The Gospel is actually good news and here is why.

[CharismaticLady]

One thing I would add . . . I agree completely, forgiveness is love. I don't believe that forgiving others earns our own forgiveness, as God tells us to forgive others as we have been forgiven, so for the church, God forgiving me comes first, and we forgive others having been already forgiven ourselves.

But that being said, to walk in love towards others is to have no offense from them, that is, nothing to be forgiven, only love for them. No counting wrongs, no record of wrongs, I'm not the Lawgiver anyway! And I'm no better than anyone else. So to even have a complaint much less to hold on to it, that's not love.

I like to think in terms of just living forgiveness, not counting anything against anyone, whenever possible. But I think it is possible!

Much love!

I would read it again if I were you. Our past willful sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4 is what is taken away out of our nature. Trespasses depend on maturity of fruit. They are two different types of sins. Sins unto death, and sins not unto death. We probably disagree on that, but I can't help that.

There are two sections in Matthew 5 and 6 that teaches us the truth.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Matthew 6:
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive others their trespasses against us.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I like to think in terms of just living forgiveness, not counting anything against anyone, whenever possible. But I think it is possible!

Sometimes it is really hard to forgive, but we must.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That is also why His perfect obedience (of keeping the law) is imputed to us as a free gift...

Romans 5:19 (KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The deeper Royal Law of Love is written on our hearts, and given to us without our earning them.

 

[prism]

The deeper Royal Law of Love is written on our hearts, and given to us without our earning them.

Yet we often fail at living up to 'the deeper Royal Law of Love (even though it is written on our hearts (Rom 5:5). But what is comforting as His Children when we fail, is the knowledge that we have already been covered by His unfailing righteousness.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yet we often fail at living up to 'the deeper Royal Law of Love (even though it is written on our hearts (Rom 5:5). But what is comforting as His Children when we fail, is the knowledge that we have already been covered by His unfailing righteousness.

What you don't understand is that the blood of Jesus takes away the desire to commit willful sins of lawlessness, sins unto death. But the sins not unto death we still commit called trespasses. Love is a fruit of the Spirit, and trespasses are sins due to immaturity in the fruit of the Spirit. We are commanded to forgive others their trespasses against us, so that our own trespasses may be forgiven. Matthew 6:14-15. We can live sinless lives like Christ did. True righteousness due to the indwelling Spirit of Christ inside us, abiding in us, and we in Him. Stop thinking of it as a covering. That is outside, and the Spirit of Christ is inside. Understand?

 

[prism]

What you don't understand is that the blood of Jesus takes away the desire to commit willful sins of lawlessness, sins unto death.

Could you please share the Scripture where it says ‘the Blood of Jesus takes away the desire to sin’.
OBTW, please don’t tell me what I do and don’t understand and I will grant you the same courtesy.

Love is a fruit of the Spirit, and trespasses are sins due to immaturity in the fruit of the Spirit.

Again, Scripture please.

We are commanded to forgive others their trespasses against us, so that our own trespasses may be forgiven. Matthew 6:14-15.

Our lack of forgiving others is a sign that we have not grasped the fact that we have been forgiven or have forgotten or have never been forgiven.

We can live sinless lives like Christ did.

Show me one person who has besides Jesus.

True righteousness due to the indwelling Spirit of Christ inside us, abiding in us, and we in Him.

Your talking about sanctification…the Spirit’s working in us. Off topic.

Stop thinking of it as a covering. That is outside, and the Spirit of Christ is inside. Understand?

Quite a dictatorial spirit, what kind of ‘inner fruit’ is that?

 

[Nancy]

That’s the problem with Martin Luther and the reformation - they swung the pendulum from one side, with RCC error - way over to the completely opposite side, with Calvinism and OSAS - instead of going to the middle, where the truth exists.

Kind of like politics, the far left and the far right drown out the middle man who sees reason...extremists on both sides :O

 

[CharismaticLady]

uld you please share the Scripture where it says ‘the Blood of Jesus takes away the desire to sin’.

1 John 3:5; 1 John 3:9; Romans 6:7; 17-18; Romans 8:2

Again, Scripture please.

a progression: 2 Peter 1:5-7. See last to mature.
1 John 3:4-5; 2 Peter 1:2-4; Matthew 6:14-15

Our lack of forgiving others is a sign that we have not grasped the fact that we have been forgiven or have forgotten or have never been forgiven.

It is the Spirit of Truth who is our teacher, by convicting us through the knowledge in Scripture. We keep growing in this. He doesn't download everything on day one it seems.

Show me one person who has besides Jesus.

Hopefully you!

Romans 8:29-30

Your talking about sanctification…the Spirit’s working in us. Off topic.

Off topic? Rude! The giving of the Spirit IS the gospel. And I'm not talking about the erroneous definition of sanctification, as it is NOT a process. We are set apart as soon as we are justified. Romans 8:29-30 doesn't even mention it. The Spirit is what is so completely different from the Old Covenant.

Quite a dictatorial spirit, what kind of ‘inner fruit’ is that?

What type is Rude. Looks like pot calling the kettle...

See, there is a process, but it is not called sanctification. It is what makes us become like Christ - glorification. We both are headed towards perfection, but obviously haven't arrived yet. LOL

 

[marks]

Sometimes it is really hard to forgive, but we must.

Trust.

It's only hard for the flesh to forgive. The new creation spirit doesn't hold onto wrongs. Endures all things.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just know that maturing in the fruit of the Spirit as time goes by reduces the number of trespasses you commit. 2 Peter 1:5-7 are the steps to glorification. Notice the last one to completely mature is love, but is first in the list of fruit. It is the most important fruit of all.

I think it's more honest to clarify this for those to whom you teach sinlessness.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OBTW, please don’t tell me what I do and don’t understand and I will grant you the same courtesy.

Well put!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would read it again if I were you. Our past willful sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4 is what is taken away out of our nature. Trespasses depend on maturity of fruit. They are two different types of sins. Sins unto death, and sins not unto death. We probably disagree on that, but I can't help that.

There are two sections in Matthew 5 and 6 that teaches us the truth.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Matthew 6:
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive others their trespasses against us.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Turning the Sermon on the Mount into the New Testament Law. I don't believe that's what God intended.

In fact this rule of forgiveness is under the Law, while we as the church are to forgive - not to receive forgiveness, as if we were buying something from God, but because we have been forgiven. We are giving a gift, having received a gift.

Do you see the difference?

Ephesians 4:32 KJV
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We can live sinless lives like Christ did.

Now you are still saying this.

However . . .

1 Corinthians 4:1-6 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

God teaches us here in this passage that we are not qualified to know if we are or are not.

And all these claims of "you should be living sin-free", I've yet to meet ANYONE who lives without any sins. Some claim it. I'm not saying none do, or none can, though I believe Scripture teaches that we remain in conflict with our flesh so long as we live in these bodies as they are.

In every case, I've witnessed those who claim sinlessness show their claim false in how they treat others as they try to prove themself righteous in thought and word and deed.

Paul wasn't aware of wrongdoing in himself, but he was not about to say he didn't do wrong.

Truth is what sets us all free.

So we need to know the truth, be grounded in the truth. The fact is, living according Law (requirement) incites sin. It increases sin. Learning that we are dead to law releases us from that power.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would read it again if I were you. Our past willful sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4 is what is taken away out of our nature. Trespasses depend on maturity of fruit. They are two different types of sins. Sins unto death, and sins not unto death. We probably disagree on that, but I can't help that.

There are two sections in Matthew 5 and 6 that teaches us the truth.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Matthew 6:
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive others their trespasses against us.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If this is your desire, then you must keep every last little bit of the Law.

Matthew 5:19-20 KJV
19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Are you telling me that you keep some of the Law, but not all of it? And that the some that you keep, this will keep you righteous?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Trust.

It's only hard for the flesh to forgive. The new creation spirit doesn't hold onto wrongs. Endures all things.

Much love!

Well, I thought ignoring the hurt would be enough. It took a year, but I finally called and left word with his mother-in-law that I forgive him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think it's more honest to clarify this for those to whom you teach sinlessness.

Much love!

I do in longer posts. But what I don't get is why I even have to. Why haven't they experienced this freedom for themselves. That's what is scary about the church. It is like I was for the first 30 years before I was born again. That is not an imaginary imputed state, it is an experience of actually being filled with the Spirit of God. How many are still not born again, because we MUST be born again to be saved. That is what is missing in today's teachings.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Turning the Sermon on the Mount into the New Testament Law. I don't believe that's what God intended.

In fact this rule of forgiveness is under the Law, while we as the church are to forgive - not to receive forgiveness, as if we were buying something from God, but because we have been forgiven. We are giving a gift, having received a gift.

Do you see the difference?

Ephesians 4:32 KJV
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Much love!

I remember you said that before, but I see it as Jesus showing us the deeper commandments of the New Covenant. John 15:10.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If this is your desire, then you must keep every last little bit of the Law.

What like the Sabbath?

 

[prism]

1 John 3:5; 1 John 3:9; Romans 6:7; 17-18; Romans 8:2

Not one of those references mention either 'blood' or the word 'desire' as in 'take away the desire to sin. FAIL!

Again, Scripture please.
a progression: 2 Peter 1:5-7. See last to mature.
1 John 3:4-5; 2 Peter 1:2-4; Matthew 6:14-15

I was looking for something that supports the boldened part of this sentence...
Love is a fruit of the Spirit, and trespasses are sins due to immaturity in the fruit of the Spirit.
Of course we are to grow.

It is the Spirit of Truth who is our teacher, by convicting us through the knowledge in Scripture. We keep growing in this. He doesn't download everything on day one it seems.

Agreed.

Hopefully you!

Romans 8:29-30

Romans 8:29-30 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

That passage has nothing to do with living a sinless life now, and hopefully I don't ever claim sinlessness this side of heaven.

Off topic? Rude! The giving of the Spirit IS the gospel. And I'm not talking about the erroneous definition of sanctification, as it is NOT a process. We are set apart as soon as we are justified. Romans 8:29-30 doesn't even mention it. The Spirit is what is so completely different from the Old Covenant.

It's off topic if you go back and read the OP. Gospel simply means good news and yes, the giving of the Spirit is good news, but that is not the topic."We are set apart as soon as we are justified. TRUE Romans 8:29-30 doesn't even mention it...So why did you?

See, there is a process, but it is not called sanctification. It is what makes us become like Christ - glorification. We both are headed towards perfection, but obviously haven't arrived yet. LOL

I don't think I can keep up with you, in post #246 I am quoting you saying..."We can live sinless lives like Christ did." -sigh-

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not one of those references mention either 'blood' or the word 'desire' as in 'take away the desire to sin. FAIL!

I was looking for something that supports the boldened part of this sentence...
Love is a fruit of the Spirit, and trespasses are sins due to immaturity in the fruit of the Spirit.
Of course we are to grow.

Agreed.


Romans 8:29-30 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

That passage has nothing to do with living a sinless life now, and hopefully I don't ever claim sinlessness this side of heaven.

It's off topic if you go back and read the OP. Gospel simply means good news and yes, the giving of the Spirit is good news, but that is not the topic."We are set apart as soon as we are justified. TRUE Romans 8:29-30 doesn't even mention it...So why did you?

I don't think I can keep up with you, in post #246 I am quoting you saying..."We can live sinless lives like Christ did." -sigh-

And when Jesus takes away our sin, what does that mean?

And what's with FAIL! when you don't want to be talked down to? Isn't that hypocritical? Or do you believe the earth revolves around you.