Well things are not going to be left as-is.
If I can work to make things more black and white - I will do it. However, do understand that I feel a word like insult is pretty black and white many times, but there are always the exceptions. The quandary I experienced with this is that certain words can mean things in varying contexts. IE: I tend to let comments like "you're blinded to the truth" or you're "ignorant of the Word" go so long as the author does not continue to use terms like that. However, there is an undefinable point where if a person uses those phrases over and over in the same post - well that then comes into the flaming/insulting realm. Who is to say that specifically 4 or 5 times is worse than 3? What about the word hypocrite? When is it an insult and when is it a fair admonishment? Would not the statement - "that is hypocritical behavior" be a better way to make the case than "you're a hyocrite?" The Biblical cases I can think about didn't break down into shout matches. Take Paul and Peter. I never saw the lines: "Peter you're a liar!" "Paul you're an idiot!"
Here is the HCSB translation of what took place:
[bible=Galatians 2:11-21]
When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
“We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
“But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
[/bible]
If you were to port that same situation to our site, it'd sound more like this scenario:
Poster #1 (OP) It is a sin for Jews to be amongst Gentiles - they're unclean!
Poster #2 [Insert Bible verses.] God's Word clearly shows that you're wrong. You're a babe in Christ not ready for milk! It's hypocrisy for you to say this about the Gentiles because we're saved by Christ not by the physical act of circumcision and the law.
Poster #1 I'm not going to throw my pearls before swine. You need to go back and read the OT and NT to see that we are still under the law! You are clearly lying about what you read in Scripture!
.... {End Scenario}
Most of those lines are taken from posts made here. I've literally also had Poster #2 report Poster #1.
I appreciate your experience at moderating other large forums - perhaps you can share things that have worked there - I've been at a couple with 10k's or 100k's of posters and I'd say I have far more issues here. (Granted, these were fairly benign secular topics.) My point is that I welcome suggestions, but I have been there too. Sometimes it's a different dynamic when dealing with faith - and it should be.
I've resorted to sending PMs first, followed by warnings (which deduct points and ban after x times), used some temporary bans and permanent bans. I've had complaints that this is not enough. I cannot make everyone happy and will not attempt to do it, but I prefer the personal message. If you'll notice, the
Account Disabled title is given to people who were banned as well as people who have their accounts shutdown or whatever else they may want. I jump to public rebukes when I see it going on between multiple members or I feel like I need to make a point.
I get the feeling we're having trouble distinguishing what I mean. I'm not trying to quell argument and debate, I'm trying to point out that the methods in practice are the problem. Disagreement is fine; but how you handle that disagreement can range from well to very poorly. Right now the very poor handling of it is rampant. You have to account for personalities that just do not get along of course, but the discussion here has moved well beyond that.
Let's jump back to your heresy comment. If you feel that way about CB, why do you stay here? Do you feel better off antagonizing the heresy or is there maybe something of value here? I don't ban for an answer to a question like that, it's just an interesting statement to make.
I'd like to add to this even one of the moderators is universalistic... Doesn't that paint a picture of the level of "core Christian values" that are accepted- or rather- ignored, here??
You can trash the Son, the Father, the Bible... But you should all feel shame if we call someone out on hypocrisy????
Yes, you are correct in that one of our moderators indeed believes in Universalism. I had a struggle with this one aspect of his - and we talked about it and we clearly disagree on the subject. However, we mutually disagree with respect. I've also seen this moderator handle situations with patience and we agree on Jesus being the way with no compromises.
Are you not then doing the passive aggressive tactic that you accused another member of doing - perhaps be it a little more overtly? "Well you guys essentially throw the Bible out and step on the Word because you appointed a Universalist to the staff." I'd say that's a paraphrase of what was said, correct? Well, my reply is simply that we'll all be wrong on things. My prayers spent over the topic lead me to realize that this person maintains the Jesus-only reality of Christianity and that things like that are what matter. I personally believe that souls will essentially be annihilated in the lake of fire which conflicts with the traditional Milton view of hell, and so be it. I'd appoint a moderator if he or she believed in a hell of eternal torment. Last time I checked, there wasn't a card for believing in hell that we had to carry to be Christian. It's simply not a salvational issue, and personally I think it says something about the character of the person that they'd accept the Son now instead of "enjoying" the world to be saved at a later date. I know of Christians who'll preach a hell hotter and more painful than any other, but boy they'll turn they're back on you in an instant. I've had it done firsthand to me in a situation not related to our beliefs (which they did not even know mine about hell).
Hammerstone... I have always thought of doing my own site as I have IT degrees. But after being tested here I can say that I would have failed the test as an administrator and would have ended up in deep depression over it all. So my apologies for anything inappropriate on my part. I have simply never knew anyone disrespectful to my country or denomination and was unprepared for it all.
Well, if you'd be interested in helping here, I'm all ears.
I will say that I make a terrible administrator. I've had to learn the hard way and the Lord has knocked me quite hard anytime I get too proud or too happy about numbers. Christianity Board has touched lives - I've had the first hand testimonials of it. One guy went into seminary because of this website. Others came here when they had nothing else. We're headed towards averaging 10k uniques a month again. We've literally reached dozens of countries and touched some lives along the way. Yes I was apart of that and I founded this website 5 years ago this month. However, God did it.
Not me. Even when I neglected my duties God shepherded. There was no logical reason this board jumped into the top searches just months after it was born. There's no logical reason that this place held together in my absences from time to time. Yet God sent the perfect people at those times to get it through. Sadly this website broke a couple friendships - they may even be reading this thread - but the moments it helped me to get by are more than worth the anguish.
My point is that you literally never know who reads what. Heck folks, we don't know that we might be talking to an angel (a cup of water, a morsel of food - Matthew 25:35) in one of these threads. At the same time, you might be talking to a person who got on this forum after a Google search in a last ditch effort not to commit suicide and end his/her life. You never, ever know. We Christians have to handle ourselves as the light and that means showing the same grace our Lord showed us. In the grand scheme, you and I can be wrong and it won't affect God. His will gets through no matter what, but that is why Christianity is different. It's not about following a set of laws to reach another plane. It's not about following laws to look in the right direction at the right time of day. It's not about just generally being a nice guy/girl. However, we have to have the discipline to choose battles and more importantly choose words. When the Holy Spirit moves, it never was about insults in the Bible. He manifested the power of God which might have shown that person to be an idiot (for lack of a better term), but the focus was on the power and majesty of God and not the stupidity of the human on the other end.