Obeying Government

[robert derrick]

spare me the drama, of which may not even be true, but if it is so what, getting back stabbed by those you might trust or think you should be able to trust is S O P in this world. you' re not the only one. there are those who are betrayed by family children spouses friends in the name of anything they can use to justify getting close enough to do it, and many trusting souls have their lives ruined for it. wake up and smell the sewage, drama queen.

WOW

When are you going to China to support those you use in your high ground flag waving?

You're a talker.

 

[FHII]

Well 6 out of 7 is a good percentage especially when one of those examples came from the mouth of God Himself out rightly.

You really aren't understanding the numbers. I will take the blame for that as I really didn't think I explained it that well.

6 times out of 42 times where the word "minister" is used in the Bible it DID NOT refer to a member of the clergy.

Twice it called Joshua the minister of Moses. Was Moses a spiritual leader or a political one? I would say both, so these two are in doubt. But Joshua (at the time it is referring to) was NOT a public minister in the way Romans 13 is speaking of. He was not Israel's minister; he was Moses'. This was at the time when God himself chose the leader and not the people. That changed when the people asked for a King (Samuel and Saul).

The third and fourth are King Solomon's ministers who again weren't serving the public directly like in Romans 13. They are accounts of the same thing. One is from the book of kings, the other from Chronicles. I am being kind here because the first 4 are really only 2 in that it is repeated information. Also, 2 of them are in doubt because we have to wonder if Joshua was helping politically or spiritually.
Number 5 is speaking of the ministers of Satan, so frankly, its still a spiritual matter. The 6th is a rhetorical question asking if Jesus is the minister of sin.

So its really 6 out of 42. The other 36 times it is clear a "minister" is a member of the clergy. Now of those 6, two are questionable and repeats, 2 are repeated verses, one is a rhetorical question and the other is talking about Satan's ministers.

So you noted 6 out of 7. Where did the "seven" come from? 7 times a variation of the phrase "ministers of God" are used and ALL 7 times its talking about clergy. Romans 13 calls them the minister of God and EVERY TIME that phrase is used or a variation of it is used it is talking about a clergyman.

 

[JunChosen]

So you noted 6 out of 7. Where did the "seven" come from? 7 times a variation of the phrase "ministers of God" are used and ALL 7 times its talking about clergy. Romans 13 calls them the minister of God and EVERY TIME that phrase is used or a variation of it is used it is talking about a clergyman.

I "got it" the first time. It does not really matter how well you articulated your argument. What matters is did God call Nebuchadnezzar His "servant" and if not was God lying?

Another thing you did NOT even touched upon my statement on angels and nurses? Is that by design?

To God Be The Glory

 

[FHII]

I "got it" the first time. It does not really matter how well you articulated your argument. What matters is did God call Nebuchadnezzar His "servant" and if not was God lying

I explained that. The word used for "servant" as it was used for Nebuchadnezzar is not the same for the word used for minister. In other words, for all practical purposes, Nebs was NOT a minister! He was a slave. Check the Hebrew definition. Heck... Learn the overall concept! People here have automatically made "minister" to mean "servant". While in a vague sense that is true, its not a precise truth. The Levites were ministers; Nebs was not. Both servants, but not in the same way.

And if you got what I was saying the first time, why did you falsify the information?

Another thing you did NOT even touched upon my statement on angels and nurses? Is that by design

Yep. Cause its ridiculous. They minister (verb) but are not noted as "ministers" (noun). I covered that. There is a difference between someone ministering and someone is is titled a minister.

I have been in the hospital and my pastor came to see me. There were nurses, doctors and orderlies there. All were ministering to me. But if someone came in and asked who was the minister, who do you think would raise his hand?

The nurse?

 

[JunChosen]

There is a difference between someone ministering and someone is is titled a minister.

Most certainly. But God calls both "servants!"

Even in our country, all politicians from the president on down who are in government we can call servants, because in a sense we the people pay their salaries.

As Paul would say, "let God be true and all men liars!"

To God Be The Glory

 

[FHII]

Most certainly. But God calls both "servants!"

Even in our country, all politicians from the president on down who are in government we can call servants, because in a sense we the people pay their salaries.

But they are not called ministers in the biblical sense and they are not all God's servants. I have documented both these points.

Overwhelmingly when the Bible speaks of a minister its speaking of the clergy. 100% of the rine when they are called ministers of God its talking about clergy. Not a nurse. Not a cop. Not a politician.

Do your own research if you feel you need to. Present it to me and I will fairly consider it, but don't falsify my research.

 

[FHII]

Apostles were Gods servants.
Priests were Gods servants.
Mary was Gods sevant.
Nebuchadnezzar was Gods servant.
Pharaoh was Gods servant.
Ministers are Gods servants.
Slaves are Gods servant.
I am Gods servant!

But I am not an Apostle. I am not Nebuchadnezzar. I am not Mary. I am not a Minister.

Is this registering with anyone?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Apostles were Gods servants.
Priests were Gods servants.
Mary was Gods sevant.
Nebuchadnezzar was Gods servant.
Pharaoh was Gods servant.
Ministers are Gods servants.
Slaves are Gods servant.
I am Gods servant!

But I am not an Apostle. I am not Nebuchadnezzar. I am not Mary. I am not a Minister.

Is this registering with anyone?

Yeah, you must be spiritually malnourished.
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. John 4:34
If you're in the body of Christ isn't your food the same?
That my brother, is meat.

 

[FHII]

Yeah, you must be spiritually malnourished.
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. John 4:34
If you're in the body of Christ isn't your food the same?
That my brother, is meat.

1 Corinthians 12:27-29 KJV
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. [28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

No. We all eat the same spiritual meat... But we are not all the same.

 

[FHII]

Yeah, you must be spiritually malnourished.
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. John 4:34
If you're in the body of Christ isn't your food the same?
That my brother, is meat.

By the way... Ask Korah and Dathan about how that worked out for them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

1 Corinthians 12:27-29 KJV
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. [28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

No. We all eat the same spiritual meat... But we are not all the same.

Who said we were, but every soul that's called to Christ, is called to ministry, either in the church or to the world.
What does it take for believers to get off their butts and do the works that God has prepared for them to walk in?
Worldwide persecution? Seas turning to blood?
Famines, wars, and plagues?
We are called to be witnesses, not spectators.

 

[michaelvpardo]

By the way... Ask Korah and Dathan about how that worked out for them.

Uh, you do know that Korah and Dathan weren't in the body of Christ, right? Are you one of those religion people, or do you know Him?

 

[FHII]

Who said we were, but every soul that's called to Christ, is called to ministry, either in the church or to the world.
What does it take for believers to get off their butts and do the works that God has prepared for them to walk in?
Worldwide persecution? Seas turning to blood?
Famines, wars, and plagues?
We are called to be witnesses, not spectators.

Care to explain how this relates to Romans 13? Cause that is the thing we are talking about.

 

[FHII]

Uh, you do know that Korah and Dathan weren't in the body of Christ, right? Are you one of those religion people, or do you know Him?

Uh, do you know that they were a schoolmaster and foreshadow of things to come? Or do you despise the OT?

I'm going to skip the long explanation of how ridiculous this argument is. It all comes down to a simple thing: you have no interest in following a preacher.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Care to explain how this relates to Romans 13? Cause that is the thing we are talking about.

Just replying to your comment which really doesn't have anything to do with Roman's 13 either, but 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. Roman's 13:3
There, happy now?

 

[FHII]

Michelvpardo... Are you an apostle? Are you Nebuchadnezzar? Are you a priest?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Uh, do you know that they were a schoolmaster and foreshadow of things to come? Or do you despise the OT?

I'm going to skip the long explanation of how ridiculous this argument is. It all comes down to a simple thing: you have no interest in following a preacher.

The Jews were never called to do the works of God, but to obey the law. Christians however are called to good works, to walk in them. The Jews had no problem with rebellion against the authority of their conquerors, but Jesus did and said so.
You've got a bit of an attitude. Someone steal your lunch or something?

 

[FHII]

Just replying to your comment which really doesn't have anything to do with Roman's 13 either, but 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. Roman's 13:3
There, happy now?

Well if you can't keep up with the conversation, its best not to participate. You pretty much have just admitted you have no idea what we are discussing, but you threw your 2 cents in, and its worth less than a penny.

 

[FHII]

The Jews were never called to do the works of God, but to obey the law. Christians however are called to good works, to walk in them. The Jews had no problem with rebellion against the authority of their conquerors, but Jesus did and said so.

You never answered the question. Quit while you are only a little behind.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Michelvpardo... Are you an apostle? Are you Nebuchadnezzar? Are you a priest?

Yeah, I'm a priest, all the saints are priests. Aren't you?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well if you can't keep up with the conversation, its best not to participate. You pretty much have just admitted you have no idea what we are discussing, but you threw your 2 cents in, and its worth less than a penny.

Oy. Would you like a cookie?