Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Renniks]

You defiantly think you can choose Jesus, even right up against His words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

You defiantly think you can come to Jesus in your "autonomous" power, even right up against His words of "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

According to Jesus, you DO NOT HAVE "the ability to act at one's own discretion" (from your post) unto believing in Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Therefore, your "choice" cannot be Lord Jesus Christ for you are reviling King Jesus' majesty (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Well then, literally nothing matters. I'm either in or out, no matter what I choose, and I can never know if I'm saved or not.
However, that's not the gospel.
The gospel is:
Glad tidings" or "good news, " from Anglo-Saxon godspell.
It's for all people not just some chosen ones.
"And the angel said unto them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people." Luke 2:10

"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
1 Corinthians 1:21

 

[Kermos]

Rotflol.

Where did the names come from?

Do you choose what to name a child? A cat, a dog?

Or do the names just fall into your mind?

Now you are adding "choose" into "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

Man, your "free will" sure abuses scripture!

Adam did not have a free will, and the recorded words of Genesis 2:19-20 exhibit action by Adam, not choice, but action with "call" and "gave".

No person after Adam was imparted a free will.

 

[post]

what the Apostle Paul wrote.

you need to pay attention to Romans 1-7

we, in Christ, through faith, are made new, reconciled with God. we wait for the completion of our redemption, "to wit" our bodies being fully brought into conformity with the image of Him -- but He has given us a surety, a new heart and a portion of His Spirit. the creation -- which is the rest of the created order waits eagerly for the restitution of all things, the resurrection. specifically, the rest of creation waits just as we do for Christ to appear and make us like Him.
the passage you keep quoting isn't about Adam; it's about the ground which was cursed for Adam's sake. we are not under this curse: we are in Adam, and Adam was never cursed.

 

[Kermos]

I agree. There was no offer. For salvation is not something that God offers to fallen man, but which comes out from His love. Salvation is grace and is by grace.

However, that does not mean God had not given man the ability and freedom to choose according to his will. The commandments of God to Adam presents a choice to Adam. He could either choose to obey or not obey God. Now that only shows that Adam had to choose. And his choice, needless to say, depends on his will. As such, Adam is a creature endowed by God as having his own will.

Tong
R3780

Tong2020, you wrote "He could either choose to obey or not obey God".

There is NO scripture that matches your writing.

Notice "choose" is nowhere in God's command to Adam in "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:16-17).

There is no "choose" in "she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

You are adding "choose" into the Word of God, so you are conveying that God's Word is not enough unless you add to God's Holy Word!

 

[Kermos]

Kermos would have us all believe that because Adam did not have free will, he was therefore following the will of God in bringing the entire human race into sin, rebellion, and condemnation. So God Himself instigated a rebellion against Himself and His laws, in order that He could condemn 90% of the population of all history and confine them eternally to anguish and pain.
It's like me raising a child, training him to be a thief, then punishing that same child for the success of obeying my training.
Kermos arrogantly calls those who disagree with this nonsense guilty of "adding to scripture", and says they are in danger of eternal damnation because they don't believe God's word. Yet they have no choice to their unbelief according to Kermos, because no-one has a choice in the faith, or lack of faith, so again, those who disagree with Kermos' philosophy are going to be punished by God for obediently succumbing to the way God makes them.
What an arrogant disgusting mischaracterisation of the nature of God. Kermos should be ashamed of himself. Except according to his own theology such, whatever he believes in, is because God willed it. So Kermos himself denies his own ability to change his mind. What a warped nonsense theology.

You, Backlit, along with @Renniks and @Enoch111 who liked your post, have one big post based entirely on your thoughts without any scriptural support.

The three of you are doing exactly what the Apostle Paul wrote "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" (Romans 9:19).

But, wait, there's more to what Paul wrote for people like you who answer back wickedly to the Word with "On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?" (Romans 9:20).

There's still more where Paul continues about God bringing glory to God "Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:21-23).

Each of you think you save yourself by way of your "choice" of Jesus; however, your rejection of the Word "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) is clearly evident; moreover, the more that you practice such lawlessness, the more you prove your stiffneckedness.

You add "choose" into the Word of God recorded here such as Genesis 2:16-17 and there such as Genesis 3:6, and you add with impunity - for now anyway.

Back to your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

Your adding to the Word of God is an arrogant prideful evil act against God by you.

Back to Paul's writing that shows Adam did not willingly eat of the tree "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV),.

No one after Adam gets a free will.

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

 

[Brakelite]

Kermos would have us all believe that because Adam did not have free will, he was therefore following the will of God in bringing the entire human race into sin, rebellion, and condemnation. So God Himself instigated a rebellion against Himself and His laws, in order that He could condemn 90% of the population of all history and confine them eternally to anguish and pain.
It's like me raising a child, training him to be a thief, then punishing that same child for the success of obeying my training.
Kermos arrogantly calls those who disagree with this nonsense guilty of "adding to scripture", and says they are in danger of eternal damnation because they don't believe God's word. Yet they have no choice to their unbelief according to Kermos, because no-one has a choice in the faith, or lack of faith, so again, those who disagree with Kermos' philosophy are going to be punished by God for obediently succumbing to the way God makes them.
What an arrogant disgusting mischaracterisation of the nature of God. Kermos should be ashamed of himself. Except according to his own theology such, whatever he believes in, is because God willed it. So Kermos himself denies his own ability to change his mind. What a warped nonsense theology.

You, Backlit, along with @Renniks and @Enoch111 who liked your post, have one big post based entirely on your thoughts without any scriptural support.

The three of you are doing exactly what the Apostle Paul wrote "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" (Romans 9:19).

But, wait, there's more to what Paul wrote for people like you who answer back wickedly to the Word with "On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?" (Romans 9:20).

There's still more where Paul continues about God bringing glory to God "Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:21-23).

Each of you think you save yourself by way of your "choice" of Jesus; however, your rejection of the Word "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) is clearly evident; moreover, the more that you practice such lawlessness, the more you prove your stiffneckedness.

You add "choose" into the Word of God recorded here such as Genesis 2:16-17 and there such as Genesis 3:6, and you add with impunity - for now anyway.

Back to your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

Your adding to the Word of God is an arrogant prideful evil act against God by you.

Back to Paul's writing that shows Adam did not willingly eat of the tree "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV),.

No one after Adam gets a free will.

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

You are correct. I didn't quote scripture. There's a reason for that. My commentary was on your nonsense understanding of reality... My comments were not a biblical exegesis. They were the logical understanding of what you believe pertaining to the character of God. That you claim a righteous holy God deliberately instigated a rebellion against Himself by coercing Adam to rebel and sin. Thus you make God Himself a co conspirator in the rebellion. That kind of thinking is blasphemous.

 

[post]

Post I see your promblem please don't make so many posts just make one or two with all the questions you made and the promblem is that you do not understand the old way of speaking of the hebrew how it was stated how G-d said to Adam you will not be in the garden of Eden and he left and he will die. You do not understand the old way of speaking and it special and the way People of the time of Abraham and Moses spoke how the rules was establish and the way of thinking we are heirs to that inheritance Jesus speak of but it is not that when G-d told adam you can't eat from the garden it was prohibited by him to take from the tree of life and an angel was placed to make sure none of his descandants take it Cain or Abel were not allowed.

When he was naked, if they knew what is death, and all those things need to be looked how the people of Abraham and Moses lived because they still have remnants understanding back in those days of experience and story told by thier fathers, fathers and fathers lineage told he gave the word to us and we continue his word you are trying to understand thinsg thru our modern times and thier gaps inside history for us to understand. So wait let me get you rood awakening guy and doug batchelor they will give you light in that understanding.

rood awakening guy

see them and they will give you explaination and to the right mindset and you will understand your questions ;D.

I found the sermon Christless and uninformative, and the 'rood' podcast a bit of a waste of time.

Not sure what you wanted me to get from that?

Adam had exactly one wife, and she had two names. He named her 'Woman' when she was created and God brought her to him, and then at their sentencing in Genesis 3 he changed her name to 'Eve'
Why did he do that, then?

Neither of your videos address this.

 

[post]

Scripture does not state Eve (Genesis 3:20) is a replacement for Woman (Genesis 2:23).

i didn't say she was a replacement. i asked why Adam called his wife Woman by the name Eve at the moment that he did so.

he changed her name ((lol not change wives)) -- why?

Here is a question:

Who is responsible for you grossly misunderstanding me?
Was it by your own will, or were you a helpless cog in God's grand scheme?

 

[Kermos]

Adam and Eve...adult bodies..yet mind of babes. While we later learn what they did was a sin...They had not yet been taught or even heard the word sin. After their error, of not obeying to avoid that tree, they immediately understood their WRONG, and do what little babes do...THEY HID....

Later we learn, God forgives "wrongs".
Later we learn, he whom God forgives, and he whom accepts God as their God...God "covers" their sin/wrong, (with His Light/ Spirit) and thus, as Light overcomes darkness, only Light remains, and thereafter, God does not See the forgiven wrong, and remembers it no more.

In conjunction with forgiveness and covering of a wrong/sin....is correction, punishment. Perhaps a scolding, a reminder, or God removing one from his presence.

God ... reminded them of what God had told them.
They ... truthfully admitted they ate.
God ... accepted their truthful admission.
God ... clothed (covered) their flesh (that had freely not obeyed) with animal skins.
( I presume an animals blood was shed, and God did not cover them with a living animal. )
God ... punished them by sending them out of Gods presence (in the Garden)
Later we learn Adam was accounted as a "son of God".


Gen 1,2,3 and Romans 4:7 and Luke 3:38 gives us in brief Gods Way.
Obey, disobey, receive punishment, accept correction, submit to belief, be forgiven, sins covered, trust, believe, commit, become a son of God.

God had not yet taught Adam and Eve of "what sin was, or what salvation was". They were given forgiveness, when God covered their flesh. They were given separation (punishment) when they were booted out of the garden. We know They believed in God, when we are told...Adam was a son of God.

A man has to first KNOW, he is sinful, before he can know he needs forgiveness. And KNOW, forgiveness is Offered, before he can request Gods Offering.
Adam didn't know, Adam was an exception...
Without history, without experience;
And since Adam, men have had history, experiences, other mens testimonies and experiences, for the last 6,000 years, learning Gods Word, and Gods Offering of Forgiveness and Salvation.

IS it God NOT "OFFERING" to Adam, ( that has you puzzled? ) That without Gods OFFERING, God gave Adam forgiveness?

Taken

You wrote "Adam and Eve...adult bodies..yet mind of babes".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORDGod formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field" (Genesis 2:19-20).

That is not a mind of an infant naming the beasts and the birds. @Taken you sure do contradict scripture!

 

[Kermos]

You eliminated even considering evidence, before you even heard it. Typical...

Oh, look you failed to provide scriptural evidence. You do not have any scripture to support your position that you convey that man can thwart God, so you are silent in your post about scripture!

Nothing, absolutely nothing, that God knows will happen can be thwarted by man (Job 42:2); therefore, Adam could not avoid that which God prophesied would happen in God's command to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17).

 

[Kermos]

Thank you for your answer. The thing is, billions of people didn't chose God, not out of free will but for lack of understanding. On the other hand, I know a number of alleged Christians who are really satanists and who pretend to have chosen Jesus although they never renounced Lucifer. They yet have been warned they won't go to Heaven unless they chose Jesus ONLY:

No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. (Matthew 6:24 and, similarly, Luke 16:13-15)

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24 and, similarly, Luke 18:25 + Mark 10:25).

The sad part is that some of them are not even rich but they still obey Lucifer and stick to the rules he gave to the rich and, even sadder, they think of themselves as Christians because a priest (unknowlingly) baptized them when John the Baptist definitely wouldn't have:

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." (Matthew 3:7-9 and, similarly, Luke 3:7-8)

So, do we have free will? Of course, we do and I suggest people who will read my post and who think of themselves as Christians although they really are satanists to use their free will to renounce Lucifer once and for all, choose Jesus for good and produce fruits worthy of repentance because, as stressed out by John the Baptist, a mere confession certainly isn't enough. I also suggest they think twice before rejecting the help I am offering them, publicly of via PM:

"Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." (Matthew 10:11-15 (and, similarly, Luke 10:10-12)

and, as warned in Luke 14:1-24, they won't be offered another chance.

I may not know the Bible as well as some priests, pastors and scholars do but I often (not always) understand it in ways they cannot because I met God, Jesus, Mother Mary and Archangel Michael during my first NDE and, during my second NDE, I received the grace those two verses tell about:

"Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures" (Luke 24:45)

"At that time Jesus said: I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." (Matthew 11:45 and, similarly, Luke 10:21-22).

One last word to satanists (and I'm sorry if I seem to troll but satanists really are the ones trying to pervert knowledge about free will to suggest it is ok to hurt people so I cannot really talk about free will without debunking Satanists false claims): Lucifer and Satan are not the same. Lucifer is an angel and suffering doesn't allow his power to grow. Satanists can therefore hurt people all they want, they can abuse their own children -- as all of them do -- Lucifer's power won't grow and it will remain way inferior to God's. Now, suffering does allow Satan to grow since Satan only is the aggregation of human's thoughts and emotions as Jesus hints in Matthew 16:23 and, similarly, Mark 8:33:

"Jesus turned and said to Peter: Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."

The problem is that since Satan is like spiritual filth and, as such, has no will of its own, it will fall down as pandemics, Earth quakes, tsunamis, climate change, etc. on all humans, Satanists included, just like dust spreads evenly in a house, but Lucifer cannot protect anyone from Satan, only God can.

Now when I say only God can protect from Satan, I really mean God, not Jesus as a person. This means that when Jesus says: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6), he really means : "Love is the only way to Heaven", as he clearly states in Mark 12:28-31:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him: 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?' The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength'. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself'. There is no commandment greater than these.”

Now, listen carefully, because this is going to be a lot to take in but it is the main teaching Jesus gave me when I was with him in Heaven: Jesus as God, e.g. as Love and not as a person, being the only way to Heaven, a loving Muslim or a loving Buddhist are closer to Jesus and more likely to go to Heaven than stone-hearted Christians. Jesus clearly gives this clue to those who have ears to hear:

"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." (John 10:16) and the shepherd will maybe not be called Jesus or even recognized as being Jesus but he will be the embodiment of the infinite Peace, Love and Bliss that God is.

To make a long story short: using our free will to choose God is not a one time thing, it is a continuous challenge and we should always choose Love over anything else. Christians who have a Bible instead of a heart and who end up looking down on anyone who isn't as good as they think they are -- for example judging homosexuals or despising Muslims, two attitudes which are sadly among the rare things Christians from all denominations agree on -- should meditate on that.

Look at every verse you mentioned, not a single one says man can choose God, not a single verse says man was imparted a free will.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Kermos]

Yes Adam was given free will and was created sinless. He chose to sin and surredered His free will! We have free will resotred when we are born again.

Ronald Nolette, you do not provide scripture citation for your writing of "Adam was given free will".

There is no free will mentioned in the creation account as recorded in Genesis 1-3.

In fact, the Apostle Paul had something to write about Adam and will.

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

"Not willingly" indicates "not free will".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

This means Adam did NOT choose to sin and surrender His free will.
Adam was not imparted a free will just as the original post shows, and no person thereafter has a free will either.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I agree. There was no offer. For salvation is not something that God offers to fallen man, but which comes out from His love. Salvation is grace and is by grace.

However, that does not mean God had not given man the ability and freedom to choose according to his will. The commandments of God to Adam presents a choice to Adam. He could either choose to obey or not obey God. Now that only shows that Adam had to choose. And his choice, needless to say, depends on his will. As such, Adam is a creature endowed by God as having his own will.

Tong2020, you wrote "He could either choose to obey or not obey God".

There is NO scripture that matches your writing.

Notice "choose" is nowhere in God's command to Adam in "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:16-17).

There is no "choose" in "she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

You are adding "choose" into the Word of God, so you are conveying that God's Word is not enough unless you add to God's Holy Word!

Not that what you think and see is what scriptures says.

If you cannot see the choice in the commandment in Gen.2:16-17, that is your problem, not mine. I am not adding to scriptures. You are just missing out and in denial. I would guess you would deny that man, even Jesus, have a will.

Consider this a simple commandment to you, love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Do you see the word “choice” in there? Nope.

Do you want to obey that or do you want to not obey it? Do you have the will to obey it or do you not have the will to obey it?

Tong
R3794

 

[Renniks]

The three of you are doing exactly what the Apostle Paul wrote "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" (Romans 9:19).

But we can't do that unless God made us do that in your little world. The answer to Paul's question btw is " everyone " Everyone sins and so resists God's will.

 

[Brakelite]

There is no free will mentioned in the creation account as recorded in Genesis 1-3.

Yes there is,
KJV Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Now it will be interesting to see you argue that God doesn't have free will.

 

[Taken]

You wrote "Adam and Eve...adult bodies..yet mind of babes".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORDGod formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field" (Genesis 2:19-20).

That is not a mind of an infant naming the beasts and the birds. @Taken you sure do contradict scripture!

Yes, I said "mind of a babe".
And Yes, You said;

"That is not a mind of an infant..."

DEFLECTIVE RESPONSE!
You responding to what I DID NOT SAY,
IS: Deception.
You making a false accusation to me personally, for WHAT YOU SAID,
IS: Conniving.

I said, "mind of a babe."
YOU said;

"THAT" (a mind of a babe) "is not the mind of an infant"...

DEFLECTIVE OFF POINT RESPONSE!
I understand the difference between;
The "mind of a babe" and The "mind of an infant".
I said NOTHING about Adam having the "mind of an infant",
I am not responsible for "your lack of understanding", of what the "mind of a babe", IS.
Nor am I responsible for "YOUR ACCUSATIONS", based on "your lack of understanding".

Your accusation;

Taken you sure do contradict scripture!

IS: deflective, conniving, false, irrelevant.

BACK to the POINT...
(FREEWILL of man), to which YOU FAILED to RESPOND.

"Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field" (Genesis 2:19-20).

You have REJECTED Adam (the man) having FREEWILL... YET clearly, Adam (the man) was Freely choosing BY HIS WILL, the NAMES of what Animals would be called.

TRY really hard to STAY ON POINT...
(FREEWILL of man)...

And EXPLAIN...(your conclusion) THAT:
Adam CHOOSING Names for the Animals, "WAS NOT" Adam's FREEWILL to Choose the Animal's Names.

Please POST a SCRIPTURE to VERIFY, (your Rejection of Adams FREEWILL)
A SCRIPTURE THAT REVEALS:
"Something ELSE MADE" ADAM choose the Animals names."

(*** Remember, the Scripture you are LOOKING FOR, is to VERIFY, (your conclusion, Adam did NOT have FREEWILL)...

I'll wait.

 

[Jostler]

Oh, look you failed to provide scriptural evidence. You do not have any scripture to support your position that you convey that man can thwart God, so you are silent in your post about scripture!

Nothing, absolutely nothing, that God knows will happen can be thwarted by man (Job 42:2); therefore, Adam could not avoid that which God prophesied would happen in God's command to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17).

I didn't see any reason to go to the Scripture, because that isn't going to change your mind. But, since you did actually state its impossible, I will make the time to share it for other's sakes. I'll put a link here when I get it done. There is scriptural record of TWO things that God said would happen, that DID NOT end up happening at all. And, the reason they didn't happen, was because David exercised the free will God gave him.

 

[Kermos]

Look I don't know how to make this any clearer: creation was not subject to decay until after Adam sinned! You can not blame Adam's sin on something that happened later. Besides it wasn't about Free Will at all, and it never says it was.

Paul did not write the "creation was not subject to decay" before Adam sinned in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul did not "blame Adam's sin on something that happened later" in Romans 8:20-22.

"the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Paul wrote "until now" (Romans 8:22) meaning that EVERYTHING in creation before Paul's timestamp of NOW.

This means Adam could NOT free will choose obedience to God's command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 because (A) Adam is part of creation and (B) Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You wrote the opposite of Paul with your "Besides it wasn't about Free Will at all, and it never says it was" because Paul wrote "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You try to subtract "until now" (Romans 8:22) from Paul's writing.

All this goes for you too, @Enoch111 since you liked @Renniks post.

Adam was not imparted free will just as the original post shows.

 

[Kermos]

This is so elementary. That's called the Law of Cause and Effect, which led to the Law of Entropy.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Even the time prior to the verse you quote is covered by Paul's "until now" in Romans 8:22.

"the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Paul wrote "until now" (Romans 8:22) meaning that EVERYTHING in creation before Paul's timestamp of NOW.

This means Adam could NOT free will choose obedience to God's command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 because (A) Adam is part of creation and (B) Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You try to subtract "until now" (Romans 8:22) from Paul's writing.

Adam was not imparted free will just as the original post shows.

 

[Jostler]

Paul did not write the "creation was not subject to decay" before Adam sinned in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul did not "blame Adam's sin on something that happened later" in Romans 8:20-22.

"the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Paul wrote "until now" (Romans 8:22) meaning that EVERYTHING in creation before Paul's timestamp of NOW.

This means Adam could NOT free will choose obedience to God's command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 because (A) Adam is part of creation and (B) Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You wrote the opposite of Paul with your "Besides it wasn't about Free Will at all, and it never says it was" because Paul wrote "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You try to subtract "until now" (Romans 8:22) from Paul's writing.

All this goes for you too, @Enoch111 since you liked @Renniks post.

Adam was not imparted free will just as the original post shows.

Predestination vs free will: is there really any conflict in Scripture?

There is the answer, Kermos.

Not one, but TWO things God "forknew "....that never happened at all....