Evidence To Be Seen

[Wrangler]

were not called to be successful, only faithful!

Agreed. However, that does not answe the question; Why not leverage the pathway of evidence to bring people to Christ?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

We should not and need not abandon the field of evidence to the lost enemies of our Lord. See Psalm 19. In that thread, I made the following points. While faith is the evidence of things unseen, there is evidence to be seen. (In this thread, I want to compile the evidence.)

Are you required to prove God exists? No because failure is an option. We do not have to be all things to all people as Saint Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:22. Why not leverage the pathway of evidence to bring people to Christ? Let's reach people by all means, including evidence.

I agree and believe two ways we can witness in tangible ways are very practical anyway

1. One is proving medically that forgiveness in Christian spiritual healing is the differentiating factor that correlates with successful natural healing, while unforgiveness correlates with failure to heal, from disease, addiction, abuse or even damaged relationships.

2. Proving consensus is achievable in political relations and conflicts by applying Christian rebuke and healing to reconcile in truth and resolve issues voluntarily.

Can I work with you on plans to call together and organize fellow Christians on these two angles of proving the process of how God works through Christ to establish universal truth justice and peace, both internally and externally, both individually and globally?

Thank you, @Wrangler! Let us pray, and follow as God directs and unites us in Christ Jesus, Amen!

 

[theefaith]

I agree and believe two ways we can witness in tangible ways are very practical anyway

1. One is proving medically that forgiveness in Christian spiritual healing is the differentiating factor that correlates with successful natural healing, while unforgiveness correlates with failure to heal, from disease, addiction, abuse or even damaged relationships.

2. Proving consensus is achievable in political relations and conflicts by applying Christian rebuke and healing to reconcile in truth and resolve issues voluntarily.

Can I work with you on plans to call together and organize fellow Christians on these two angles of proving the process of how God works through Christ to establish universal truth justice and peace, both internally and externally, both individually and globally?

Thank you, @Wrangler! Let us pray, and follow as God directs and unites us in Christ Jesus, Amen!

It’s the church the apostles who have authority from Christ to teach Matt 28:19

 

[Wrangler]

It’s the church the apostles who have authority from Christ to teach Matt 28:19

I was thinking about the claim of the one and only true church. The evidence against is many who are not RCC pray to God in the name of Jesus.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

It’s the church the apostles who have authority from Christ to teach Matt 28:19

There are also different meanings of the church.

The broader meaning is the people embodying Christ become the Bride or Church.

I am fully aware there are Elders leading tribes or fellowship of followers.

Also the servants called to healing ministry have a special gift or role in TEAMS to administer and walk people through this process effectively.

Since you and I are one in faith, whatever you share with me I trust has meaning and truth to it that is critical, or God would not have you say it.

So of course there will be certain people, either Elders or Servants and others called to different roles in this process.

I have my role as well, which is more to interpret between tribes or people who speak and relate in completely different ways.

God orders us this way for a reason.

A tree, though with one trunk, with more branches can house more birds in more nests than a tree with only one branch.

We are joined in Christ, I thank you for your prayers and service to the Lord.

Your wisdom and ways of witnessing will reach the ones who need this the most, and will not be for those who need something else and who are called to focus on a different area of God's ministry.

Bless you and may all the people God calls you to serve help witness and bring God's truth wisdom and saving Grace through Christ to the Masses!

Yours truly in prayers in Christ Jesus.
More grace love and peace to you
and all souls served and saved in Christ
who works through you! Love and Thanks, Emily

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I was thinking about the claim of the one and only true church. The evidence against is many who are not RCC pray to God in the name of Jesus.

Okay what we can do and need to do anyway:
While researching and teaching spiritual healing prayer, which includes deliverance and exorcism, we can study the different effects of the
* Catholic way of conducting exorcisms
* Team prayer way that has been documented in one medical study on RA, and can be replicated to show effect on other conditions similar to the RA study (Rheumatoid Arthritis, study funded by Templeton Fdn on the Team methods used by Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt)

One key difference
The Team method only invokes and gives Authority to Christ Jesus
While the Catholic method has a Priest step into the role of Jesus and representing this Authority more directly.

This practice is what makes it dangerous.
As the demons attack the Priest equally as they fight to resist Jesus. But no human is the same as Jesus, we can invoke Jesus and embody Jesus, but cannot be Him who alone is Perfect and Sole Authority and Mediator.

So we would end up addressing these issues
1. Do other people besides Priests have ability to invoke Christ Authority to facilitate the forgiveness and healing that comes from God solely through Christ and not man's authority
2. Are Catholic Priests unnecessarily put in danger by assuming the role of Christ Jesus instead of invoking and recognizing His Authority

And for the political peacemaking, we can compel Catholic Priests to resolve grievances about abuses by setting up Catholic run prison programs where convicted Priests serving for life can minister to pedophile convicts in this spiritual healing process the RCC established as common practice.

The Priests need to apply it to themselves to cure the causes of the abuse. And the same healing process also cures other causes and forms of addiction and abuse, violence and crime.

The RCC being against the death penalty, this alternative solution would help the church and their followers and advocates for Restorative Justice to set up prison programs, treatment center and teaching hospitals for solving several problems at once.

@Wrangler @theefaith Please receive and pray with me over this possible solution and vision for the future of the RCC.

Could spiritual healing, deliverance and exorcism be studied and applied medically to diagnose treat and cure criminal illness especially pedophile and other dangerous addictions, so we can solve social, spiritual and political problems related?

Thank you, this may overshoot the simpler proof @Wrangler asked for.

But if it unites more people and solves several disputed areas at once, can we ask our Elders our church and state leaders to pursue better solutions?

Yours in Christ,
Emily

Let us pray for our Catholic political leaders called to serve in key positions for God's reasons and purpose: Biden, Pelosi, Ocasio-Cortez; as well as TX Christian leaders Lt Gov Dan Patrick, and Lt Col Allen West and Congressional Reps Sheila Jackson Lee.

 

[theefaith]

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

If Christ has authority (Matt 28:18 all authority) to change the commandments (Matt 5) then his church has authority!

Jn 20:21-23 The apostles in His church that He founded on Peter (Matt 16:18) and the apostles and their successors has the same mission, power, and authority as Jesus Christ!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission does Christ have?

The holy church, the apostles have the same authority, power, and mission, Christ choose successors to continue His mission, the apostles have the same authority! Jn 20:21-23

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments the abundant life of grace!

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

There are also different meanings of the church.

The broader meaning is the people embodying Christ become the Bride or Church.

I am fully aware there are Elders leading tribes or fellowship of followers.

Also the servants called to healing ministry have a special gift or role in TEAMS to administer and walk people through this process effectively.

Since you and I are one in faith, whatever you share with me I trust has meaning and truth to it that is critical, or God would not have you say it.

So of course there will be certain people, either Elders or Servants and others called to different roles in this process.

I have my role as well, which is more to interpret between tribes or people who speak and relate in completely different ways.

God orders us this way for a reason.

A tree, though with one trunk, with more branches can house more birds in more nests than a tree with only one branch.

We are joined in Christ, I thank you for your prayers and service to the Lord.

Your wisdom and ways of witnessing will reach the ones who need this the most, and will not be for those who need something else and who are called to focus on a different area of God's ministry.

Bless you and may all the people God calls you to serve help witness and bring God's truth wisdom and saving Grace through Christ to the Masses!

Yours truly in prayers in Christ Jesus.
More grace love and peace to you
and all souls served and saved in Christ
who works through you! Love and Thanks, Emily

there must be unity of faith
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[Gregory]

there must be unity of faith
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

There must be but there is not, this forum is pure proof. So now what do we do, wait for more apostles to show up and guide us by revelation from Jesus Christ like in the first century?

 

[theefaith]

There must be but there is not, this forum is pure proof. So now what do we do, wait for more apostles to show up and guide us by revelation from Jesus Christ like in the first century?

No obey the apostles Christ already sent to us to teach the truth
Unity is only found in the one true church
The new covenant
Thee faith of the apostles
Acts 2:42 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
The catholic and divine faith revealed by Christ to His apostles
Matt 28:19-20 the apostles still here still teaching the nations still baptizing the disciples I am with you (the apostles) until the end

 

[Wrangler]

 

[Wrangler]

I've neglected this thread for some time, wanting to turn our attention to evidence reliance on the Bible, which there is much. From today's Devotional Reading, this Golden Nugget. Paul is not impressed by human eloquence but is very sensitive to the power of the Spirit.


19 But I am coming to you soon, if the Lord wills; and I will take cognizance not of the talk of these arrogant people but of their power. 20 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of words but of power. Which do you prefer — should I come to you with a stick? or with love in a spirit of gentleness?
1 Corinthians 4:19-21 (Complete Jewish Bible)

 

[Wrangler]

were not called to be successful, only faithful!

While true, there is no REASON to abandon the field of evidence to unbelievers. :)

 

[Gregory]

I want to thank everyone for giving us information on this thread. I have learned a lot and have enjoyed watching each video and reading each post.
Thank you very much. Keep it up. This is the best thread ever.

 

[TEXBOW]

While true, there is no REASON to abandon the field of evidence to unbelievers. :)

I agree. I for lack of a better term think that evidence can be a trojan horse means of sharing the Gospel. Many intellectuals have put up a barrier and evidence can transition to faith. I think we would be surprised at how many are not aware of the evidence.

Thank you for your effort on this.

 

[Truth OT]

What Is Irreducible Complexity?

Irreducible Complexity – a Weak Argument | The Skeptical Zone

 

[Truth OT]

Mathematical Certainty, 356 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The odds that Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies and is not the Messiah is greater than the likelihood of DNA being correct by a factor too great to comprehend. From Is Jesus for Real? Mathematical Proof!

1. The time of His birth (see the Daniel 8 & 9 Timeline).
2. He would be born in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2)
3. He would be born of a virgin. (Isaiah 7:14)
4. He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. (Zechariah 11:12) He would be mocked. (Psalm 22:7,8)
5. He would be crucified. (John 3:14)
6. He would be pierced. (Psalms 22:16)
7. He would die with the wicked, but He would be buried with the rich. (Isaiah 53:9)

1. Disputed in that: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/
Based on the Hebrew original and context, Jews have very valid reasons for rejecting the Christian interpretation, and the New Testament authors never quote these passages and calculations as a proof-text.
2. Micah doesn't say a ruling Messiah figure would be born in the city of Bethlehem. It says the ruler would come from the lineage of the clan of Bethlehem of Ephrathah.
3. Isaiah 7 was NOT Messianic. The writer of Matthew errantly tried to fit this into the narrative to support his assertions regarding Jesus. Read the context of Isaiah 7 and it is OBVIOUSLY speaking of someone who is NOT a 1st century messiah.
4. Please read Zechariah 11. NOTHING about it is applicable to Judas. The New Writer was stretch here grabbing at straws.
5. John was written decades after Jesus would have lived and died, so calling it prophetic makes no sense.
6. Does Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53 even refer to Jesus of the 1st century? https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledg...d-s-suffering-servant-is-israel-and-not-jesus

 

[theefaith]

1. Disputed in that: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/
Based on the Hebrew original and context, Jews have very valid reasons for rejecting the Christian interpretation, and the New Testament authors never quote these passages and calculations as a proof-text.
2. Micah doesn't say a ruling Messiah figure would be born in the city of Bethlehem. It says the ruler would come from the lineage of the clan of Bethlehem of Ephrathah.
3. Isaiah 7 was NOT Messianic. The writer of Matthew errantly tried to fit this into the narrative to support his assertions regarding Jesus. Read the context of Isaiah 7 and it is OBVIOUSLY speaking of someone who is NOT a 1st century messiah.
4. Please read Zechariah 11. NOTHING about it is applicable to Judas. The New Writer was stretch here grabbing at straws.
5. John was written decades after Jesus would have lived and died, so calling it prophetic makes no sense.
6. Does Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53 even refer to Jesus of the 1st century? https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledg...d-s-suffering-servant-is-israel-and-not-jesus

Wow! Jesus Christ is not the messiah do Are they still waiting for the messiah?

If not Jesus Christ then it is strange that the Jews have no communication from thier God in over 2400 years?

daniel 70 weeks only a person in the 1st century could fulfill that prophecy

1. 1 John 2:22
   Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
   
   
2. 1 John 4:3
   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
   
   
3. 2 John 1:7
   For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Truth OT]

daniel 70 weeks only a person in the 1st century could fulfill that prophecy

Scholars do not agree. Many assign the prophecy as follows:
- The "prince who is to come" in verse 26b is typically seen by critical scholars as a reference to Antiochus IV
- In the 62 weeks period the city is rebuilt (verse 25b) and an "anointed one shall be cut off" (verse 26a); this "anointed one" is generally considered to refer to the High Priest Onias III as opposed to Jesus.
- The "covenant" in verse 27a most likely refers to the covenant between the Jewish hellenizers and Antiochus IV as reported in 1 Maccabees 1:11

Bottom line, no consensus, even among believers in the Old Testament narratives exists as it pertains to the meaning of the Daniel prophecy and each can give reasons for why their interpretation is right and others are wrong. That leave us with more ambiguity, a lack of specifics yet again, and that all results in uncertainty.

 

[Wrangler]

Irreducible Complexity – a Weak Argument | The Skeptical Zone

Claiming irreducible complexity is a weak argument does not make it so. It completely violates Darwin’s theory of random variation over time, where variation gives competitive advantage.

I’m not denying there is NO CHANGE over time. The issue here is the origin of the irreducible complexity. It destroys the heart of Darwin’s Theory.