Christ over his church

God is the author of religion

religion is what man owes to God for creating and redeeming him

worship
Adoration
Reparation
Thanksgiving
Petition

 

[Eternally Grateful]

those refer to redemption not justification or salvation

baptism is not works of the law either
It’s not any works cos you cannot baptize yourself

ez 36:25-27 faith and sacraments are prophecy where you’re ot prophecy of “faith alone” or any New Testament teaching for that matter

Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism

1 pet 3:20 baptism now saves us!

redemption is the means of salvation and justification.

You need to get out of religion and start studying the word my friend.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

total spiritual anarchy
No authority of Christ over his church

God is the author of religion

religion is what man owes to God for creating and redeeming him

worship
Adoration
Reparation
Thanksgiving
Petition

Yep God is the author.

And the thing he gave us to make sure we listen to his word and no one deceives us is the word of God. Not men.

When anyone stands in front of God he will not say did you listen to the pope. he will ask why you did not study his word. (if you were wrong in your thinking of his word)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

religion is a joke to you?
A holy apostolic council under the authority of Christ means nothing to you?

Not religion, just the condemning allegations you posted. I often throw in a little humor sometimes.
You can dish it out but you can't take it!

 

[mailmandan]

those refer to redemption not justification or salvation

baptism is not works of the law either
It’s not any works cos you cannot baptize yourself

ez 36:25-27 faith and sacraments are prophecy where you’re ot prophecy of “faith alone” or any New Testament teaching for that matter

Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism

1 pet 3:20 baptism now saves us!

Baptism is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:13-15) and Paul clearly stated we are not saved by works of righteousness. (Titus 3:5) Works are not merely limited to specific works of the law.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions nine different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son Of God.

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.

We’ve been over all of this before.

 

[theefaith]

redemption is the means of salvation and justification.

Myra therefore it is not justification or salvation
Justification is the merits of the blood of redemption applied to our souls in the sacraments of Christ

Salvation is our persevering in that state of grace till death matt 24:13

You need to get out of religion and start studying the word my friend.

Religion:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God

a particular system of faith and worship.

you can’t have a covenant without religion
Religion is what man owes to God for his creation and redemption

 

[theefaith]

Yep God is the author.

And the thing he gave us to make sure we listen to his word and no one deceives us is the word of God. Not men.

When anyone stands in front of God he will not say did you listen to the pope. he will ask why you did not study his word. (if you were wrong in your thinking of his word)

where is that in the Bible?

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Religion:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God

a particular system of faith and worship.

you can’t have a covenant without religion
Religion is what man owes to God for his creation and redemption

You just hit the nail on the head

Religion is Man telling God look at me and all I have done

Christianity is about God saying look at me and all the work I have done.

God rejects religion. He will share his glory with no one.

 

[theefaith]

Not religion, just the condemning allegations you posted. I often throw in a little humor sometimes.
You can dish it out but you can't take it!

those condemnations are from a holy apostolic council having the authority of Christ Matt 16:18 18:18 bound on earth bound in heaven
If any man say you may be justified by faith alone let him be anathema

 

[theefaith]

Baptism is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:13-15) and Paul clearly stated we are not saved by works of righteousness. (Titus 3:5) Works are not merely limited to specific works of the law.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions nine different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son Of God.

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.

We’ve been over all of this before.

2000 yrs of church history contradict you totally

you cannot enter a covenant by faith alone!

those condemnations are from a holy apostolic council having the authority of Christ Matt 16:18 18:18 bound on earth bound in heaven
If any man say you may be justified by faith alone let him be anathema