Obeying Government

[michaelvpardo]

You never answered the question. Quit while you are only a little behind.

Absolutely not, I always start right where I am when I jump into the kiddie pool.

 

[FHII]

Yeah, I'm a priest, all the saints are priests. Aren't you?

Ok... What about the rest of what I asked. Are you an apostle? Are you Nebs?

Mike... You are so far behind the conversation that you can't possibly catch up in a few minutes. But here you are trying to sound good while calling me spiritually malnourished... And you are (by your own admission) behind in the conversation.

Take a break and read first, then relpy.

 

[FHII]

Absolutely not, I always start right where I am when I jump into the kiddie pool.

Well you should stay in the kiddie pool. The ocean is too big for you.

 

[FHII]

Oy. Would you like a cookie?

Oh child... We are done here. No more response from me to you.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Oh child... We are done here. No more response from me to you.

Too bad, I was going to ask you something personal.
You've been posting here as long as I have and you've used the same avatar for a long time. Why did you choose a picture of Clint from those cheesy spaghetti westerns where he always played a character that was a murderer, a thief, and a liar, all 3 in one, the unholy trinity as it were? I Think "Unforgiven" was probably his best western film and certainly the most honest one.
I sincerely hope that you don't see yourself that way.

 

[Enoch111]

Is it your belief that Jesus wants us to take up our pitchforks and go to the Capitol and take out Nancy Pelosi and company?

There's no need for pitchforks since now there are little drones which can be targeted very precisely. And Pelosi should be one of the targets. But this is not for Christians in general, but for the military who are sworn to protect the republic from domestic and foreign enemies (and Pelosi definitely is Public Enemy No. 1). Can you imagine how much grief America could have avoided had Pelosi been arrested immediately after she publicly ripped up Trump's state of the union speech? America can be saved a lot of grief by the military targeting all these internal enemies of the USA.

 

[JRM]

Yeah, you must be spiritually malnourished.
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. John 4:34

If you're in the body of Christ isn't your food the same?
That my brother, is meat.

It goes to show that we don't have the grasp to know everything, at least not in this lifetime. We only know in part.

Michelvpardo... Are you an apostle? Are you Nebuchadnezzar? Are you a priest?

I don't know about you guys but I am an apostle and surely not a Nebuchadnezzar.

To God Be The Glory

 

[michaelvpardo]

Christians I come across in general tend to use the scripture of Paul in Romans 13 that we must obey Government in regards to our churches being closed and being locked up at home in lockdowns and taking these vaccines etc.

My question is what will those of you who hold to this doctrine as truth do when ALL NATIONS command that we worship satan and take his mark?

There's a good passage in the acts of the Apostles that demonstrates when it's right to ignore the authorities, specifically when the Apostles were ordered by the Jewish authorities to stop preaching the doctrines of Christ. But who are we, just bench warmers and participants in Holy huddles.

 

[FHII]

Now, to get this back on track: Romans 13 is not talking about obeying earthly governments or authority. There are verses that say to do so, but Romans 13 is not of them. Romans 13 is about following God through his ministry. Its about submitting yourselves to the Minister of God.

Presidents, Prime Ministers, other world leaders and down to local mayors, governors, sheriffs and magistrates are not ministers of God. The verses that show that to be true are overwhelming. Very few government official were called ministers in the Bible, and none were called "Ministers of God". With very few, questionable exceptions that title always applied to a member of the clergy.

While ministers are servants, not all servants are ministers, as the Bible calls them.

I appreciate the rebuttals, but I fine them lacking and ridiculous. There is absolutely no doubt to a serious Bible student that Romans 13 is not talking about following to government. I have stated my case with plenty of evidence.

Thats all from me.

 

[michaelvpardo]

It goes to show that we don't have the grasp to know everything, at least not in this lifetime. We only know in part.



I don't know about you guys but I am an apostle and surely not a Nebuchadnezzar.

To God Be The Glory

Called, equipped, and sent, brother. Carnality of mind is all over this site and in every forum. You just can't get away from it. Honestly, who would take someone seriously that professes Christ, but uses an avatar of a murderer, thief, and liar. You can't make this stuff up, but I'm not laughing.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Oy.

 

[Enoch111]

Now, to get this back on track: Romans 13 is not talking about obeying earthly governments or authority.

Well since only governments have executioners and executions, that shoots down your theory.
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Back then the sword was the instrument of execution. Today there are other means and methods. And the death penalty is still valid in many jurisdictions.

Yes governments are what God is presenting here. But when governments themselves become lawbreakers, then the politicians should be the ones getting executed. They have committed MASS MURDER since January 2020.

 

[FHII]

Well since only governments have executioners and executions, that shoots down your theory.

Oh my... SMH....

 

[michaelvpardo]

There's no need for pitchforks since now there are little drones which can be targeted very precisely. And Pelosi should be one of the targets. But this is not for Christians in general, but for the military who are sworn to protect the republic from domestic and foreign enemies (and Pelosi definitely is Public Enemy No. 1). Can you imagine how much grief America could have avoided had Pelosi been arrested immediately after she publicly ripped up Trump's state of the union speech? America can be saved a lot of grief by the military targeting all these internal enemies of the USA.

I was born in the USA and that makes a person tied to the land, a native American. Even the "indigenous" peoples really came from somewhere else, but they were born here after their migrations, lived here, died here, were all, after the 1st generation tied to the land. I love my home, but I don't love the world and anyone who thinks that any nation on this Earth isn't part of the world is just plain blind.
There hasn't been more than a few Christian presidents, and none of them weren't particularly good at the job, most were free Masons and nominal christians, religious people at best. We wouldn't even exist as a nation if all had applied Christian principles to statesmanship. I like Jimmy Carter, but he wasn't built for dealing with the world on the world's terms, and we paid for it in world politics.
Our government was fashioned after the pattern of Rome, which before Julius Ceaser was a republic with a Senate drawn from the wealthy and educated upper class, and Citizenship by birth or for money. At our founding, only men, only landowners, had the right to vote. We were never a true democracy and no true democracy has ever stood the test of time. But our Lord said that all authority came from God and Paul taught pretty much the same thing. Rome wasn't exactly a godly government though they had their own gods and their own sense of morality.
When I look at the motto on our coinage, I wonder which God it's referring to, because our Lord never asked us to colonize, to make physical warfare, to steal the resources of poorer countries, giving workers pennies and making dollars in profits. Does anyone believe that the judgment of places like Hollywood, Las Vegas or New York city will be less than that of Sodom and Gomorrah? If the Lord didn't deal harshly with my own nation, he'd owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. We're called to be in the world, not of the world.
Look around you. The droughts, the violent storms, the earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, isn't God trying to tell us something as a nation, as a world?
Oh zip, I forgot, the "science" says this is all global warming and climate change, and after all when did the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent creator of the Universe ever control the weather?
Most scientists don't own bibles, but most of us do.
Shouldn't we read them and just believe them?
I served in the USAF as a volunteer in my youth and took the oath before I knew better, but now I'm just a pilgrim, a sojourner in a strange land with a Citizenship in heaven.
I understand and believe in civic duty, but if you belong to Him then your kingdom isn't here, on this planet, until He returns. That's a whole other story.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well since only governments have executioners and executions, that shoots down your theory.
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Back then the sword was the instrument of execution. Today there are other means and methods. And the death penalty is still valid in many jurisdictions.

Yes governments are what God is presenting here. But when governments themselves become lawbreakers, then the politicians should be the ones getting executed. They have committed MASS MURDER since January 2020.

They've been committing mass murder a lot longer than that. Legalized abortion, wars to promote democracy, wars to promote communism, wars to build empires. The pax romana was formed by conquest and kept with the sword.
How have things changed? How is the pax Americana any different? Our current president is more civilized and war is a last resort. He'd rather destroy economies with sanctions, starve people into submission, do the humane thing, right?
The days are short friends. We can argue, we can debate, but the Lord only told his disciples to pick up a sword one time, once. Anybody know why?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Ok... What about the rest of what I asked. Are you an apostle? Are you Nebs?

Mike... You are so far behind the conversation that you can't possibly catch up in a few minutes. But here you are trying to sound good while calling me spiritually malnourished... And you are (by your own admission) behind in the conversation.

Take a break and read first, then relpy.

No one calls me Mike, but my x wife. My friends have always called me Pardo, or Pard, strangers usually just call me sir.
I really don't care what anyone calls me, just not late for dinner. Oooh, that's old. I wonder if the Lord could use a court jester, but then again I'm not the clown I used to be.
This isn't really a new topic and most of these threads have been repeated over and over and over...
Where's the progress? Where's the growth in Christ likeness?
If that isn't why we're here, then I'm obviously in the wrong place. Now that the deadly cold has been conquered, maybe I should just join a local congregation and hang with the saints. I'd rather just worship the Lord with godly folks anyway. I'm not saying that you don't find such here, but the world is intruding into every aspect of life including these Christian forums, including Christian congregations, including Christian marriages. Don't you think all this is getting a little old?
That wasn't entirely true. I did have some college buddies who used my first name, but we all had common interests and goals, a lot of common sins too I suppose. I miss them sometimes but not the times themselves.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Adios mi amigos y via con dios. I was just killing time waiting for the Lord to show us more about the everlasting gospel, but you really can't rush these things. I think I'll just find something to watch on the flat screen. It may be mostly garbage, but at least it doesn't pretend to be anything other than the world.

 

[JRM]

I appreciate the rebuttals, but I fine them lacking and ridiculous. There is absolutely no doubt to a serious Bible student that Romans 13 is not talking about following to government. I have stated my case with plenty of evidence.

There is nothing ridiculous when discussing about the things of God.

The word “Trinity” does not appear in Holy Writ never the less the doctrine is clearly taught in both the Old and New Testaments. The words “omniscient” and “omnipresent” do not appear in the KJV of the Bible, and yet no serious Bible student will deny that the Scriptures do teach that God is omniscient and that He is omnipresent. That is He is all powerful and everywhere present.

Yes you have stated your case but to my opinion was insufficient only because God called Nebuchadnezzar His servant, that could also mean minister.

We can never agree so I hope and pray for the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom. At least for me.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JRM]

Adios mi amigos y via con dios. I was just killing time waiting for the Lord to show us more about the everlasting gospel, but you really can't rush these things. I think I'll just find something to watch on the flat screen. It may be mostly garbage, but at least it doesn't pretend to be anything other than the world.

Is it appropriate to say "touche'?"

To God Be The Glory

 

[K9Buck]

America can be saved a lot of grief by the military targeting all these internal enemies of the USA.

I like it, but I follow Christ and, therefore, cannot support it.