Biblical Mary

[TheslightestID]

May as well try to get something cleard up while I'm here...where does the "Say 3 (or however many) hail Mary's" come from? Is that biblical, and if so, please show me scripture, or is it made up by people in a church?

 

[TheslightestID]

I see no point in reposting Illuminators post.
It's there for you to look at.

Ok, dont worry about it.

 

[TheslightestID]

In other words you didn't but won't admit it.

Resorting to lying now? Sad.

 

[Mungo]

Resorting to lying now? Sad.

It's not me who is lying.

 

[Taken]

Really?
So, even though God is SPIRIT - YOU believe that He has -
Nostrils? (Exod. 15:8)
Wings? (Psalm 17:8)
Feathers? (Psalm 91:4)

These are the idiotic conclusions that ultra-literalists like YOU must arrive at when you read Scripture - instead of understanding that SOME things are figurative or symbolic.

There are many differences between you and me....
Pointing out per this post...
You conclude and are bold to say, what I believe is idiotic.

I am bold to speak for myself to say without shame...
I TRUST to BELIEVE WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS, IS TRUE
* Whether or Not Scripture "makes logical sense IN MY MIND" ... "it is perfect understanding IN MY spirit".

You, revealing, it is idiotic to Trust Scriptural Truth, as it stands, IS a Reflection ON YOU.

* You are sorely misguided if you think, your Negative Carnal Minded Opinions have any negative effect on me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Post# 805

Actually you mean your own personal and fallible interpretation if the word of God.
Or do you think all your interpretation is infallible?

What is it that is so hard to understand in the scriptures that need some special secret interpretation from a church organization?

The secret that needed to be revealed to us, by which all the Old Testament prophecies are interpreted, was the gospel of Jesus Christ and the salvation found in him.

All else is plainly understood just by having basic reading comprehension.

Do you really need an interpretation for such scriptures as this:

"Thou shalt not steal." (Exodus 20:15)

So if I read this scripture without the guide of a man and actually fulfill it by not stealing, does that mean I have infallible interpretation skills????

Stop it with the “interpretation” game.

 

[Taken]

Resorting to lying now? Sad.

"In other words".... an old form of cunningness that is a mainstay of Catholic men.... You speaking for yourself is not authentic enough...They speaking for you is their MO.
(Then demand you to defend "their words"...
LOL )

 

[BreadOfLife]

There are many differences between you and me....
Pointing out per this post...
You conclude and are bold to say, what I believe is idiotic.

I am bold to speak for myself to say without shame...
I TRUST to BELIEVE WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS, IS TRUE
* Whether or Not Scripture "makes logical sense IN MY MIND" ... "it is perfect understanding IN MY spirit".

You, revealing, it is idiotic to Trust Scriptural Truth, as it stands, IS a Reflection ON YOU.

* You are sorely misguided if you think, your Negative Carnal Minded Opinions have any negative effect on me.

If you are a wooden literalist when it comes to Scripture - then the things you believe ARE idiotic.
You haven't yet learned that Scripture is sometimes allegorical or symbolic or metaphorical.

God doesn't have wings or nostrils or feathers - anymore than YOU can be "beside yourself" with anger or wear your "heart on your sleeve".

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Post# 807

No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts the Bible (properly interpreted).

“Properly understood”?

“Properly interpreted”?

The way man PROPERLY understands ANYTHING is by the word of God:

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104)

So to get the “proper understanding and interpretation” of scripture I am to go to the very source that the scriptures warn me not to put any confidence in?

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." (Psalms 118:8)

Go to a man and be:

"…carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" (Ephesians 4:14)

Your reasoning only works on the simple minded:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:17-18)

 

[TheslightestID]

It's not me who is lying.

This really is hilarious. You are so unable to defend your position, you have great need to grab hold of somthing like this and use it for all you think it's worth in order to give the appearance of some type of success defending yourself.

But in reality, firstly, its very obvious what you are doing, and secondly, at the end of the day, the leaders of the Catholic church, are still just people in a church, and not all, but some of which are very bad people. And by "very bad", I mean unusually bad, or not your typical everyday sinner.

And again, no, the fact we are all sinners, doesn't even come close to minimizing pedophilia.

But, hey, wouldn't you say it's about time we conveniently shift back to that question I supposidly didn't answer? ;) Yeah, that's it, let's talk about that instead....*eye roll

 

[Michiah-Imla]

GENERAL BIBLE QUESTIONS

1.) True or false: The Bible has a verse(s) that lists what books belong in the Bible.

If true, quote the chapter and verse______________________________

2. If the Bible doesn't tell us what books belong in it, then is the Bible's "table of contents" merely a human tradition?
A) yes
B) no, its not by "merely human tradition" that compiled the Holy Books
C) all traditions are to be condemned

3. If the list of Biblical books is not revealed in the Bible itself, what men drew up the list?
A) Luther, Calvin, Knox, and Zwingli
B) The Twelve Apostles
C) The Jewish Council of Jamnia in the 1st century
D) Several Bishops in 4 councils from the 2nd to the 4th century

4. Why do you trust these men?
A) they were guided by the Holy Spirit
B) their offices were of direct descent from the Apostles
C) they were unanimous in faith and practice
D) all of the above

5. Is their list infallible? (without error)
A) yes
B) no, Luther removed the added books 1100 years later and made
it infallible
C) no, the Jewish council of Jamnia (95 AD) had more authority about the canon of scripture than Christians, even though they rejected Christ and the message of the New Testament.
D) No, the bible came from God, it didn't come from man, that's why its infallible.

6. If the list of books in YOUR Bible is infallible, on what authority is it so?
A) by virtue of the office of the bishops who proved which ones of the many books were inspired
B) the power to bind and loose which was given to the Church
C) by the authority of Christ which lives in the Church
D) King James, who gathered the books from the Apostles, and lived to be 1600 years old.
E) I trust the publisher
F) A, B, C

7. True or False: Even though the list of books in the bible is not in the bible, it is an infallible list.?

8. If their list is not infallible, and is merely a human tradition, why do you trust it? On what authority?
A) God decided the list, not men. That is why I trust it, on the authority of the Holy Spirit, Who had no need of men to make the list.
B) the list IS infallible, on the authority that Jesus gave to sinful Church leaders.
C) the list IS infallible on the authority that the Holy Spirit gives me a good feeling about it.

9) Some claim the Bible says that unless doctrines are explicitly found in scripture, they cannot be trusted. State any explicit biblical basis for this doctrine, Old or New Testament.

10) If (9) has no verses to support the claim, but you accept it as a doctrine anyway, isn't that an extra-biblical "rule of faith and practice", or an extra-biblical doctrine?
A) yes
B) no

11) Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
A) The Gospels
B) The Epistles
C) Revelation
D) nowhere

12. True or False: Jesus told all His apostles to write things down.

13. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based on a book?
A) The Gospels
B) The Epistles
C) Revelation
D) nowhere

14. If the authors of the New Testament believed in Sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God's Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14;15)?
A) once its written, its no longer tradition
B) oral Tradition is part of Divine Revelation and just as authoritive

15. A few Christians claim that Jesus categorically condemned all oral tradition (Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them that to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they "sit on Moses' seat" (Matt 23:2)?

This all sounds so much like this:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" (Genesis 3:1)

You seem to fulfill this scripture:

"He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth." (1 Timothy 6:4-5)

 

[TheslightestID]

"In other words".... an old form of cunningness that is a mainstay of Catholic men.... You speaking for yourself is not authentic enough...They speaking for you is their MO.
(Then demand you to defend "their words"...
LOL )

You got it.

 

[Taken]

So, you DON'T believe that Jesus is God?
You ran from that question earlier.

OR - do you believe that He IS God - but that His BODY was not human but some kind of "illusion"?
Don't run this time . . .

I didn't run from the question.
I ignored it!

So, you DON'T believe that Jesus is God?

"So, you don't believe'.... is indictative of me having had made such a claim.

"IF" I had made such a claim....YOU COULD HAVE QUOTED MY WORDS...

"IF" you properly QUOTE MY WORDS, making such a claim...
"AND IF" you properly ASK ME ANYTHING, pursuant to MY QUOTED WORDS...

"THEN" I will respond to your asking, about WHAT I SAID.

"Until such time, NO, I will not respond to WHAT you declare FOR ME".

do you believe that He IS God

Ofcourse God IS He that IS God.

- but that His BODY was not human

Ofcourse Gods BODY IS NOT Human.

but some kind of

"illusion"?

* Illusion definition is - a misleading image presented to the vision

No, I have never said I believe anything such thing.

Scripture clearly informs the reader;
God IS not to be SEEN by the EYES of Humans.
God Prepared a Body, FOR HIS WORD, FOR WHEN HIS WORD would come into THIS WORLD.
Clearly told and shown you on more than one occasion.
His BODY was prepared IN HEAVEN, BY GOD, FOR WHEN He would come into this world.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Gods OWN WORD...TOOK UPON HIMSELF THE FORM (which IS a BODY)...OF a SERVANT (which is one who Serves Gods Purpose)...

Phil 2: (a)
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...

Phil 2: (b)
and was made in the likeness of men:

That is not an "illusion" of trickery.

That is expressly Gods Word, taking UPON Himself the bodily Form of a 'human man"...
To appear "in the Likeness" AS A HUMAN MAN...
SO a HUMAN MAN....COULD SEE HIM!

Men in Jesus' day, who SAW THE BODY He TOOK upon Himself...
DID NOT SEE His Spirit BODY,
DID NOT SEE His Spirit,
DID NOT SEE His Soul.

WHAT men DID SEE...Was a BODY God Prepared.
WHAT men DID SEE...Was A REFLECTION of God.
WHAT men TODAY are supposed to UNDERSTAND...IS GOD is the Creator, NOT the Created...(as you preach saying God IS A Human, in a Wicked TEMPTING, of TRYING to get other men to FALL FOR Wicked Temptations...
And further Wicked teaching that God Fertilized a human womans seed, to procreate a Half spirit, Half Human "unholy" thing.)

From Jesus' day and teaching forward...
God IS HOLY...too holy to be SEEN or HEARD, (as HE IS), BY HUMAN Eyes, BY HUMAN Ears.

John 5:
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

KNOWING who God IS ... IS Knowledge.
Seeing God as He is ....... IS Forbidden
Understanding WHO God IS, without SEEING, IS a Blessing.

John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[Mungo]

Post# 805


What is it that is so hard to understand in the scriptures that need some special secret interpretation from a church organization?

The secret that needed to be revealed to us, by which all the Old Testament prophecies are interpreted, was the gospel of Jesus Christ and the salvation found in him.

All else is plainly understood just by having basic reading comprehension.

Do you really need an interpretation for such scriptures as this:

"Thou shalt not steal." (Exodus 20:15)

So if I read this scripture without the guide of a man and actually fulfill it by not stealing, does that mean I have infallible interpretation skills????

Stop it with the “interpretation” game.

Of course there are some scriptures that do not need much or no interpretation, although some may dispute what stealing actually is.

But if all scripture were that simple we would not have these endless disputes: baptism regeneration, OSAS, sacraments, authority, Justification, Atonement, nature of the church etc. etc.
But if all scripture were that simple we would not have 40,000 different protestant denominations, sects and 1 pastor churches teaching different and contradictory doctrines.

 

[Mungo]

Post# 807



“Properly understood”?

“Properly interpreted”?

The way man PROPERLY understands ANYTHING is by the word of God:

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104)

So to get the “proper understanding and interpretation” of scripture I am to go to the very source that the scriptures warn me not to put any confidence in?

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." (Psalms 118:8)

Go to a man and be:

"…carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" (Ephesians 4:14)

Your reasoning only works on the simple minded:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:17-18)

Catholic doctrine properly understood means what the Catholic Church actually teaches not some false version concocted by Protests so they can then refute it.

For scripture properly interpreted see my previous post.

 

[Mungo]

This really is hilarious. You are so unable to defend your position, you have great need to grab hold of somthing like this and use it for all you think it's worth in order to give the appearance of some type of success defending yourself.

But in reality, firstly, its very obvious what you are doing, and secondly, at the end of the day, the leaders of the Catholic church, are still just people in a church, and not all, but some of which are very bad people. And by "very bad", I mean unusually bad, or not your typical everyday sinner.

And again, no, the fact we are all sinners, doesn't even come close to minimizing pedophilia.

But, hey, wouldn't you say it's about time we conveniently shift back to that question I supposidly didn't answer? ;) Yeah, that's it, let's talk about that instead....*eye roll

Your responses are just diversions from your failures to provide evidence for your claims.

 

[Taken]

If you are a wooden literalist when it comes to Scripture - then the things you believe ARE idiotic.
You haven't yet learned that Scripture is sometimes allegorical or symbolic or metaphorical.

God doesn't have wings or nostrils or feathers - anymore than YOU can be "beside yourself" with anger or wear your "heart on your sleeve".

YAWN...
Repeating your opinion and trying to puke your opinon on me...is a FAIL.

Go lap up your own puked out opinion unto yourself.

As I have told you before...Get a mirror, project out of your mouth your opinions so you can actually SEE who they reflect on.

While you make Peter "your rock"...
While you make "your prayers to Mary"..
While your holy father "is a pope"...
My ROCK is higher than a man.
I will make my prayers to God.
My "Holy Father" is the Lord God Almighty.


Pss 61:
[1] Hear my cry, O God; attend unto my prayer.
[2] From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
[4] ... I will trust in the covert of thy wings ...

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

John 17:
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't run from the question.
I ignored it!

"So, you don't believe'.... is indictative of me having had made such a claim.

"IF" I had made such a claim....YOU COULD HAVE QUOTED MY WORDS...

"IF" you properly QUOTE MY WORDS, making such a claim...
"AND IF" you properly ASK ME ANYTHING, pursuant to MY QUOTED WORDS...

"THEN" I will respond to your asking, about WHAT I SAID.

"Until such time, NO, I will not respond to WHAT you declare FOR ME".



Ofcourse God IS He that IS God.
Ofcourse Gods BODY IS NOT Human.
* Illusion definition is - a misleading image presented to the vision

No, I have never said I believe anything such thing.

Scripture clearly informs the reader;
God IS not to be SEEN by the EYES of Humans.
God Prepared a Body, FOR HIS WORD, FOR WHEN HIS WORD would come into THIS WORLD.
Clearly told and shown you on more than one occasion.
His BODY was prepared IN HEAVEN, BY GOD, FOR WHEN He would come into this world.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Gods OWN WORD...TOOK UPON HIMSELF THE FORM (which IS a BODY)...OF a SERVANT (which is one who Serves Gods Purpose)...

Phil 2: (a)
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...

Phil 2: (b)
and was made in the likeness of men:

That is not an "illusion" of trickery.

That is expressly Gods Word, taking UPON Himself the bodily Form of a 'human man"...
To appear "in the Likeness" AS A HUMAN MAN...
SO a HUMAN MAN....COULD SEE HIM!

Men in Jesus' day, who SAW THE BODY He TOOK upon Himself...
DID NOT SEE His Spirit BODY,
DID NOT SEE His Spirit,
DID NOT SEE His Soul.

WHAT men DID SEE...Was a BODY God Prepared.
WHAT men DID SEE...Was A REFLECTION of God.
WHAT men TODAY are supposed to UNDERSTAND...IS GOD is the Creator, NOT the Created...(as you preach saying God IS A Human, in a Wicked TEMPTING, of TRYING to get other men to FALL FOR Wicked Temptations...
And further Wicked teaching that God Fertilized a human womans seed, to procreate a Half spirit, Half Human "unholy" thing.)

From Jesus' day and teaching forward...
God IS HOLY...too holy to be SEEN or HEARD, (as HE IS), BY HUMAN Eyes, BY HUMAN Ears.

John 5:
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

KNOWING who God IS ... IS Knowledge.
Seeing God as He is ....... IS Forbidden
Understanding WHO God IS, without SEEING, IS a Blessing.

John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Okay - I'll play your idiotic game for ONE post:
Do you believe that Jesus is God?

N dancing around the issue - just a straight answer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

YAWN...
Repeating your opinion and trying to puke your opinon on me...is a FAIL.

Go lap up your own puked out opinion unto yourself.

As I have told you before...Get a mirror, project out of your mouth your opinions so you can actually SEE who they reflect on.

While you make Peter "your rock"...
While you make "your prayers to Mary"..
While your holy father "is a pope"...
My ROCK is higher than a man.
I will make my prayers to God.
My "Holy Father" is the Lord God Almighty.

Pss 61:
[1] Hear my cry, O God; attend unto my prayer.
[2] From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
[4] ... I will trust in the covert of thy wings ...

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

John 17:
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Glory to God,
Taken

And once again - projecting instead of addressing.

Sooooo, you believe that God is an actual rock and an actual bird with wings and feathers.
Like I said - this nonsense is precisely why nobody takes you seriously . . .

 

[TheslightestID]

Your responses are just diversions from your failures to provide evidence for your claims.

Now that's original.

Lol