What's in a Word

[Duckybill]

[sup]
16[/sup] For BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

Amen!

 

[dfj]

With a great deal of work researching the Greek texts, I can safely say that John 1:1 is not speaking about Christ at all.

Verses 1-5, the Logos and it's identity, meaning and composition is the only object in view.
Verses 6-8, witness and testimony regarding the ministry of Jesus that was to come.
Verses 9, the transition from the identity of the logos, (of ton theon), to the function of illumination, reserved for Jesus' incarnation that was approaching, ( background history).
Verse 10, still "Logos" is in view.
Verse 11, the transition, (ho Lógos sárx egéneto); The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.
Verse 12-13, Jesus Christ incarnate.
Verse 14, history of ho Lógos sárx egéneto.

Upon Christ's conception, He was filled with the Spirit of His Father and His Father's Logos. Although human, He was Theos in all respects.

The difficulty with those who are determined to call Jesus Christ, "God", is that it is not the correct term.

Most Translators have used this English word because there isn't another English word that can describe the full extent of who Jesus was as Theos and not intimate that He was the Father.

The early Greek manuscripts reveal that the English word translated, "God", is Ton Theon or Ho Theos or Theos, where the context clearly shows that the Father is in view. No where is there a statement, in Greek, that indicates that Jesus claimed to be "God" nor where the Greek term used indicates what the English word "God" implies.

 

[Duckybill]

With a great deal of work researching the Greek texts, I can safely say that John 1:1 is not speaking about Christ at all.

Verses 1-5, the Logos and it's identity, meaning and composition is the only object in view.
Verses 6-8, witness and testimony regarding the ministry of Jesus that was to come.
Verses 9, the transition from the identity of the logos, (of ton theon), to the function of illumination, reserved for Jesus' incarnation that was approaching, ( background history).
Verse 10, still "Logos" is in view.
Verse 11, the transition, (ho Lógos sárx egéneto); The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.
Verse 12-13, Jesus Christ incarnate.
Verse 14, history of ho Lógos sárx egéneto.

Upon Christ's conception, He was filled with the Spirit of His Father and His Father's Logos. Although human, He was Theos in all respects.

The difficulty with those who are determined to call Jesus Christ, "God", is that it is not the correct term.

Most Translators have used this English word because there isn't another English word that can describe the full extent of who Jesus was as Theos and not intimate that He was the Father.

The early Greek manuscripts reveal that the English word translated, "God", is Ton Theon or Ho Theos or Theos, where the context clearly shows that the Father is in view. No where is there a statement, in Greek, that indicates that Jesus claimed to be "God" nor where the Greek term used indicates what the English word "God" implies.

Like I said, if you are correct then we should throw away our Bibles and just read your translation. There is abundant proof in our English translations that Jesus is the Almighty God. Even WIG was forced to admit it. God can speak to any nation in their languages. He doesn't have to use Greek.

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[dfj]

Like I said, if you are correct then we should throw away our Bibles and just read your translation. There is abundant proof in our English translations that Jesus is the Almighty God. Even WIG was forced to admit it. God can speak to any nation in their languages. He doesn't have to use Greek.

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Then I guess for you, isogesis is more preferable and is superior to exogesis?

 

[Duckybill]

Then I guess for you, isogesis is more preferable and is superior to exogesis?

I guess your god can't speak or write in English. We don't have to be expert in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic to be saved DJ. Our English Bibles have been around for many years and so we have had LOTS of time to examine them. How about your version?

 

[dfj]

I guess your god can't speak or write in English. We don't have to be expert in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic to be saved DJ. Our English Bibles have been around for many years and so we have had LOTS of time to examine them. How about your version?

You do take a lot of liberties with people I see, I hope they are all content with that.

No one ever said that you had to be an expert on Greek, I'm not. But you should be at least teachable. The Heart of God has a great deal of room for exploring differences, I hope, in time, yours will also.

 

[Duckybill]

You do take a lot of liberties with people I see, I hope they are all content with that.

And that's you opinion, again.

No one ever said that you had to be an expert on Greek, I'm not.

Then why are you continually trying to re-write our Bible?

But you should be at least teachable.

I study God's Word. That's why I know you are wrong and Jesus is God Almighty.

The Heart of God has a great deal of room for exploring differences, I hope, in time, yours will also.

Jesus is God and I don't believe you are qualified to say otherwise.

Jn 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh ...

 

[dfj]

Then why are you continually trying to re-write our Bible?
I study God's Word. That's why I know you are wrong and Jesus is God Almighty
Jesus is God and I don't believe you are qualified to say otherwise.

Not trying to rewrite the Bible just clear up some misconceptions.

The study of the Word(s) of God requires diligence and sometimes looking at the original languages.

As far as qualifications are concerned the history of translating will show that I am as qualified as 90% of the Translators down through the years.

 

[dfj]

I study God's Word. That's why I know you are wrong and Jesus is God Almighty.

Please explain to me what I am wrong about.

I am still waiting for you to define the English word "God" ?

 

[Duckybill]

Not trying to rewrite the Bible just clear up some misconceptions.

Is that why when you get finished the clear meaning is drastically different? Satan is always busy attacking God's Word.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]For unto us A CHILD IS BORN, Unto us A SON is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace. [sup]7 [/sup]Of the increase of His government and peace THERE WILL BE NO END, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, EVEN FOREVER.

Please explain to me what I am wrong about.

I am still waiting for you to define the English word "God" ?

–noun 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

http://dictionary.re....com/browse/god

 

[dfj]

I study God's Word. That's why I know you are wrong

Lets see. I explained that, (Ho LOGOS), the Word of The Father was ,(THEOS), and I gave Lexical definitions of these terms.

Then I explained that, (Ho LOGOS), The Word of The Father became, (sarx), flesh in/as Jesus Christ. Can't get much more Divine than that.

I just refuse to use English terms that in any way intimates that Jesus Christ, The SON of God, is The Father, (denoted by the Word"G"od and the phrase God Almighty). which in the original languages, (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin), did not.

 

[Duckybill]

Since you deny Jesus/God and Hell please tell us DJ, just what is your religion? JW? Mormon? SDA? Fill us in. In case you ask, I'm Christian. I have no religious affiliation with any organization. I believe the Bible is God's Word.

Can't get much more Divine than that.

As in THE Creator?

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

I just refuse to use English terms that in any way intimates that Jesus Christ, The SON of God, is The Father, (denoted by the Word"G"od and the phrase God Almighty). which in the original languages, (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin), did not.

Why do you keep trying to separate the ONE TRUE GOD, Father, Son and Holy Spirit???

John 14:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? HE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

 

[tomwebster]

You've been going around and around on this topic for ten days now and you are never going to agree so why don't you let it go unless you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Duckybill]

You've been going around and around on this topic for ten days now and you are never going to agree so why don't you let it go unless you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you aren't interested why are you reading?

 

[tomwebster]

If you aren't interested why are you reading?

Just as I thought, you just want to argue.

 

[Duckybill]

Just as I thought, you just want to argue.

Christianity is based on the integrity of the Bible. If that doesn't interest you then what does?

Just as I thought, you just want to argue.

What then are you doing right now?

 

[jacobtaylor]

He also doesn't want to broaden his position beyond John 1:1-10 as well. He avoided my question about LORD "Jehovah" in Gen 18 twice now. All I want to know in his opinion, who is this? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit. The problem is it doesn't fit his struggle to prove Jesus was a man that received a favorable blessing during the NT account. If that's the case he must believe this visible walking, eating LORD named Jehovah was God the Father in Gen 18. This is a very important piece of scripture for both Jews and Gentiles. Abraham was the person God chose to make Himself and His ways know to men after the flood. He vowed by Himself that salvation would come to all the peoples and nations of the earth threw Abraham's family. Chapter 18 details a personal visit from one called Jehovah in the likeness of a man no less.

So who was this Dr David Jones?
What is in this word Jehovah found in Gen 18?

 

[dfj]

He also doesn't want to broaden his position beyond John 1:1-10 as well.

Not for right now Jacob, as the John 1 passages are a translation project that I am working on right now with several others.

I considered writing to this type of Christian forum because some of Greek forums tend to be somewhat denominationally biased.

He avoided my question about LORD "Jehovah" in Gen 18 twice now. All I want to know in his opinion, who is this? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit.
What is in this word Jehovah found in Gen 18?

I apologize for avoiding your question but Duckey has been keeping me busy.

I would like to address your question if you will clarify what you feel the relationship is between Yahweh,(Gen 18), and Jesus Christ?

You've been going around and around on this topic for ten days now and you are never going to agree so why don't you let it go unless you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Sorry Tom if it looks like argument on my part. I would like to assure you, that for me, it is a interpretive process that I am going through, in regard to the Johnian 1 passages for a project that I am working on.

Ducky is just keeping me focused.

 

[Duckybill]

DJ is very evasive at giving straight answers.

 

[dfj]

DJ is very evasive at giving straight answers.

Just careful not to give wrong answers