No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

[Randy Kluth]

No such thing as a Jewish Church.

Actually, that is often Jewish propaganda. I argued the point over the course of 10 years. Jews want you to believe that being Jewish is a religion, and as such, Jews *cannot* become Christians! Well, being Jewish is not just a religion--it is also an ethnicity. And any ethnicity can become a Christian! And if Jews can convert from Judaism to Christianity, then ethnic Jews can indeed become Christians, and the Jewish People can be part of the international Church.

There is not a Christian Church either.

Now, you're totally losing me!!

The church are those redeemed from Abel to the last person raptured at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. They are Adam's family living in Paradise prepared for all of Adam's offspring who choose to live in that heavenly city.

You do realize that "The Adams' Family" is an old TV series, don't you? So you're saying that because the Church started with Adam, in the OT era, that there is nothing to make the whole collective Body a "Christian" body?

The sheep, wheat, and 144k are firstfruits to live on earth in the earthly Jerusalem. Their offspring populate the whole earth for 1000 years. Those resurrected in Revelation 20:4 are the ruling forbears over billions of offspring.

I believe the 144,000 is a symbolic representation of Christian believers in Israel in the last days. As such, they will be part of the Church that is glorified at Jesus' Coming at the end of the age. It is at that time that Israel will be both judged and converted.

Those who remain in Israel will reconstitute into a Christian nation, and live as mortals in the Millennial Age. The Christians of this age, including the "144,000" will be glorified and reign with Christ for 1000 years--probably from a different dimension than the mortals on earth.

 

[GISMYS_7]

God allowed Noah to escape the flood wrath judgment by shuting the door to the ark and God told Lot that judgment was about to fall on Sodom and angles helped lot escape that wrath and judgment and so it will be with God'family.
God does NOT pour out His wrath on His family. THINK!!!
God's Word says pray that you be counted worthy to escape God's wrath on this evil world and PTL we are not appointed to wrath ="" that is why the rapture"" and also we aren't appointed to God's wrath!!!PTL.

 

[marks]

The thing I find difficult to comprehend is that Christians go away in a Rapture, and then suddenly new-born Christians are supposed to find Christ, without the Church to witness to them, mature in difficult circumstances without elders to help them, and then immediate find maturity to stand up to Antichristian deception in the world. And they say a countless multitude grows up in these insane, Antichristian conditions in the course of just 7 years?

This innumerable multitude is, I think, the church raptured. I don't see millions and millions coming to Christ after the rapture. Thessalonians tells about the working of error in those who refused to receive the love of the truth and thereby be saved.

The final 7 years is not about the saving of the gentiles, that time is now, though some will be saved then. That time is for the saving of Israel, and after the church is raptured, 144,000 will be sealed and begin to go through the towns of Israel.

These, and the 2 witnesses, will be God's witness to the world after the church is removed. And again, these will be for Israel. Some gentiles will be saved, I think, but I agree, it will not be an easy time.

And based on the sheep/goats judgment, and other things, there will be some serious differences between now and then.

But do consider, that God's grace is sufficient for the moment, including a new believer standing true to the faith to death. And in fact, that's all that will be asked of them.

Revelation 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The time will come when the one thing remaining to do is to die the martyr's death, a witness.

That will be God's witness to the world, which the world will ignore, not being worthy of knowing what real honor is. But God will not allow the world to shut their eyes, angels will fly through the sky warning the world, and preaching the gospel.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Actually, that is often Jewish propaganda. I argued the point over the course of 10 years. Jews want you to believe that being Jewish is a religion, and as such, Jews *cannot* become Christians! Well, being Jewish is not just a religion--it is also an ethnicity. And any ethnicity can become a Christian! And if Jews can convert from Judaism to Christianity, then ethnic Jews can indeed become Christians, and the Jewish People can be part of the international Church.

There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. Becoming a Christian means that you are no longer associated or disassociated with national Israel, there is no consideration in that regard.

So even when I say gentile church I guess that's incorrect, we are simply the church, and are neither Jew nor gentile.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. Becoming a Christian means that you are no longer associated or disassociated with national Israel, there is no consideration in that regard.

So even when I say gentile church I guess that's incorrect, we are simply the church, and are neither Jew nor gentile.

Much love!

I don't agree. Our nationality is dismissed only with respect to being qualified to be in covenant with God. We no longer have to be Jewish to be part of God's covenant, which at one time was only through the Law. And the Law was only for Israel.

We are all now equally eligible to be in covenant with God through Christ, whose Gospel has been sent to *all nations.* Are nations important? Of course, God sent his Gospel to *all nations!*

 

[Randy Kluth]

This innumerable multitude is, I think, the church raptured. I don't see millions and millions coming to Christ after the rapture. Thessalonians tells about the working of error in those who refused to receive the love of the truth and thereby be saved.

The final 7 years is not about the saving of the gentiles, that time is now, though some will be saved then. That time is for the saving of Israel, and after the church is raptured, 144,000 will be sealed and begin to go through the towns of Israel.

These, and the 2 witnesses, will be God's witness to the world after the church is removed. And again, these will be for Israel. Some gentiles will be saved, I think, but I agree, it will not be an easy time.

And based on the sheep/goats judgment, and other things, there will be some serious differences between now and then.

But do consider, that God's grace is sufficient for the moment, including a new believer standing true to the faith to death. And in fact, that's all that will be asked of them.

Revelation 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The time will come when the one thing remaining to do is to die the martyr's death, a witness.

That will be God's witness to the world, which the world will ignore, not being worthy of knowing what real honor is. But God will not allow the world to shut their eyes, angels will fly through the sky warning the world, and preaching the gospel.

Much love!

Your scenario sounds like a completely different world than the one we've been having over the last 2000 years. But then again--that's Dispensationalism. All of a sudden, the Church is raptured by the millions, the world pays little attention, and suddenly the whole world has changed. I don't buy it, but I understand your position. Thanks.

 

[marks]

I don't agree. Our nationality is dismissed only with respect to being qualified to be in covenant with God. We no longer have to be Jewish to be part of God's covenant, which at one time was only through the Law. And the Law was only for Israel.

This goes towards how we will read a passage differently. Differing hermaneutics will always result in different views, I think.

Much love!

 

[marks]

All of a sudden, the Church is raptured by the millions, the world pays little attention,

The way I understand things, there will be quite a bit going on, and maybe the world won't even notice that the Christians are gone.

We can start simple I think. I understand there to be a remaining 70th week from Daniel's prophecy. At the beginning is the Gog/Magog invasion, the rapture of the church, and the openning of the seal including the cataclysms of the 6th seal. I think this includes the same earthquake in Ezekiel 38.

I see this 70th week being divided into halves, at the Abomination of Desolation, which is when the man of sin sits in the temple showing himself to be god.

Trumpets are sounded before the AOD, bowls poured out after. 2 witnesses prophesy for 3.5 years untouchable, then the beast is given authority for 3.5 years, killing the witnesses, and then everyone who will not worship the image.

At the end of the 3.5 years, Jesus returns, Israel is regathered to their land, the OT saints are raised, tribulation martyrs are raised. The gentiles are gathered and judged, and the kingdom age begins with God's remarraige to Israel, and the wedding feast of the Lamb.

Obviously there is a lot more to all of this. Anything you'd be interested in looking more closely at, that would be cool! So much Scripture to cover!

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

Of course Christian's will die today in tribulation, as they have died throughout history

You have a Sci-Fi scenario that every Christian on earth will be killed, wrong

The two Witnesses will rule the entire tribulation, bringing all plagues as Often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

How many Hebrews were running around scared and being killed in Egypt, how many Hebrews lost their first born on the passover?

Same situation during the tribulation, Gods two witnesses rule

Does it look like the Antichrist is the Boss below, Christians running around getting heads cut off, Big Smiles!

Tormented for 5 months, desiring to die as death flees, the "Sealed" Church is protected and you falsely teach the Antichrist is running around killing all Christians "Wrong"

You remain silent on that seen below, because you want to sell fear, in a pre-trib rapture to escape your man made sci-fi

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

There are only two literal humans as the two witnesses. There is no church. Those who are beheaded are resurrected. So the only escape from Death is to be beheaded. Otherwise you end up in the Lake of Fire, your name removed from the Lamb's book of Life. It is definitely not like the movies. No "Christians" running around escaping tribulation. People will be begging to have their head chopped off.

 

[David H.]

And the tribulation is divided in half - there’s general tribulation and then great tribulation wherein the mark of the beast and death for not taking it occurs for 42 months.

Look carefully at the word "Midst of", it is saying for half the week... In Other words the abomination lasts half of the week, Not placing it in the midst of the week.
Here is the translation from the ESV as that shows this better for you to see:
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week,[fn] and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” ( Daniel 9:27,ESV)

I Have looked at the original text here, and both the KJV and the ESV are grammatically correct. The ESV makes more sense from the
context In that the whole passage is speaking of a time of abominations. What your view and the Pre trib view in general does is say that Jesus comes multiple times, when understood properly he only comes once. He does not come once to rapture the church, once to destroy the beast, and thrice riding on white horse with His army of saints to rule in the millennium, he does all these things simultaneously at the second coming, The dead in Christ are raised, (Including the two witnesses) we who are alive are transformed, the man of sin is destroyed with the brightness of His coming, and he comes riding on his white horse with the army of saints to execute judgment on the wicked. The only reason why this takes so much time is that the armies will take time to gather at Armageddon, a Logistical nightmare with the armies the size described, especailly after the cataclysmic events preceding this event having likely destroyed large parts of the infrastructure of the world..... (Perhaps that is why they are riding horses?)

That being said, what I do agree with the Pretrib camp on is that there is a difference between the day of Christ and the Day of the LORD. Judgment begins at the house of God (1 Peter 4:17) And this is the wheat and tares judgment, and the result being the wrath of the Lamb. The Day of the LORD is a Judgment of the Wicked of the world By that time the church has been judged, and they are part of the army of saints executing this judgment..... "Know ye not that ye will judge the world, and angels?" (1 Corinthians 6:2-3)

Once you start to see this, the timeline just makes so much sense. I Have done elaborate posts trying to explain this, but there are so many built in assumptions in eschatological camps with each assumption bolstering specific viewpoint, such as the "midst of the week" assumption. Very few people are searching for the Truth without bias and an agenda in the various eschatological camps, It takes a desire to start from a point of not knowing (Socratic ignorance), and allowing unbiased reading of the text to determine the direction, something very few scholars are capable of.

suffice it to say, the book of Revelation is a supreme work of Art written by the Great Artist, and just when you think you have figured it out another layer of depth surfaces, if this is not your experience with this book, then your reading it wrong.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The way I understand things, there will be quite a bit going on, and maybe the world won't even notice that the Christians are gone.

We can start simple I think. I understand there to be a remaining 70th week from Daniel's prophecy. At the beginning is the Gog/Magog invasion, the rapture of the church, and the openning of the seal including the cataclysms of the 6th seal. I think this includes the same earthquake in Ezekiel 38.

I see this 70th week being divided into halves, at the Abomination of Desolation, which is when the man of sin sits in the temple showing himself to be god.

Trumpets are sounded before the AOD, bowls poured out after. 2 witnesses prophesy for 3.5 years untouchable, then the beast is given authority for 3.5 years, killing the witnesses, and then everyone who will not worship the image.

At the end of the 3.5 years, Jesus returns, Israel is regathered to their land, the OT saints are raised, tribulation martyrs are raised. The gentiles are gathered and judged, and the kingdom age begins with God's remarraige to Israel, and the wedding feast of the Lamb.

Obviously there is a lot more to all of this. Anything you'd be interested in looking more closely at, that would be cool! So much Scripture to cover!

Much love!

No need for me to learn more about Pretrib--I was Pretrib at one time. I may not know everything about your own particular view of Pretrib--I appreciate you sharing that. But it does have the same old familiar ring, and that sense of fiction--sorry, it just doesn't sound "biblical!"

 

[Timtofly]

I simply don't define the Reign of Antichrist as the "Time of Wrath," nor as a "Disciplinary Period." On the contrary, it is a time when good saints are encouraged to stand up and be beheaded. That is how the book of Revelation depicts it, not as absent the Church, nor as viewing a remorseful Church, repenting under the strain.

This is the final harvest. All of Adam's flesh and blood has to shed this corruptible flesh. When Jesus separates the sheep and goats those souls physically leave the body. No more physical life on earth in Adam's sin filled corruptible bodies, period!

When the tares are burned up those humans are literally removed from this flesh and sentenced to Death. When the wheat is gathered onto the barn, those souls are literally taken to the resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4. This is during the GT of the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus Christ and the 144k are gathering this harvest, and the souls are delivered by the angels through time to the end of the 7th Trumpet, the end of the 70th week, the first day of the Millennium, the Day of the Lord.

Christ and the 144k are not going to be on earth during Satan's 42 months. No judgment from God, but only Satan's utopia for those who worship him, and death for those who do not worship him. BTW, you can still get the mark, refuse to worship Satan, and Satan will kill you. It will be brother betraying brother over Satan's attention. Satan is not going around chopping heads off for those who want to follow Christ. Satan will kill only those who do not worship him, mark or no mark. Satan will make it so you cannot enjoy life if you refuse the mark. Then those who want to enjoy life and take the mark, can still be killed unless they start to worship Satan and his posse. Those killed who have the mark, are not going to live again, they are already removed from the Lamb's book of life, and under damnation.

The mark and worship do not necessarily go hand in hand, just like saying the church needs to or must go through this time of tribulation. Totally different in how many interpret Revelation. The church has already been completed and glorified prior to the final harvest. The church is no longer Steward of the vineyard. God on the throne has come to earth and the Lamb for this final harvest. Only if there is any harvest left, will Satan get 42 months.

The church is wrong for claiming she goes through this time. The church should have a golden harvest, so no one would be left to harvest, other than those Christ is gathering to live on earth for 1000 years. The church is not going to be on earth for those 1000 years. The church will be in Paradise, the temple of God, serving God day and night. Only after the New Jerusalem comes down will the church be on earth once more.

The Millennium is God starting over without sin, a sin nature, Adam's flesh and blood, and without Satan. Humans will live in incorruptible bodies. If the law is broken it is instant Death. No prisons or rehabilitation. Nations will be punished as a whole, but no individual crimes against humanity. Without sin nature, breaking the law, is open rebellion. We really have no idea of what life is like without sin. In fact some people refuse the notion, and deny the Millennium outright. Those living during the Millennium will not have grace from God and get away with denying God's plan of the Millennium. They also will not have Satan telling them, the Millennium is a bad idea.

 

[Timtofly]

This will be the first wave of repentance to be found in the tribulation, of those who realize they were wrong. It will be followed by many more such woes including the three great woes spoken of.

There is no Scripture for such repentance. This is human imagination that makes movies for human entertainment. Those people with their religion and by extension theology, will have to stick with their bad theology. The whore of religion goes all the way through until Death, never repenting.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is the final harvest. All of Adam's flesh and blood has to shed this corruptible flesh. When Jesus separates the sheep and goats those souls physically leave the body. No more physical life on earth in Adam's sin filled corruptible bodies, period!

When the tares are burned up those humans are literally removed from this flesh and sentenced to Death. When the wheat is gathered onto the barn, those souls are literally taken to the resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4. This is during the GT of the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus Christ and the 144k are gathering this harvest, and the souls are delivered by the angels through time to the end of the 7th Trumpet, the end of the 70th week, the first day of the Millennium, the Day of the Lord.

Christ and the 144k are not going to be on earth during Satan's 42 months. No judgment from God, but only Satan's utopia for those who worship him, and death for those who do not worship him. BTW, you can still get the mark, refuse to worship Satan, and Satan will kill you. It will be brother betraying brother over Satan's attention. Satan is not going around chopping heads off for those who want to follow Christ. Satan will kill only those who do not worship him, mark or no mark. Satan will make it so you cannot enjoy life if you refuse the mark. Then those who want to enjoy life and take the mark, can still be killed unless they start to worship Satan and his posse. Those killed who have the mark, are not going to live again, they are already removed from the Lamb's book of life, and under damnation.

The mark and worship do not necessarily go hand in hand, just like saying the church needs to or must go through this time of tribulation. Totally different in how many interpret Revelation. The church has already been completed and glorified prior to the final harvest. The church is no longer Steward of the vineyard. God on the throne has come to earth and the Lamb for this final harvest. Only if there is any harvest left, will Satan get 42 months.

The church is wrong for claiming she goes through this time. The church should have a golden harvest, so no one would be left to harvest, other than those Christ is gathering to live on earth for 1000 years. The church is not going to be on earth for those 1000 years. The church will be in Paradise, the temple of God, serving God day and night. Only after the New Jerusalem comes down will the church be on earth once more.

The Millennium is God starting over without sin, a sin nature, Adam's flesh and blood, and without Satan. Humans will live in incorruptible bodies. If the law is broken it is instant Death. No prisons or rehabilitation. Nations will be punished as a whole, but no individual crimes against humanity. Without sin nature, breaking the law, is open rebellion. We really have no idea of what life is like without sin. In fact some people refuse the notion, and deny the Millennium outright. Those living during the Millennium will not have grace from God and get away with denying God's plan of the Millennium. They also will not have Satan telling them, the Millennium is a bad idea.

I'm not sure where you're getting all of your ideas. Some of them appear to be "made up," because most of this I never hear. I do agree with some of it, though. I don't think the glorified Church will physically be on earth for any length of time during the 1000 years. But I could be wrong--not much is said about it.

I do think the Millennium will contain mortals with a sin nature. It will, I think, just be a continuation of life on earth just as it is now, though without Satan's power coercing international struggles. Much of this is pure speculation--I just can't say for sure. I am definitely Postrib, though.

 

[Timtofly]

Impossible! If God has been working to evangelize the world, through us, for 2000 years, how are a bunch of green, new-born Christians going to stand up against the Devil for 7 years, without the help of the Church?

7 years is a myth. Not found in Revelation.

God and Christ not present during the Trumpets and Thunders is a myth. Clearly the throne and the Lord of the vineyard can be seen at the 6th Seal, and never leaves. No soul is without excuse or knowledge.

No baby Christians. The church here on earth during this time is a myth. Even the 144k will be young. Not many today are virgins past 14. Even a child shall lead them. Suffer not these little children, for of such is the kingdom. You are spiritalizing in thought, what Jesus was literally pointing out would make up His army in this greatest time of tribulation.

These humans will be sealed and protected by God. They will have the knowledge of God. Sealed in the forehead. They may be called the church, they are in the Lamb's book of life. They are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom. Just like the 12 disciples were the firstfruits of the church, you keep stressing about, these 144k will be called out for the Millennium. We do not call the disciples the OT saints. They were the beginning of the NT. So claiming the church is here after the church is removed, and part of the future after the end of Daniel's 70 weeks is jumping the gun, like calling the 12 disciples leftover OT fruit.

The church is replaced, just like Israel was replaced in the first century. This time the Lord is seated on the throne, not on a Cross. Not just the Lord God. The Lamb will also sit on a throne in Jerusalem. That is Jesus' explanation in the OD.

Only if needs be, will Satan be allowed as Steward of the vineyard. That is the explanation of those 42 months. Not that Satan is predicted or prophecied to have 42 months. That is the worse case scenario, because the Church did fail in gathering a harvest as God did plan and intentioned on the Cross.

Christ will confirm the Atonement Covenant and it will come up short, or it will be satisfied, and no 42 months. Just the final harvest, and the winepress, and then the Millennium will begin.

 

[Timtofly]

I use the term for the sake of most people here because they have been taught the term "Great Tribulation" refers only to the last 7 years or the last 3.5 years of the current age, when Antichrist persecutes the Church.

People confuse the words in the verses.

Many come out of great tribulation. It does not say the great tribulation. This is the last 1991 years.

The next one is: "the tribulation of those days". This is, again, not the Great Tribulation. Those days are the last of the time the church will be around up until the 5th Seal.

Christ is on earth, not the church during the GT, the Trumpets and Thunders. Trumpets are calling Israel to judgment, sheep and goats.

Thunders are the harvest of the Nations after Israel is judged.

Then and only then will Satan be considered to any time, if the final harvest comes up short. Not because God or Christ failed. It is because the church failed and remained apostate instead of repenting, turning from wickedness, and seeking God's face. Remember the cry will be: hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne. Too late to seek God's face after the 6th Seal, the Second Coming, the church removed from the vineyard. Now is the time to seek God's face, so He can heal the Nations. Soon all will want to hide from that face.

That is the biggest reason the church is not here. It clearly says every single human will want to hide. The 144k have not been sealed yet. After they are sealed, they will not be afraid. The church is already sealed, raptured, changed, and glorified. No need to be sealed nor harvested after the 6th Seal for the church. It is just not fear or being afraid. It is knowing who makes sinners fearful and afraid, even to the point of death. The church is to seek God's face, not let sin get in the way.

 

[Timtofly]

The above defines what the Great Tribulation is, according to Jesus. As I said, it is a Jewish Punishment that began in 70 AD with the collapse of Judaism and continues until the end of the age. Nobody should deny this.

Judaism was not what collapsed in 70AD. Judaism is a strong religion today, just like so called Christianity, or Hinduism. All man made religions part of the end time religious beast. It was God's OT economy that was over when the veil in the temple was rent by God on the Cross. It was over at the Cross. The momentum of ideology came to a halt in 70AD. The now defunct economy had no more excuse to continue. The temple should have been abandoned no later than Pentecost. It was Herod's dynasty and some Herods kept it going past the expiration date. Theology will be the "Herod" of this generation and will keep trying to forge a path after the Lamb and God are physically seen by all on earth.

 

[Timtofly]

This is where most Prophecy teachers get it wrong. It is an assumption that comes from a linear reading of the book of Revelation, But the truth as I have come to see it is that Revelation is not linear, but a series of overlapping visions. Without getting into a long description of this, i use Matthew 24 as my timeline, Which clearly states the beginning of the end is the abomination of desolation. (Matthew 24:14-15)

Still not the answer. The abomination is allowed because the week of the 7th Trumpet is split in half with a 42 month period of desolation.

It is not split because Satan sets up an abomination. Satan gets to set up an abomination, because after Christ confirmed the Atonement Covenant, there was still a harvest of souls that needed to be harvested. The church failed to bring in her part of the harvest. Now many will have to have their head chopped off to be harvested and resurrected in Revelation 20:4.

 

[Timtofly]

The Church Is Caught Up And Resurrected Immediately After The Tribulation of those days, At The Second Coming

You left out some words. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

The Church normally goes through the tribulations of this fallen world *every day.* Sometimes the Church goes through horrendous events brought on not by themselves, but by wicked people. It is the task of the Church to go through these times because it is God's will and because God always wishes to leave a testimony to Himself on the earth.

There is no indication in the Bible, nor in the book of Revelation, that the Church departs the earth before the Trumpets and the Thunders. The Trumpet Judgments, depicting God's Wrath in various forms, are designed not to judge the Church, but rather, the ungodly world. The Church remains on earth as a testimony to God's righteousness and to what God requires in terms of repentance.

In the OD Jesus is bringing the angels with the trumpets.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus first, angels and Trumpet soundings second.