Signs of the Times: The Great Apostasy

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Charlie

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I find it interesting that those who believe everyone will be saved keep on preaching their doctrines. You could be out partying.

Charlie -- I believe the souls of everyone who believes will be saved. Every believer who has died since the time of Lord, like the thief on the cross whose soul went to be with Jesus Christ when the body of the thief died, have been with the Lord in heaven since they day their bodies died.

Like other believers I am praying I will be accounted worthy to be resurrected, If my body should die before the 'rapture', according to

Luke 20:353 6 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage, neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

My prayer is the one given to all believers, by the Lord, in

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

''All these things that shall come to pass'
refers to the effects of the opening of the seals, the sounding of the trumpets and the pouring out of the vials.

God Bless you. Charlie.
 

BarryD

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If all do not believe, is that why God concluded them all in unbelief, so that He may have mercy on all, Romans 11:32 (KJV)? Then, that leads to the question of free will, or predestination, one is in the New Testament, and the other is not. Romans 8:28 (KJV), Romans 8:29 (KJV), Romans 8:30 (KJV), and everyone is called 1 Corinthians 7:17 (KJV). Since Tom was harping on me not understanding Matthew 24, I do understand that Jesus Christ was talking to his disciples in Matthew 24, and their generation would have to be two thousand years old for it to be all fulfilled, if it were to be fulfilled in this present age, see Matthew 24:34 (KJV). And the thinking that all are not saved by the Lord Jesus Christ is heresy against God's scriptual word, He is the saviour of all men, specially of those that believe 1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV). You may also want to read Matthew 27:50 (KJV), Matthew 27:51 (KJV), Matthew 27:52(KJV), and Matthew 27:53 is that speaking of what is known as the rapture? May you see the true light, and may God bless you.
 

Duckybill

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Don't deceive yourselves folks.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [sup]10 [/sup]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

BarryD

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My brother duckybill is right folks, don't be decieved by what men say or do, but you should always put your trust is the word of God. Romans 5:18 (KJV ), and Romans 5:19 (KJV) should be clear of what is said in God's word. That's saying in plain English, what Adam did, the Lord Jesus Christ undone at the cross. And 2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV) says " For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him". He has made us free from sin see Romans 6:18 (KJV), and Romans 6:22 (KJV). Yes, Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV). Colossians 1:17(KJV) "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist" it is final, it is complete, it is fulfilled and there is no disputing it! After you realize that the words: have, had, was, and were are all past tense, and is and are are present tense and eternal, you will feel as blind and ignorant as I did at one time (yes, I once believed as many do on this board), but Jesus Christ took away my blindness and ignorance, and the hate of my fellow man! May God bless each and every one.
 

veteran

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Charlie -- I believe the souls of everyone who believes will be saved. Every believer who has died since the time of Lord, like the thief on the cross whose soul went to be with Jesus Christ when the body of the thief died, have been with the Lord in heaven since they day their bodies died.

Like other believers I am praying I will be accounted worthy to be resurrected, If my body should die before the 'rapture', according to

Luke 20:353 6 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage, neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

My prayer is the one given to all believers, by the Lord, in

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

''All these things that shall come to pass'
refers to the effects of the opening of the seals, the sounding of the trumpets and the pouring out of the vials.

God Bless you. Charlie.



Well, yes and no. Don't forget about the five foolish virgins and the unprofitable servant cast to the outer darkness when Christ returns. Those represent believers on Christ too.

Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles revealed that a believer on Christ CAN be deceived in the last days, and appear spiritually naked and in shame at Christ's return. That's why His warnings for us to stay on watch, and to know the times and the seasons He gave us leading up to the time of His return.

So what condition are those in that think Christ's second coming already happenned back in the Apostle's days because of thinking His second advent is meant in the spiritual sense only? That's the basis of Preterist doctrines of men. Those are NOT waiting and watching, with some versions of that false doctrine not expecting a literal bodily return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The worst case of Preterism is the false ideas that today Christ's literal Kingdom reign has come already, and that He is now reigning over all nations. That doctrine is allied with Christian Churches that are on the New World Order plan being instituted by Christ's enemies on earth. There's already a lot of deceived Christians actively working for that world government structure.

Are we then to lie to ourselves and assume those will be gathered along with the faithful to Christ when He comes? Those who think so can keep dreaming, for Christ warned He will shut the door upon the five foolish virgins among His believers (Matt.25).

 

Rach1370

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BarryD, I'm confused. You claim that ALL men will be saved? That the Kingdom is now? Is that right?

How on earth do you explain the rampant sin and evil in the world? The mother that drowns her own baby? The governments that approve of mass genocide...rape, torture, eradication? What of the peoples and religions that hate Jesus and Christians so much that they kill, main and feed their souls on this violence? How can you reconcile nature, which kills in numbers that would make a tyrant envious? Earthquakes, tornadoes, cyclones, drought, famine, floods. You cannot deny that this world is far from a good and perfect place. Would you not expect that the Kingdom of God would be?

Here's the thing. I believe without a doubt that Christ has conquered. His death won a victory for those of us who love and believe in Him. With the help Jesus sent us...the Holy Spirit, Christians fight daily against sin. But while Jesus is reigning even now in heaven, this world is still fallen.
Think of it like this: when David was anointed to be king, everyone knew that one day he would be. But it took a while...God's perfect timing, for David to actually sit on the throne. When this world comes to an end...whenever that will be, Jesus will come back, not as humble servant, but as triumphant King. The old and sinful world, full of sinful people, will pass, and King Jesus will reign over a perfect new world, where He will wipe every tear away and there will be happiness and joy. It will always be light, and that light will come from God Himself, and we will all worship Him will everlasting joy and wonder. This is not some imaginary picture I have conjured to help myself sleep at night....it comes from scripture! And my friend, look out at the world today....clearly we have not reached that. We still need to fight against sin, grow closer to Christ in our walk, preach the gospel to those who have not heard...because sure, geographically, the gospel has been everywhere, but it's the people who Jesus loves....and there are still so many people who need to hear of God's love!
 

BarryD

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Rach,

I am not saying that all men are going to be saved. I'm saying that all men are (were) saved. If the Lord Jesus Christ did not save all men you are worshipping a weak god. If you sin you are of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning 1 John 3:8(KJV). I worship Almighty God who did save his creation. I assume you have never had someone tell you that you do not and can not sin? 1 John 3:9(KJV). Romans 6:18(KJV) you have been made free from sin. Romans 3:23(KJV) getting back to the past tense states" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So, now I'm going to ask you a couple questions for you to figure out, how do we not sin? What would it have taken for us not to sin? And who is born of God? As far as what you see as evil, you will have to figure that out for yourself. The kingdom of God is within you Luke 17:21(KJV). John17:4 "I have glorified(Romans 3:23) the on earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do". Is "the last day", spoken of in God's word the last day? Keep studying! The Saviour of All Men! My God does reign from heaven above, and He is in each and every one! Ephesians 4:6(KJV) He is the one world government! Acts 17:26(KJV)
 

BarryD

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Rach,

I am not saying that all men are going to be saved. I'm saying that all men are (were) saved. If the Lord Jesus Christ did not save all men you are worshipping a weak god. If you sin you are of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning 1 John 3:8(KJV). I worship Almighty God who did save his creation. I assume you have never had someone tell you that you do not and can not sin? 1 John 3:9(KJV). Romans 6:18(KJV) you have been made free from sin. Romans 3:23(KJV) getting back to the past tense states" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So, now I'm going to ask you a couple questions for you to figure out, how do we not sin? What would it have taken for us not to sin? And who is born of God? As far as what you see as evil, you will have to figure that out for yourself. The kingdom of God is within you Luke 17:21(KJV). John17:4 "I have glorified(Romans 3:23) the on earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do". Is "the last day", spoken of in God's word the last day? Keep studying! The Saviour of All Men! My God does reign from heaven above, and He is in each and every one! Ephesians 4:6(KJV) He is the one world government! Acts 17:26(KJV) Have you ever thought if God's word all includes every one?
 

Rach1370

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Rach,

I am not saying that all men are going to be saved. I'm saying that all men are (were) saved. If the Lord Jesus Christ did not save all men you are worshipping a weak god. If you sin you are of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning 1 John 3:8(KJV). I worship Almighty God who did save his creation.

Do you mean that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient enough to save all mankind should they except Him as Savior?? Because that I agree with. If the tone is slightly more...Jesus saved the world, now there is no sin...that I wouldn't agree with. Again....look at the state of the world...sin is rife. While Jesus' sacrifice was indeed enough to purchase freedom and life for us...the consummation of that victory has not yet come.


I assume you have never had someone tell you that you do not and can not sin? 1 John 3:9(KJV). Romans 6:18(KJV) you have been made free from sin. Romans 3:23(KJV) getting back to the past tense states" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

:huh: Hang on. Are you saying that you are completely free of sin. That as Christians we have no sin. At all? Because that is simply not true. It's not true Biblically, and it's not true practically. Can you honestly say you have no bad thoughts? Against your sibling, spouse, children or parents? Against the moron who cut you off in traffic? Even the smallest things are counted as sin in God's eyes. As humans, even saved ones, we are not yet perfect. If we were, we wouldn't get sick, old and die.

9 If we confess our sins, he is http://www.esvonline.org/Psalm+143:1;+Romans+3:26/faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:9 ESV)


My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, http://www.esvonline.org/Romans+8:34;+1+Timothy+2:5;+Hebrews+7:25/we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (1 John 2:1 ESV)

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 http://www.esvonline.org/Psalm+32:5;+Psalm+51:3;+Proverbs+28:13/If we confess our sins, he is http://www.esvonline.org/Psalm+143:1;+Romans+3:26/faithful and just to forgive us our sins and http://www.esvonline.org/1+John+1:7/to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10 ESV)


You referece 1 John 3:9, but as the Bible clearly tells us that we ARE still sinners, this passage is talking about how true Christians fight against their sin nature. True followers of Christ do not recklessly and habitually violate what their anointing of the Holy Spirit has planted within them.But it doesn't mean we are completely without sin....again, that would mean we are now perfect...which just doesn't follow. Regenerated Christians have a new nature that rebels against sinning, but it does not make us immune against it.

You quote Rom 6:18, and it tells us we have been "set free from sin", but this does not mean we are sin free. Keep reading and you'll see the meaning of this term:

[22] But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. [23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:22-23 ESV)


You see! "Free from sin" doesn't mean we are sinless, it means that we are no longer slaves to it's ultimate outcome...death and hell.

In Rom 3:23 you claim the term "have sinned" is past tense....meaning that now saved we do not sin. But this cannot be the intended meaning as we see above in 1 John 1:8-10, any who claim to have not sinned are liars. You may tell others you do not sin...but both you and God know your inner heart and mind...is this really true??

Below are some verses that show that even saved Christians struggle against sin.

[26] Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, [27] and give no opportunity to the devil. (Ephesians 4:26-27 ESV)

[4] In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (Hebrews 12:4 ESV)

[20] As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. (1 Timothy 5:20 ESV)

[17] So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. [18] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. (Romans 7:17-18 ESV)

This last one is from Paul, whom we can say is clearly saved. And yet he too struggled against sin.

So, now I'm going to ask you a couple questions for you to figure out, how do we not sin? What would it have taken for us not to sin? And who is born of God?

Not sure I actually understand this question! Christians belong to God, through Jesus Christ....and it's through Jesus Christ that we will ultimately triumph over sin. But until that glorious day, our sanctification is the process of growing in Christ, denying ourselves and sin.

As far as what you see as evil, you will have to figure that out for yourself.

It's not a matter of needing to figure it out. People sin...sin leads to horrible atrocities. The world is full of it. The world is fallen, and we see it, both in humanity and in nature itself. It is far from the perfection that God created in the beginning, and what will again be when Jesus returns.

The kingdom of God is within you Luke 17:21(KJV). John17:4 "I have glorified(Romans 3:23) the on earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do".

True, the kingdom is within us...just as God the Holy Spirit is within us. But you cannot deny that both scripture and our own nature proves that while we are to fight against it, we still have sin. Why would we be told continuously to "repent" if we had nothing to repent of??

Is "the last day", spoken of in God's word the last day? Keep studying! The Saviour of All Men! My God does reign from heaven above, and He is in each and every one! Ephesians 4:6(KJV) He is the one world government! Acts 17:26(KJV)

The Bible clearly speaks of a Day when Jesus Christ will return, to judge the living and the dead and to set up His new Kingdom. We can call that the 'Last Day' if it fits, I suppose. I don't really care what its called...I just long for it to come!! To see my Lord face to face and to just be with Him.
 

aspen

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Don't deceive yourselves folks.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [sup]10 [/sup]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Yet, the Kingdom of God is in the justified heart, here on Earth, which is being sanctified by Christ even before salvation - so Paul must be talking about the quality of the sinner's heart, rather than the eventual loss of salvation if left unredeemed.

 

BarryD

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This all goes back to the blind leading the blind, and if one is blind they teach others of the blindness. If someone does not know what is blinding, how do they know they are not blinded? 2 Corinthians 3:13 (KJV) "And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: "2 Corinthians 3:14(KJV) " But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ." 2 Corinthians 3:15(KJV) "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart." What in the old testament is blinding for us? What did the Lord Jesus Christ have to abolish for us not to sin. I did not say that we have no sin. The scripture has concluded us in sin. Galatians 3:22(KJV). 1 John 1:9(KJV) is dealing with the apostles.We, us and our are all plural forms of the word. Now, 1 John 2:12(KJV) states" I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his names sake. " This verse is one to one, or personal!, it is also after 1John 1:8-10(KJV). Has every one who reads this verse, confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour? Have you (they) forgotten you (they) were purged? The old testament is the old world, and the new testament is the new world. There are no more sinners, we are justified by his faith, not your faith, we have repentance, been reconciled, redeemed, saved, glorified. The devil has been destroyed, and is the only thing in hell! The name of the antichrist is Belial(Belair) you will have to do more reading in the apocrypha to find out more about him, but he is in the new testament of the canonized Bible in the verse of 2 Corinthians 6:15(KJV). The gospel has been preached! Colossians 1:23(KJV). The last day is in John 7:37(KJV) Jesus Christ stood and cried, he will not stand and cry! When you know the truth it will set you free! And all believe or they would not be breathing, or walking and talking on this earth! Once you realize what I am saying, your life here, will be a much better place for you, God loves you, He loves me, and He loves every one else! He is the lover of all souls! You do not have to fear Him! You can move your mountain! And some day we will get to see His face. Thank you God, for sending us your Son Jesus Christ. The Saviour of All Men by Barry Dennis.
 

Rach1370

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This all goes back to the blind leading the blind, and if one is blind they teach others of the blindness. If someone does not know what is blinding, how do they know they are not blinded? 2 Corinthians 3:13 (KJV) "And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: "2 Corinthians 3:14(KJV) " But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ." 2 Corinthians 3:15(KJV) "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart." What in the old testament is blinding for us?

These verses speak of the Old covenant verses the New covenant. How does this tie into our being sinners? Are you implying that with the New covenant we have now becomes sinless?

It's not true about the blind leading the blind. That could be said for other religions, claiming to the peoples of the world that they have the "true" way. But as Christians we believe in Jesus Christ being the only way to the Father. We are not blind. We have both the scriptures and the Holy Spirit to guide us. But this does not mean we are sinless. As I asked before...are you perfect? No, you are not...no man is. As Christians we can expect to be perfect only after death, or when Jesus returns...not before. And if we're not perfect, we have sin. And, brother...if you are claiming to be perfect...then I suggest it's you who are blind.


What did the Lord Jesus Christ have to abolish for us not to sin. I did not say that we have no sin.

Jesus Christ died so that ultimately we should triumph over death. But please, use sense in this....this is for our new eternal lives. Jesus died so that any who believe in Him, would live with Him forever. Quite clearly we can see that in this lifetime, we are still prone to the fallen world and our fallen natures....we all die. The wages of sin is death...and everyone on planet earth will die once...a bodily death. But after that, depending on our state of salvation...our spirits live on...shed of their fallen nature...either with Christ, or without Him.
You say that we "did" have sin...but the presumption that you (and every 'true' Christian) is now sinless, is wrong...arrogant even. Can you honestly say that you have never had a begrudging thought about your spouse? Your friends? Your minister or your brothers and sisters in Christ? Do you ever think more about yourself than others? Even fleeting thoughts you would never dream of acting on. Do you think more about yourself than Jesus? Do you ever indulge yourself financially, when you know you should be using that money better? Do you ever lust, covet or steal...which Jesus tells us can be done with a glance or stray thought? If you deny you've ever done any of these things...then you're probably full of pride....you see, it's not something that the fallen human can ever triumph over.

But as Christians we do not shrug this aside...say that as we cannot win while living, we'll just do as we please. No. We have a new nature and a divine helper! We fight against these urges, and if we do sin, we confess and repent, and in doing so, draw closer to Jesus! And this is the wonderful difference between Christians and non Christians...we have to ability to triumph over sin on a daily basis...we'll never be totally rid of it in this life...but we are no longer slaves to it!


The scripture has concluded us in sin. Galatians 3:22(KJV). 1 John 1:9(KJV) is dealing with the apostles.We, us and our are all plural forms of the word. Now, 1 John 2:12(KJV) states" I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his names sake. " This verse is one to one, or personal!, it is also after 1John 1:8-10(KJV). Has every one who reads this verse, confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour? Have you (they) forgotten you (they) were purged? The old testament is the old world, and the new testament is the new world.

Indeed Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I live every day by and for Him! But once again, being "set free from sin" is the power we have not to be slaves to sin...dragged under by it daily. As Christians we have the power to resist it, to flee from it, to repent from it.


There are no more sinners, we are justified by his faith, not your faith, we have repentance, been reconciled, redeemed, saved, glorified. The devil has been destroyed, and is the only thing in hell! The name of the antichrist is Belial(Belair) you will have to do more reading in the apocrypha to find out more about him, but he is in the new testament of the canonized Bible in the verse of 2 Corinthians 6:15(KJV). The gospel has been preached! Colossians 1:23(KJV).

The statement "there are no more sinners" is fairly huge, and considering both scripture and daily actions we see around us, it's a fairly ignorant statement. Yes, we are justified by Christ...that has already been done....and in the future we will be glorified with Him, in our new and sinless bodies. But now...this lifetime...this is the process of sanctification. Look that up if you need to. Sanctification is our growing closer to and more like Christ through the struggles of life...overcoming adversity, suffering for Jesus, repenting of and avoiding of sin...and so on. Too many Christians go "woo hoo, sanctification...now I'm glorified!!" and completely miss the really important middle part....growing in Christ. The NT is full of references and ways that this sanctification process is to work...how can you ignore it? Why on earth would all those references even be there if we didn't have something we needed to work on??


The last day is in John 7:37(KJV) Jesus Christ stood and cried, he will not stand and cry! When you know the truth it will set you free! And all believe or they would not be breathing, or walking and talking on this earth! Once you realize what I am saying, your life here, will be a much better place for you, God loves you, He loves me, and He loves every one else! He is the lover of all souls! You do not have to fear Him! You can move your mountain! And some day we will get to see His face. Thank you God, for sending us your Son Jesus Christ. The Saviour of All Men by Barry Dennis.

"This will be a much better place for you"? I think maybe this is part of your confusion. This life, this world is not guaranteed to be enjoyable. Why do we think it should be? The God we worship, Jesus, had one of the most pathetic lives available. He was born poor, lived poor, had to work hard with His hands to earn a living, and then when He started His ministry He was homeless and ridiculed. He was betrayed, beaten and murdered.
Anyone expecting this life to treat them right is delving into the prosperity gospel, which is basically treating God like a magical genie. God is sovereign, He gives as He chooses for the reasons He chooses. Yes, grace is a free gift, but just because we can do nothing to earn salvation, does not mean we can "catch a free ride" every day of our lives, needing to do nothing about our nature, our actions, our thoughts. We are saved yes, but we still live within these fallen bodies...everyday, but the grace of God, we are given the chance to walk that narrow path.
 

BarryD

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Rach,
I suggest for you to buy a concordance, and look up the word abolished. Then you will know what Jesus Christ abolished.
 

aspen

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There is simply no evidence in the history of the church for a Great Apostasy - the term was adopted in the 19th century by Millerites and Mormons to justify their new religions and millennialism. If you can point to a time when love left the Earth completely (the justifying and sanctifying work of the HS) than I will entertain the possibility of an apostasy.
 

Rach1370

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Rach,
I suggest for you to buy a concordance, and look up the word abolished. Then you will know what Jesus Christ abolished.

"Abolish:
verb (used with object) to do away with; put an end to; annul; make void"

"Sin:
noun 1. transgression of divine law. 2. any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle. 3. any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, lapse, etc.; great fault or offense."




So. You're telling me that when Jesus died, sin was "done away with, made void." So really, sin just doesn't exist anymore. Right. So in following that thought: you have nothing you every need to repent of, the worlds atrocities are but a matter of perception, and that you are now a perfect being, unable to ever do wrong to others...even if just in your thoughts.


If you really claim any of that...you're a liar. Oops...which makes you a sinner. You may claim that involuntary actions which result in sin do not count, but it's the very involuntary actions and thoughts that prove that we are still within a fallen body, in a fallen world.

Progressive sanctification: "a progressive work of God and man that makes us more and more free from sin and like Christ in our actual lives."

Our present sanctification includes the body (1 Thess. 5:23), but not so as to essentially alter the sinfulness of the flesh. The flesh always lusts against the Spirit (Gal. 5:17). Even in an aged and seasoned soldier of the cross, such as the Apostle Paul was, we see that the flesh was still unaltered (Rom. 7:14-24). The body is included in that the soul is, by means of sanctification, given greater control over it; and thus it is kept back to some extent, from overt acts of sin. But its essential sinfulness is undiminished.
 

BarryD

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Feb 8, 2011
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Rach,
I suggested a concordance, not a dictionary. A Strong's concordance, and a copy of the King James Version of the Bible, they both coincide with each other. Go through the verses that have abolished in them. These will be one of the best investments one can make. It was not me who said 1 John 3:9 (KJV) it was God, understand that! Understand that it is not me telling you anything in God's scriptual word, it is God!Remeber if you sin you are of the devil 1 John 3:8 (KJV), are you of the devil? No, you are not and neither is anyone else, we are all born of God. Please pay attention to the tense of words usedin the Bible, you do with other reading material, why is the Bible any different? You were free from your first breath, if you will just realize and accept this. The saviour of all men, specially of those that believe, God said this in 1 Timothy 4:10(KJV). With the concordance there are all kinds of words one can look up, like: predestinated us, we do not war after the flesh, crucified the flesh, were all dead, doth not commit sin, has fulfilled the law, law of commandments, abolished, blotting out, ordinaces, and love etc.
 

Rach1370

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Apr 17, 2010
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You really think you're sinless? I wonder what those closest to you would think? I wonder what Jesus would think as He listens to every thought of your heart and mind? I wonder what He thinks when you feel you have absolutely nothing to repent of, after all, everything was done on the cross, you certainly don't need Jesus now.

I have a concordance, thanks. I am well aware that I am far from perfect, but the only one I belong to is Jesus. Everyday, by being convicted, confessing and repenting, I grow closer and closer to Him. At the end, when He says 'well done good and faithful servant' do you think He'll be talking to the one who acknowledges their fault and total reliance on Him, or the one who even now professes to be perfect like Christ?
 

BarryD

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Feb 8, 2011
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You really think you're sinless? I wonder what those closest to you would think? I wonder what Jesus would think as He listens to every thought of your heart and mind? I wonder what He thinks when you feel you have absolutely nothing to repent of, after all, everything was done on the cross, you certainly don't need Jesus now.

I have a concordance, thanks. I am well aware that I am far from perfect, but the only one I belong to is Jesus. Everyday, by being convicted, confessing and repenting, I grow closer and closer to Him. At the end, when He says 'well done good and faithful servant' do you think He'll be talking to the one who acknowledges their fault and total reliance on Him, or the one who even now professes to be perfect like Christ?
 

BarryD

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Feb 8, 2011
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My total reliance and faith is do to and from him! We are to have the mind of Christ! 1 Peter 4:1(KJV) I want to show you what God's word says about repeated repentance, it is found in Hebrews 6:6(KJV) so are you crucifing Jesus every time you repent? God's word says you are! If you have a concordance, have you looked up the verses with abolished in them? What did he abolish? It is found in the second chapter of Ephesians verse 15. What part of the Bible, old or new testament are they in? Who wrote the book they are located in? Now, look again at 2 Corinthians 3:13-15(KJV). Is it starting to come together? Have a blessed day! The saviour of all men.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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I want to show you what God's word says about repeated repentance, it is found in Hebrews 6:6(KJV) so are you crucifing Jesus every time you repent?


You've begun on a false interpretation of Hebrews 6. Pulling just one verse out and trying to re-interpret it according to a tradition of man is not the way to treat God's Word...

Heb 6:4-9
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
(KJV)


That's about a chosen one in Christ that turns away and becomes an APOSTATE away from Christ. It has nothing to do with our need for repentance of sins after having coming to Christ.

An example would be of a chosen servant in Christ that instead stops believing on Him, and instead turns to the devil instead. Because of having been once enlightened by Christ, and having tasted of the heavenly gift and powers of the world to come, there's no coming back once that person turns away from Christ and instead to the devil, and then later wanting to come back to renew their walk with Christ. That Scripture is pointing to a specific sin that can only be committed byy one of Christ's elect servants. It's the unpardonable sin.

It is NOT about later little slip ups by a believer in good standing with Christ in their walk that need to repent for.

With five of the Churches in Asia per Rev.2 & 3, our Lord Jesus commanded those guilty in those Churches TO REPENT! That is direct Bible proof of the ability to, and need to, and requirement of later repentance for sins AFTER having come to Christ Jesus.


Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(KJV)


The Greek word for "past" means 'have previously transpired'.

The idea that we are automatically forgiven of all sins future that we may commit is a false doctrine. We must keep our walk in Christ Jesus to the end, just as loving father and mother would expect of their own children living under their household.



 
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