Obeying Government

[K9Buck]

What about a Christian judge, can he pronounce a death sentence to a murderer?
To God Be The Glory

Yes, I believe it is justified.

Genesis 9:6 says, "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."

 

[K9Buck]

Thank God the Founding Father's of America recognized violating our rights is sufficient reason to rebel against encroachment on our God given gifts.

If Jesus had been with the rebels at Concord, do you believe that Jesus would have told them that it was ok to shoot the British? Or do you believe that Jesus would have told them to comply with the governing authority's order to surrender the guns? Do you follow Jesus or America's "founding fathers"?

Battles of Lexington and Concord

On the night of April 18, 1775, hundreds of British troops marched from Boston to nearby Concord in order to seize an arms cache.

 

[JunChosen]

Romans 13:4 KJV
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

How simple is that? Its talking about God's ministers.

It seems you are basing your whole argument on the word "minister" which I believe can be translated "servant."

In fact, that is what God, your God said of evil King Nebuchadnezzar who typifies Satan, in:

Jeremiah 27:5-9

5 I have made the earth, the man and the beast that [are] upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son’s son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, [that] the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the LORD, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.
9 Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon:

To God Be the Glory

 

[ReChoired]

Christians I come across in general tend to use the scripture of Paul in Romans 13 that we must obey Government in regards to our churches being closed and being locked up at home in lockdowns and taking these vaccines etc.

My question is what will those of you who hold to this doctrine as truth do when ALL NATIONS command that we worship satan and take his mark?

See Questions & Answers 8 (Powerpoint) - https://archive.org/download/questions-answers-8/Questions & Answers 8.pptx

 

[Wrangler]

Is it your belief that Jesus wants us to take up our pitchforks and go to the Capitol and take out Nancy Pelosi and company?

Should we also visit abortion clinics and abduct and imprison the people that work there?

Again, Appeal to False Alternative. Jesus did not speak even when he was commanded by government to speak.

One can resist tyranny by means other than pitchforks.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you follow Jesus or America's "founding fathers"?

Who I follow depends on the subject. Last month, I followed by doctor’s advice.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Christians I come across in general tend to use the scripture of Paul in Romans 13 that we must obey Government in regards to our churches being closed and being locked up at home in lockdowns and taking these vaccines etc.

My question is what will those of you who hold to this doctrine as truth do when ALL NATIONS command that we worship satan and take his mark?

Yes Marc that is very true, but as you know sometimes other scriptures finish out the responsibility of us, Jesus clearly stated as you did through another passage that we are to render to Caesar those things that belong to him, but he finishes with but God's things to God. So we Christians do obey the governments to the point of violating the laws of God, if it does, we will obey God every time.

We should be obedient in lockdowns, depending upon the reason of course, but in the case of injections, it has to be a personal decision.

 

[K9Buck]

Jesus did not speak even when he was commanded by government to speak.

Yes, Jesus declined to defend himself when questioned by Pilate. That doesn't equate to overthrowing government.

 

[K9Buck]

Who I follow depends on the subject. Last month, I followed by doctor’s advice.

Thanks for the discussion and good luck!

 

[Wrangler]

We should be obedient in lockdowns, depending upon the reason of course

Exactly! I remember after the Boston Marathon bombing, the police were hunting for the terrorist on the loose and told people of a small Massachusetts town to shelter in place while they churched house to house. This is good governance, acting in the safety of the people.

I frequently go up to LEO and tell them Blue Lives Matter and how grateful I am for their service. The thin blue line is a tough job and I thank God they do it.

Injecting Black people with syphilis, not treating them so they can see what happens, like in the Muskegee Project; not so much.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, Jesus declined to defend himself when questioned by Pilate. That doesn't equate to overthrowing government.

Friend, Christians have a long and proud tradition of over-throwing tyrannical governments over the centuries.

 

[ReChoired]

the Boston Marathon bombing

False flag. Plenty of evidence upon request.

 

[ReChoired]

the police were hunting for the terrorist on the loose and told people of a small Massachusetts town to shelter in place while they churched house to house

Illegal search (no warrants, no Judges approval, etc), illegal position upon private property, and imprisonment of countrymen, even at gun point by military outfitted SWAT, etc., contrary to the Constitution of the united States and its proper Amendments. Mercenaries were used at Boston, specifically "Craft International". Other US military were seen on sight, and in control ops of the events that occurred, using two way radio, etc. This also brings in the question of Posse Comitatus, etc.

Carlos Arredondo crisis actor false flag Boston bombings

Boston Hoaxathon: Peekay Truth's "Trouser Bomb" series : Peekay Truth : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Episode 1: The Boston Bombing Hoax Part 1

Episode 2: The Boston Bombing Hoax Part 2

I also have the video material for "The Real Deal Ep # 163 NOBODY DIED IN BOSTON (either) Jim Fetzer Part 1B"

See also Sandy Hoax ( http://robscholtemuseum.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/James-Fedzer-Nobody-Died-At-Sandy-Hook.pdf ) and a myriad of others, like in New Zealand (Christchurch, I have the videos, evidences), France, London, NY, Florida (several, Parkland, Airport, etc), Vegas, Woolwich, Charleston, Oklahoma City, Waco, the Turpins ( Turpin-time, the breakdown of Constitutional rights ), US Capitol, etc.

 

[DPMartin]

The same pompous evangelicals that preach obedience to the state in every detail, also preach worship of the unbelieving and crucifying Jews as chosen people of God.

no one can make you not trust and believe in the name of Jesus Christ nor anything He has said.

what did Jesus say?
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

what the Lord God has given man you have to live with, which includes the power to make you do most anything, but fear them more than the Lord.

Christians in china have been there and don't that as far as what they can and can't do in public practice of religions, and you're whining like you're entitled something.

 

[FHII]

It seems you are basing your whole argument on the word "minister" which I believe can be translated "servant."

In fact, that is what God, your God said of evil King Nebuchadnezzar who typifies Satan, in:

First, let me deal with your Jeremiah verse on Nebuchadnezzar... Yes, he is called a servant. The Hebrew definition in the case is manservant, bondsman or slave. That's a bit different from the Hebrew word for minister, which is (of all things) "minister". Now the Greek word for "minister" in Romans 13 has many meanings: attendant, waiter, a Christian teacher or pastor, a deacon or yes... a servant. The last one, and that's the one people want to use.

I have an expose for you. "Minister" appears in the Bible 161 times. 119 times it's used as a verb. Of the remaining 42 times that it is used as a title, there are only 6 times they refer to something other than a servant of God. Exodus 24:13 and Josh 1:1 are the first two. Joshua is referred to as the minister to Moses. 1 Kings 10:5 refers to Solomon's (the king) ministers. They were personal servants by the context given and not public servants. 2 Chr 9:4 is a repeat of 1 Kings 10:5. Gal 2:17 asks the rhetorical question of whether Jesus is the minister of sin. The last one I found is very interesting: 2 Cor 11:15 speaks of false prophets being ministers of Satan.

So there it is... 6 times where a minister is something other than a member of the clergy. That isn't a very strong supporting list, especially when nothing there pertains to a political structure.

"Ministers of God" or some variation thereof occurs 7 times in the Bible and EVERY TIME it speaks of the clergy.

With all this evidence, I have no problem saying that ROmans 13 is speaking about obeying the man of God.

 

[robert derrick]

no one can make you not trust and believe in the name of Jesus Christ nor anything He has said.

what did Jesus say?
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

what the Lord God has given man you have to live with, which includes the power to make you do most anything, but fear them more than the Lord.

Christians in china have been there and don't that as far as what they can and can't do in public practice of religions, and you're whining like you're entitled something.

And you have no idea what I've been through. I have been the subject of persecution and of cultish leadership, and open persecution is far more refreshing and up front than is false ministry and manipulation.

I don't fear them which want to openly kill my body and send me to the Lord. But I openly despise and expose any so-called representative of God, who has no clue what they are talking about according to Scripture, and especially them who do know what they are talking about and teach falsely on purpose for power and profit.

I don't whine. I condemn. And by doing so I have helped many other sincere believers avoid the belly of the beast I went through for over 15 years, that I will never get back. But that's alright, because the lessons in Scripture I have learned, and the great appreciation for the liberty that is in Christ Jesus and of His true Law, that have made it all worth it in my latter years.

So, if you feel so much for the persecuted Christians in China or anyone else, then go join them; otherwise, quit using them for your flag waving on your pseudo high ground.

 

[robert derrick]

First, let me deal with your Jeremiah verse on Nebuchadnezzar... Yes, he is called a servant. The Hebrew definition in the case is manservant, bondsman or slave. That's a bit different from the Hebrew word for minister, which is (of all things) "minister". Now the Greek word for "minister" in Romans 13 has many meanings: attendant, waiter, a Christian teacher or pastor, a deacon or yes... a servant. The last one, and that's the one people want to use.

I have an expose for you. "Minister" appears in the Bible 161 times. 119 times it's used as a verb. Of the remaining 42 times that it is used as a title, there are only 6 times they refer to something other than a servant of God. Exodus 24:13 and Josh 1:1 are the first two. Joshua is referred to as the minister to Moses. 1 Kings 10:5 refers to Solomon's (the king) ministers. They were personal servants by the context given and not public servants. 2 Chr 9:4 is a repeat of 1 Kings 10:5. Gal 2:17 asks the rhetorical question of whether Jesus is the minister of sin. The last one I found is very interesting: 2 Cor 11:15 speaks of false prophets being ministers of Satan.

So there it is... 6 times where a minister is something other than a member of the clergy. That isn't a very strong supporting list, especially when nothing there pertains to a political structure.

"Ministers of God" or some variation thereof occurs 7 times in the Bible and EVERY TIME it speaks of the clergy.

With all this evidence, I have no problem saying that ROmans 13 is speaking about obeying the man of God.

I agree. We ought to obey God not man, pretty much sums it all up.

Paul cannot possibly be referring to ministers of corrupt gvt states. He didn't think for one moment that the Caesars were there doing God's work against evil. Occasionally perhaps, but rarely. Especially not the one that had him beheaded. And even more especially not the ones he used to side with that killed the Lord and martyred Stephen.

The most he had to say about them was to pray for them.

I give unto Caesar what is due Caesar: a penny. The same penny Jesus said was Caesar's.

I only obey those laws I agree with, that are proper and just. And if I don't and get caught, then I pay the fine or do the time. It's what Thoreau called 'civil disobedience', which he got from the Bible.

 

[robert derrick]

First, let me deal with your Jeremiah verse on Nebuchadnezzar... Yes, he is called a servant. The Hebrew definition in the case is manservant, bondsman or slave. That's a bit different from the Hebrew word for minister, which is (of all things) "minister". Now the Greek word for "minister" in Romans 13 has many meanings: attendant, waiter, a Christian teacher or pastor, a deacon or yes... a servant. The last one, and that's the one people want to use.

I have an expose for you. "Minister" appears in the Bible 161 times. 119 times it's used as a verb. Of the remaining 42 times that it is used as a title, there are only 6 times they refer to something other than a servant of God. Exodus 24:13 and Josh 1:1 are the first two. Joshua is referred to as the minister to Moses. 1 Kings 10:5 refers to Solomon's (the king) ministers. They were personal servants by the context given and not public servants. 2 Chr 9:4 is a repeat of 1 Kings 10:5. Gal 2:17 asks the rhetorical question of whether Jesus is the minister of sin. The last one I found is very interesting: 2 Cor 11:15 speaks of false prophets being ministers of Satan.

So there it is... 6 times where a minister is something other than a member of the clergy. That isn't a very strong supporting list, especially when nothing there pertains to a political structure.

"Ministers of God" or some variation thereof occurs 7 times in the Bible and EVERY TIME it speaks of the clergy.

With all this evidence, I have no problem saying that ROmans 13 is speaking about obeying the man of God.

I would go a step further and suggest that we only obey those things that are truly of Scripture, which is the only way anyone can look out for the souls of others.

If Paul could be wrong about the rule of Christ and mistakenly forbid relationships with any and all fornicators, then so can any minister and preacher of the Bible be wrong in certain points at certain times.

You can respect with honor their calling and service, without doing everything they say every time they say it.

The Bereans were more noble because they checked the Scriptures to see if what Paul was telling them was true with God or not.

 

[DPMartin]

And you have no idea what I've been through. I have been the subject of persecution and of cultish leadership, and open persecution is far more refreshing and up front than is false ministry and manipulation.

I don't fear them which want to openly kill my body and send me to the Lord. But I openly despise and expose any so-called representative of God, who has no clue what they are talking about according to Scripture, and especially them who do know what they are talking about and teach falsely on purpose for power and profit.

I don't whine. I condemn. And by doing so I have helped many other sincere believers avoid the belly of the beast I went through for over 15 years, that I will never get back. But that's alright, because the lessons in Scripture I have learned, and the great appreciation for the liberty that is in Christ Jesus and of His true Law, that have made it all worth it in my latter years.

So, if you feel so much for the persecuted Christians in China or anyone else, then go join them; otherwise, quit using them for your flag waving on your pseudo high ground.

spare me the drama, of which may not even be true, but if it is so what, getting back stabbed by those you might trust or think you should be able to trust is S O P in this world. you' re not the only one. there are those who are betrayed by family children spouses friends in the name of anything they can use to justify getting close enough to do it, and many trusting souls have their lives ruined for it. wake up and smell the sewage, drama queen.

WOW

 

[JunChosen]

So there it is... 6 times where a minister is something other than a member of the clergy. That isn't a very strong supporting list, especially when nothing there pertains to a political structure.

"Ministers of God" or some variation thereof occurs 7 times in the Bible and EVERY TIME it speaks of the clergy.

With all this evidence, I have no problem saying that ROmans 13 is speaking about obeying the man of God.

Well 6 out of 7 is a good percentage especially when one of those examples came directly from the mouth of God Himself out rightly.

"What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"

What about angels?

"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minster for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

Like a nurse who ministers to her patients?

To God Be The Glory