The Gospel is actually good news and here is why.

[Curtis]

Paul's letters addressed issues within each church but the message applies to everyone.

Not when specific verses are TO THE BRETHREN, or TO THE SAINTS, etc.

Shalom .

 

[Heart2Soul]

Not when specific verses are TO THE BRETHREN, or TO THE SAINTS, etc.

Shalom .

I will just humbly agree to disagree with you. Have a nice day.

 

[prism]

Here’s who Paul wrote to at Corinth - it’s not to the unsaved, not to mention 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is clearly a warning to the BRETHREN:

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Here’s the clear and unequivocal warning TO THE BRETHREN

1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD (steal from) and that your BRETHREN.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES (such as those who DEFRAUD their brethren, verse 8) nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Explain how wresting Paul’s prophecies; could result in their destruction? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The fact is that hyper grace wrests Paul’s writings to the destruction of those who are deceived into thinking they can sin however much and as often they want, with no repentance, but then end up in hell.

And it’s the doctrine of demons, taught by teachers that those with itching ears love to hear, because it justifies living a sinful lifestyle.

What’s peters assessment of end time events to come, in 1 Peter 3?

This:
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,

And he went on to say:

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter says nothing about it being prophecy that some wrest to their own destruction- which would be nonsense - twisting doctrine about the rapture - Paul’s prophecies - would not be a salvation issue.

But living sinfully as a believer IS a salvational issue.

You said this: This is utter falsehood (unless you can quote me with the post #). It’s people like you who spew falsehoods about others that make Christian forums a laughing stock amongst seekers.

What I quoted was what hyper grace teachers teach - thus since you espouse that theology, you also must believe that a believer can sin all they want, and God doesn’t care, nor will He hold it against you.

You’re on ignore as your excuse is worse than you’re original false charge.
You can publicly apologize since you publicly accused.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Who has the false gospel of sinless perfection? The hyper grace camp, who claims your spirit is perfect and cannot sin, thus sins done by the body, don’t matter, and aren’t counted as sin, making them in effect, perfectly sinless.


If you enjoy playing the role of being “ The Accuser Of The Brethren”, at least get your Facts straight.....

Sins done by the Body *DO* count ! God”s Word declares that He will Chastise His Disobedient Children even to the point of striking them dead—- He will take them Home early — He will not damn them if they are Believers in Jesus.....they will escape Hell as the Bible says—- like a man who barely escapes a house fire......Read your Bible......

Nobody is “ in effect , perfectly Sinless”....... every sin is Counted as Sin......what you fail to see is that ALL of those Sins were Nailed to the Cross.....not “ Uncounted” as you falsely claim......They are Counted , But The more important thing is that they are Forgiven and God “ remembers them no more”

All Sins “ Count”.....ask Jesus— they were laid upon Him at the Cross .....it’s pretty much “ Christianity 101”

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ok you have no Scriptural reference for your previous claim, just logical deductions.
Yes when we are born again we have a new heart but yhe carcass of the dying old man follows us to the grave.
2 Corinthians 4:10 (NASB) always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

So you have the desire to be mean. Okay. I don't.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I take it you’ve never read Romans chapters 7 and 8, which go together.

Paul explains in Romans chapters 7 and 8, that after we have been saved there is a continuing conflict between our flesh and our Spirit - between temptation to walk in the flesh and live in sin - and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us: and the apostle Paul warns us in Romans 8, that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), result in spiritual death.

Of course I've read chapters 7 and 8, but I know what they mean. It is not your understanding. Mine is Romans 8:2 frees us from Romans 7:14-23. Are you still under the law? Read those chapters slowly, and see that 7 is about the Law (vs. 7) the Old Covenant, and 8 is about the New Covenant, the Spirit.

 

[marks]

That's fine. Both are right.

Either we are forgiven in Christ, or we are forgiven for our own forgiving of others. Either we forgive to earn forgiveness, or we just forgive, having been forgiven. I see these as contrary to each other.

All we receive, every spiritual blessing, we receive "in Christ", and not as reward for works.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you have the desire to be mean. Okay. I don't.

It sounds to me that he's simply asserting that your assertions are your own logical deductions from the Scriptures, but lack an actual Scripture that teaches these things.

If that's mean, then that's what it is, but it seems to me that we can call each other on our assertions.

And since when do we ascribe evil motives to each other??

Much love!

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 4:10 (NASB) always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

That's a good passage to keep in mind in this discussion!

That whole section there.

Much love!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No he didn't take our punishment for sin, Do the really think God the Father punished his own Son for something he didn't do?
There are four problems with your claim
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

And Rom 5:19 says nothing to support your claim.

Well there is a unknown mystery as to how much the Lord suffered spiritually. He became sin and that concept is beyond our capacity to understand.
The physical blood sacrificial death was the full
atonement/requirement. By His stripes we are healed. The punishment for man never mentioned eternal separation, just death, physical and spiritual. We are born spiritually dead, separated, but frankly when it comes time for the reprobate to be judged, They will be bodily resurrected after being in Hades, judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. Destroyed means to put an end to. There is no such thing as an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing. You can't destroy something continually forever. Paper is burned quickly, you can't keep burning it. Imagine a hot molten lake of fire 2000 degrees. How long will it take for your flesh and bones to disintegrate? The concept of eternal separation is technically incorrect if you don't exist anymore.
You aren't really separated from anything when you are nothing.
Of course this goes against the traditional view of eternal damnation. I think Luther and many other scholars had a problem with this, but His 95 Thesis was enough. I heard Calvin warned him not to go there.
The word aionios actually has variable meanings. When applied to a temporal realm it means ages, lifetimes, generations, epochs, temporal things that will pass away. When itnis applied to God, His domain or our salvation, it means eternal. Everlasting should be translated as age-lasting or age-during. We see the difference in Matt. 25:46 KJV
"And these shall go away into everlasting (age-lasting or age-during) punishment, but the righteous into life eternal." See same word, but used differently.

The fact that Christ did not pay the price of eternal damnation would support that it does'nt exist.

 

[prism]

So you have the desire to be mean. Okay. I don't.

Call it mean if you wish. I suppose the Bereans were mean as well?. -.

Acts 17:11 NKJV
[11] These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Either we are forgiven in Christ, or we are forgiven for our own forgiving of others. Either we forgive to earn forgiveness, or we just forgive, having been forgiven. I see these as contrary to each other.

All we receive, every spiritual blessing, we receive "in Christ", and not as reward for works.

Much love!

We forgive to OBEY. It is not a work. Look at 1 John 1:7 we are walking in the Spirit not the flesh.

 

[marks]

We forgive to OBEY. It is not a work. Look at 1 John 1:7 we are walking in the Spirit not the flesh.

I thought you had said that we forgive others so that God will forgive us. Isn't that right? That God won't forgive current sins unless we forgive everyone who sins against us?

I've wondered how complete you feel this needs to be? And how it impacts sins that are forgotten? I mean, I don't mean to be knit-picky, just, as a theology, it doesn't seem consistent to me.

If we are confessing and repenting as we go along so that we will receive fresh forgiveness for fresh sins, and if this is contingent upon us forgiving others their sins against us, there seems to be quite the mental burden there to keep it all in mind.

I don't see that being portrayed in the Bible. I see more that we are letting go things that are past, and reaching forward toward Christ likeness.

It seems to me that this whole contractual way of living with God day to day flies in the face of His grace, and how He tells me He intends for me to live.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

We are the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus....so this scripture refers to the unsaved....
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
— 2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)

Please visit “ Jesus Without Religion” to see the best explanation of 1Cor 6:9 that you will ever see.....

 

[CharismaticLady]

I thought you had said that we forgive others so that God will forgive us. Isn't that right?

Of course! That is what Matthew 6:14-15 says. Do you agree with that verse or not?

I've wondered how complete you feel this needs to be? And how it impacts sins that are forgotten? I mean, I don't mean to be knit-picky, just, as a theology, it doesn't seem consistent to me.

There are some trespasses against me that I don't know about, and some by spiritually immature that have just shed off me like water on a duck's back. Those are instantly forgiven. It is the ones that have affected me that I consciously need to forgive, and some of them are hard, especially when it is by a born again Christian. This is new to me as this part of the law of love has just recently become alive in me, especially the part in Matthew 5 that is really new.

I have decided the best thing to do is to just have no part in discussions against me. I don't need to defend myself, as God knows what I do is in obedience to Him. 1 Corinthians 2:15. And the quicker I can de-escalate a conversation by a mean spirit by not participating, the better. And if they don't stop, I can just put them on ignore, as they are not open. But there are others like Curtis, that is open to spiritual things, and can learn.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It seems to me that this whole contractual way of living with God day to day flies in the face of His grace, and how He tells me He intends for me to live.

No, it IS God's Grace that makes me obey Him. Grace is the power of God, not a get out of jail free card.

 

[marks]

Of course! That is what Matthew 6:14-15 says. Do you agree with that verse or not?

Do I agree with the verse? Or it's application to the redeemed? This is God's commandment given to those who were under the Law. We are not. And such an interpretations conflicts with a great many passages.

There are some trespasses against me that I don't know about, and some by spiritually immature that have just shed off me like water on a duck's back. Those are instantly forgiven. It is the ones that have affected me that I consciously need to forgive, and some of them are hard, especially when it is by a born again Christian. This is new to me as this part of the law of love has just recently become alive in me, especially the part in Matthew 5 that is really new.

Then I'm certain you realize that we are in fact works in progress, even in regards to our understanding and recognition of sin. Things which weren't an issue to me in my life last year or last month are today, as I find new areas of life to be overcome.

I think that's how we all are. I think there are sins in our lives now that aren't on our radar, but will be next year. And that sins on our radar now may not have been last year.

God's forgiveness is absolute, otherwise, we wouldn't be able to share our lives with an utterly Holy God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, it IS God's Grace that makes me obey Him. Grace is the power of God, not a get out of jail free card.

Actually that's not really what I was saying. But I do appreciate your desire to not get into discussions which don't serve to help. So I'll leave off here. You know where to find me.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do I agree with the verse? Or it's application to the redeemed? This is God's commandment given to those who were under the Law. We are not. And such an interpretations conflicts with a great many passages.

I know you believe the Sermon on the Mount was to those under the law, but I believe they were His own teachings of the deeper righteousness of the New Covenant to the open (not Pharisees). I noticed that when combating the accusations from the Pharisees, THOSE are the teachings that had to do with their perversion of the Law. But when teaching His disciples or others wanting to be his disciples, He taught His commandments. John 15:10. We've discussed this difference many times, but we still disagree.

As far as "many passages," that may be because we are forgiven of all our past unrighteousness, including willful sins of lawlessness. You may believe that includes the other type of sin, but those require obedience.

Then I'm certain you realize that we are in fact works in progress, even in regards to our understanding and recognition of sin.

Of course I do. I've spoken many times about Philippians 3:16. We are to live up to the knowledge of sin we have. Just like unforgiveness is a sin I've just become enlightened on to the degree I have been. I find the Spirit teaching me new things all the time, even at my old age. You'd think after 44 years of walking in the Spirit I'd know it all by now, but nope, not yet. I just haven't met anyone who knows more than me. LOL

marks, that is because God opened my mind in 1970, after 23 years of staunch closed minded leglism. Ask God to open yours too. It is amazing. And I am so exited when He teaches me something new, which means I'm pretty much excited very often. Become open.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Please visit “ Jesus Without Religion” to see the best explanation of 1Cor 6:9 that you will ever see.....

All I could find in my web search is a book to buy....is this what you are referring to?