Freedom To Sin

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,176
3,301
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
fear is unbelief; unbelief is sin.

Where did you learn that? This is a private interpretation not found in scripture. Not even the world defines ‘fear’ as you have.

But here’s ’fear’ according to the Bible:

"The fear of the LORD is clean" (Psalms 19:9)

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom" (Psalms 111:10)

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" (Proverbs 1:7)

"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil" (Proverbs 8:13)

"The fear of the LORD prolongeth days" (Proverbs 10:27)

"The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life" (Proverbs 14:27)

"…by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6)

"…the fear of the LORD is his treasure." (Isaiah 33:6)

"…perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Then had the churches rest …and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 9:31)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The word fear here is getting twisted.... which happens ALL the time in these discussions....
 
  • Like
Reactions: post

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The word fear here is getting twisted.... which happens ALL the time in these discussions....

i get the feeling he'd really like to sidetrack the discussion.
understandable.
it's gotta be a pretty uncomfortable thing for him to face.
i know it was for me, at first, when The Light dawned
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,176
3,301
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"do not be afraid"
- Jesus​

Afraid of what?

Give us the full scripture reference.

There is no scripture that says not to fear God. NONE.

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." (Luke 12:5)

-Jesus
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Afraid of what?

Give us the full scripture reference.

There is no scripture that says not to fear God. NONE.

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." (Luke 12:5)

-Jesus

you know what i mean.
if for a single moment having once believed, you fail to completely trust Him, you are in unbelief, and it is sin.
can that be forgiven? the soteriology you're preaching says, 'no'

bro you're calling the process of maturation in Him an unforgivable sin, are you not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected
(Philippians 3:12)​

apparently Paul isn't saved?

but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
(Philippians 3:12)​

wow why does he bother? has he never heard of Hebrews 10:26?
and what's this about Christ having been the one Who laid hold of him?? ain't it the other way around, as i've been hearing?
a pity if God is found unable to carry out His purpose!

Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended
(Philippians 3:13)​

how blessed we would be to read the posts of someone who actually has!
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,176
3,301
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@post

I suppose we won’t be resolving anything or come to any agreement.

But I’m glad you’re involved in the things of God and encourage you to read the Holy Bible frequently with constant meditation.

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." (Psalms 1:1-2)

"Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Timothy 4:13-16)

Be blessed my friend!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,483
1,916
113
55
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
fear is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
worry is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
doubt is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
vanity is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
ingratitude is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
impatience is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
despair is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
apathy is unbelief; unbelief is sin.
self-pity is unbelief; unbelief is sin.

Fundamentalist textualism has a total fear of surrendering to the work of the Holy Ghost in their life, because this leads to a loss of control of the will of man, and a failure to make room for the revelation and teaching of the Holy Ghost, thus the textual fundamentalist is living in as much unbelief as the Charismatic or the proponent of conditional security.

Doubt is both a healthy thing and a sign of unbelief, to say you have no doubts is to not be human, when someone makes a claim you naturally doubt that claim if not then "I have bridge to sell you". To overcome that doubt is when fellowship is had. so for example a person claims they are sent from God, it is healthy to doubt that, It is healthy to question that as there are so many false prophets out there, By all means test the Spirit in them and no man of God would be offended by this. But what to do if we find that this person is sent from God to warn us? If we receive Him we will have fellowship if we reject him our doubt has turned to sin.

The same can be said of all the above character flaws, they are all human reactions to a sinful world and at times are healthy, for example worrying about something can lead to action instead of inaction, But when it paralyzes the individual it is unbelief and your equation works. Fear is another concept you can add to your list. Fear is a healthy human reaction to adverse situations yet when it Hinders our growth in Christ, because we fear surrendering to the work of the Holy Ghost in our lives this is when it becomes sinful. Most textual fundamentalists are afraid of this sort of surrender because there is uncertainty there, They feel like they are losing control, as a state of anomie and insecurity is there, But what it is like is stepping off a cliff into the arms of a living and loving savior. They then fear the unknown and unknowable so much that their fear leads to their unbelief and lack of faith.

Unbelief is the root of all sin. Part of that unbelief is denying the providence of God to overcome the giants in the land. The biggest giant in the land now is our sin nature and we can overcome this giant by the providence of God which will eventually lead us into the Promised Holy Land to come. When I am weak, then I am strong.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,543
17,235
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm hearing this routinely, that those who teach that we are fully and completely forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, by the same token preach that we are free to sin "all we want", that "sins don't matter", that we take a light view of sin in some way.

The topic of Gnosticism has come up again. How often have I been called Gnostic? I have no idea. I've heard this for years. But the historical Gnostics were something else altogether.

People bring up the passages which talk about "former sins", as if these sentences were lifted out of their historical place, and were talking about their own lives, some point in each of our lives where we say, "My former sins". We can talk about those.

We can talk about the notion of how a 'creature condemned in sin' is at the same time united by God's Spirit to Himself. Forgiveness must be total, because God is Holy. We can discuss how any incomplete forgiveness has to discount God's holiness.

There is justification, not only declaring us innocent and righteous, but giving birth to us, sharing God's Own nature, righteous and holy. We can talk about that if you want.

What I mostly want to talk about is this idea that believing we are completely and permanently forgiven of all sin past present future somehow releases us into a cesspool of sinning.

I don't see that.

In the first place, well, here's a poll I think I know how everyone will answer.

Do you want to commit sin? Do you wake up in the morning thinking, OH, I hope I can get in some sinning today! Maybe even a little depravity? Anyone?

Or is it more like what Paul said,

Romans 5:18-21 to 6:1-7 KJV
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Aren't these more what we want?

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

What I like talking about is how when we come to understand that there really IS no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, that this unlocks our faith to stand in His grace.

Much love!
I don't believe in presalvation rights. I think many covet the things of God and say they are saved. Salvation comes when we are judged according to our works, resurrected and drawn into heaven to be with God. Jesus is heard repeatedly warning people that don't do good works. And there just isn't enough biblical support for me to assume I'm saved, there are only a couple verses which are most likely referring to what Jesus can do for us after judgment time. I'll just remind people of what Jesus says:

Matthew 3:8-10

King James Version

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suppose we won’t be resolving anything or come to any agreement.

so you're saying, you do not have an answer for the essential topic of our discussion today, and you have no interest in discovering one?

which essential topic is this:

The wilfull sins of a born again believer cannot be reconciled.

you say willful sins of a believer cannot be reconciled.
you have sin; therefore how is it you are still saved?
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Doubt is both a healthy thing and a sign of disbelief... REALLY??????? These purposely twisted statements that continue to be made for the sake of winning an argument.... The unbelief that @post is referring to is regarding GOD..... and someone has decided to give a sermon on this topic using doubting people as an example.... I have found that doubting people is wise.... doubting God is NEVER healthy or wise.... it is a sign of unbelief and it is always a sin. GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and post

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doubt is both a healthy thing and a sign of disbelief... REALLY??????? These purposely twisted statements that continue to be made for the sake of winning an argument.... The unbelief that @post is referring to is regarding GOD..... and someone has decided to give a sermon on this topic using doubting people as an example.... I have found that doubting people is wise.... doubting God is NEVER healthy or wise.... it is a sign of unbelief and it is always a sin. GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!

thank you =]
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,543
17,235
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so you're saying, you do not have an answer for the essential topic of our discussion today, and you have no interest in discovering one?

which essential topic is this:



you say willful sins of a believer cannot be reconciled.
you have sin; therefore how is it you are still saved?
You are saved by the grace of God if you are judged worthy of that salvation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michiah-Imla

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,176
3,301
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so you're saying, you do not have an answer for the essential topic of our discussion today, and you have no interest in discovering one?

You are not paying attention to what I am saying.

If you feel good about yourself putting words in my mouth after I left you with words of kindness, god bless you.

But know this:

"…That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (Matthew 12:36)

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,543
17,235
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OH Devin!!!!!!!!!! SIGH....
Judgement is real

Revelation 20:12
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

some will be on the left hand of the scales of judgement and some on the right hand:

Matthew 25:41-46

New International Version

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,483
1,916
113
55
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doubt is both a healthy thing and a sign of disbelief... REALLY??????? These purposely twisted statements that continue to be made for the sake of winning an argument.... The unbelief that @post is referring to is regarding GOD..... and someone has decided to give a sermon on this topic using doubting people as an example.... I have found that doubting people is wise.... doubting God is NEVER healthy or wise.... it is a sign of unbelief and it is always a sin. GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!

It was the two witnesses that were doubted by the Israelites which prevented them from entering the promised land, two men of God. It was this fear of the giants of the land that prevented them from entering God's resting place. As a result they all died in the wilderness in unbelief. Our sin nature is that giant in the Land, and Christ has Given us His Spirit to overcome that Giant but instead we choose to make excuses and fear relinquishing control to the Spirit he has given us to sanctify us and overcome that giant. There is victory in Jesus not just supression of Human sinful nature, but overcoming that nature, but you would not know any of that until you submit to His working in you.

God Bless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.