Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

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theefaith

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St. Athanasius:

In his Orations Against the Arians (ca. 355), St. Athanasius clearly holds to the doctrine that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to the Three Divine Persons. In Book I of this work St. Athanasius teaches that "the Triad" is the "Creator and Fashioner" of all things (# 16). Moreover, St. Athanasius stresses that God the Father and God the Son act as one Principle in Their act of creation and in Their bestowal of life to all things. For, as he points out, God the Father and the Son are One in Nature (John 1:3; 10:30) and it is only through the Son and with the Son, Who is God's Wisdom, that the Blessed Trinity creates, fashions, and bestows life (## 15-20). St. Athanasius also maintains that each of the Divine Persons is the divine attributes (#19). In other words, since each of the Divine Persons is consubstantial with the Others, and since the Divine Nature is the foundation of all of the divine attributes, each of the Divine Persons is the divine attributes, just as each Divine Person is God. This, for example, is what the Incarnate Logos is referring to when He says, in John 16:6, "I am the Life" (#19). And, as "the Life," the Divine Logos in common with the other two Persons of the Blessed Trinity is the "Fountain" of life or the Divine Principle of life for all of creation (#19). It is interesting to note, that in this work, St. Athanasius focuses the majority of his attention on the Persons of God the Father and God the Son and on Their consubstantiality. His focus on these first two Persons on the Blessed Trinity rather than on a more even focus on all three Divine Persons seems to be due to the chief purpose of his work. Since this work of his is set forth as a refutation of the Arians, and since the Arian heresy focused on the first two Persons of the Blessed Trinity almost exclusively, it seems fitting that St. Athanasius should spend the majority of his work focusing on the Persons of God the Father and God the Son.


St. Gregory of Nyssa:

St. Gregory of Nyssa, writing after the Council of Constantinople, similarly seems to have seen this doctrine on the Blessed Trinity's ad extra acts as having at least part of its biblical foundation in Johannine Theology. To begin with, it is clear from his work, Concerning We Should Think of Saying that there are not Three Gods to Ablabius (ca. 390), that St. Gregory holds to the Catholic doctrine concerning the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity. For in it he holds:

The principle of the power of oversight and beholding in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one. It starts off from the Father as from a spring; it is effected by the Son, and by the power of the Spirit it completes its grace. No activity is divided to the hypostases, completed individually by each and set apart without being viewed together. All providence, care, and attention of all, both of things in the sensible creation and of things of the heavenly nature - and the preservation of what exists, the correction of things out of tune, the teaching of things set right - is one and not three, kept straight by the Holy Trinity. It is not severed into three, according to the number of Persons beheld in faith, so that each activity, viewed by itself, is of the Father, alone or of the Only-Begotten individually or of the Holy Spirit separately (Rusch, 157).In this text we clearly see that doctrinal position laid out by Pope St. Damasus on the commonality of the ad extra works of the Blessed Trinity to the three Divine Persons. In his statements here St. Gregory is very definitive in that he says that no activities of the Godhead are unique to any one Hypostatsis (i.e., Person) and that all acts of the Blessed Trinity in relation to the created order are one and not three.
Although St. Gregory by no means appeals to Scripture, in this work, as much as do SS. Athanasius or Augustine in their respective works cited in this essay, he does, nonetheless, appeal to Scripture in general and to St. John's Gospel in particular within the context of this quote. In fact he mentions John 5:22a as a possible objection to his position on the Constantinopolitan doctrine of the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity. John 5:22a reads: "The Father judges no one, but has given all judgement to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father." St. Gregory says that one could misinterpret this text to mean that the Son judges alone in such a way that this ad extra act is not common to the Father and the Holy Spirit also. However, St. Gregory maintains that if one observes the analogy of Faith, then one must hold that while all ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to the three Divine Persons it is nonetheless the case that it can be fitting to attribute or appropriate certain acts to specific Divine Persons. Thus, St. Gregory holds that since God the Son is the Wisdom of God the Father, and since wisdom is a chief virtue which a judge ought to have, it follows that the act of judging mankind is fittingly attributed or appropriated to God the Son even though, as an ad extra act, it is common to all three Divine Persons. Thus, St. Gregory concludes, this Johannine text, rather than undermining this Trinitarian doctrine, in fact radically supports it (Rusch, 157).


St. Augustine:

St. Augustine, like St. Gregory, wrote his work De Trinitate (from ca. 399-419) after the Council of Constantinople and in it tried to explicate and defend the Trinitarian doctrine of the Church. It is important for our purposes here to note that in De Trinitate St. Augustine cites the Gospel of St. John far more times than he does any other book of Scripture. This is in itself interesting for it reveals that this Doctor of the Church thinks that the most explicit Trinitarian themes in Scripture are to be found in St. John's Gospel.

At least several times in the De Trinitate St. Augustine explicitly says that it is of Catholic Faith that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to the three Divine Persons (e.g. I, 4, 7, 11). Moreover, he often appeals to the Gospel of St. John in order to biblically ground this Trinitarian doctrine. For example, St. Augustine explicitly appeals to John 5:19c, "whatever the Father does, the Son also does likewise," in order to demonstrate that there is no ad extra act which is only accomplished by the Father, or by the Son, or by the Holy Spirit autonomously from the other Divine Persons (I, 11). In addition to this St. Augustine also appeals to John 1:1-3 on different occasions in order to show that from the doctrine of the consubstantiality of the Divine Persons flows the doctrine of the commonality of Their ad extra acts (I, 9, 12). This insight is particularly profound since it shows that, according to the mind of St. Augustine, the whole essence of the Trinitarian doctrine of the Council of Constantinople can be derived from the Gospel of St. John.

In our brief treatment of this topic we have seen that at least some of the Church Fathers of the fourth and fifth centuries held that the Trinitarian doctrine, regarding the commonality of the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity to the three Divine Persons, is firmly rooted in the biblical soil of St. John's Gospel. Thus, we see that in the mind of the Early Church the Fourth Gospel was certainly held to be explicitly Trinitarian in its Theology and, in this way, it provided biblical support for the Trinitarian doctrines of the Early Church Councils.
 

David in NJ

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But no sign of Jesus in either verse!

Speaking a word is an attribute of a being. It is NOT a being. The words quoted above are not David in NJ; they are an attribute of David in NJ.

y
what happened to call no man father?

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
what happened to call no man father?

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 28:19
 

David in NJ

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But no sign of Jesus in either verse!

Speaking a word is an attribute of a being. It is NOT a being. The words quoted above are not David in NJ; they are an attribute of David in NJ.

Thank You Wrangler for the Highest compliment of all - the attribute of Truth dwells in me, the Holy Spirit of Jehovah declaring His Word - Amen
 

amadeus

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God knows their hearts. They are not seeking Truth. Therefore the Lord will not reveal it to them.
This is a very harsh judgment to make based on your beliefs [not knowledge but belief]. God know their hearts, but do you?

Even if you were right, why do you presume that others who do not wholeheartedly agree are not seeking Truth? Is your own vision better than that of the Apostle Paul who wrote this?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;..." I Cor 13:12

If it [your vision] is not then how are you able to render so final a judgement against other as if you knew all that is in their hearts?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
 
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keithr

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And Matt 16:18???
Matthew 16:18 says:

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.​

There is absolutely nothing in that verse to hint at a Trinity. It is Jesus saying that on this foundation, what Peter had just said, he will build his assemly (or church). It was a pun on words, for Peter ('petros') means a piece of rock, or a stone, but Jesus then used the word 'petra', which means a large rock, cliff or ledge.

Matthew 16:16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

That's the foundation rock on which Jesus bulds his church - that he is the Son of God (NOT that he is God). He is not making Peter the foundation of his church. Compare with Ephesians 2:19-22 (WEB):

19) So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
20) being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;
21) in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
22) in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.​

So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God.
 

amigo de christo

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This is a very harsh judgment to make based on your beliefs [not knowledge but belief]. God know their hearts, but do you?

Even if you were right, why do you presume that others who do not wholeheartedly agree are not seeking Truth? Is your own vision better than that of the Apostle Paul who wrote this?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;..." I Cor 13:12

If it [your vision] is not then how are you able to render so final a judgement against other as if you knew all that is in their hearts?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
Be encouraged my friend .
Let me explain something .
When GOD draws us to Him , Its TRUTH we seek and love .
Many are seeking , but not in spirit or truth .
But lamb does so in Spirit and in Truth all by the glorious grace of God .
I know , many may be seekers of what they think is truth
when IN TRUTH they are seeking something else .
When GOD flipped me around , i sure did not know what i know today ,
but my direction was AFTER THE TRUTH ALONE . And though i might not have known things
I knew when something someone said was a lie. It just would not even sit right and felt so empty to listen to .
YET , the bible was a joy to read . There is a key word i am gonna stress , Its LED .
I was not led into false doctrines and errors , I was not given a love for those things . ONLY FOR TRUTH .
And that my friend is a boast i cannot give to myself . IT WAS THE WORKING and the GRACE OF GOD .
ALL CREDIT IS DUE HIM as is ALL GLORY with all thanksgiving . Its why i often , by that same grace , plead to others
to get into fat and heavy readings in those bibles . What GOD did for me was not based upon who i was
IT was all based on MERCY . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED . When folks resist truth , there is a reason for that
Just as there was a reason that i too had a love for truth alone . WHOSE are we . That is the KEY . TO WHOM do we belong .
To another jesus or to THE JESUS . That is the key . HAVE FAITH IN CHRIST and learn those bibles well my friend and my friends .
FOR GOD will give us understanding . He will not leave a lamb ,nor lead a lamb into darkness , OUTTA DARKNESS HE brought us
and CLING TO HIM and outta darkness we shall remain . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED my friend and my friends .
 
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David in NJ

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This is a very harsh judgment to make based on your beliefs [not knowledge but belief]. God know their hearts, but do you?

Even if you were right, why do you presume that others who do not wholeheartedly agree are not seeking Truth? Is your own vision better than that of the Apostle Paul who wrote this?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;..." I Cor 13:12

If it [your vision] is not then how are you able to render so final a judgement against other as if you knew all that is in their hearts?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

I do not judge, they judge themselves "for out of the heart a man speaks." What truth are they seeking? Today, everyone wants to declare that they have the truth - but Scripture cannot lie...
Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came— and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?… John 10:35

Since God has declared His Word Truth - why fight against it? Is it not because we have (myself included) have idols that we are not willing to lay down at the feet of Jesus? Again, I include myself here.
Are they looking into the Scriptures for Truth or for argument and to deny Truth that they may 'add to and/or take away' from Scripture - thus changing it's meaning and it becomes a false god.
"Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition"....= Talmud, Vatican, Jehovah Witness doctrine, Mormonism to name a few.
Yes, the Lord alone knows the hearts and motives - but we reveal those motives by our own words - therefore by our own words we will be judged.

How can two walk together unless they agree - Amos 3:3

If, anyone wants to know the TRUTH they(we) MUST come to the Only begotten Son of God. If we, even in the least bit against scripture, separate the Lord Jesus Christ from being 'Echad' with the Father we are not proclaiming Truth. I know Jesus said "the Father is greater than I. He said that in His coming into the world as the Servant sent by His Father - therefore humbling Himself as a servant, His Father is greater and even then Jesus was still Echad (United One) with the Father. If anyone does not believe this then they do not believe John chapter 1 and John chapter 5 and John chapter 8 and Hebrews chapter 1 and Revelations and Genesis and Exodus and the Prophets - as it is written:
"Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come— In the volume of the book it is written of Me— To do Your will, O God.’ ” Hebrews 10:7

When we argue with scripture and even worse, proclaim things about it that it does not say we are in danger of judgement.

My love to all is to escape the temptation of false doctrine which leads us astray concerning the Truth.
 
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keithr

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Johannine Themes in the Early Church Councils
by David Arias
Why have you cluttered up this thread with all that non-Biblical nonsense about an imaginary Trinity? It adds nothing to the discussion about Matthew 28:19 being a corrupted verse, corrupted by someone who believed in the Trinity and was trying to add something to the Scriptures to support his erroneous ideas - much to his shame.
 

amigo de christo

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Why have you cluttered up this thread with all that non-Biblical nonsense about an imaginary Trinity? It adds nothing to the discussion about Matthew 28:19 being a corrupted verse, corrupted by someone who believed in the Trinity and was trying to add something to the Scriptures to support his erroneous ideas - much to his shame.
IT dont matter what the subject is , thee faith is a soldier of the R double C . Thus He will only , and i do mean only , POINT TO THE RCC .
Like i often have said , in times past , what folks love , what they embrace , what they hold and what they cling too
THEY WILL ALWAYS POINT TOO .
As for me and the lambs , ITS THE BIBLICAL CHRIST i am gonna point too . Which means
Love every word in that bible .
 
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David in NJ

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Matthew 16:18 says:

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.​

There is absolutely nothing in that verse to hint at a Trinity. It is Jesus saying that on this foundation, what Peter had just said, he will build his assemly (or church). It was a pun on words, for Peter ('petros') means a piece of rock, or a stone, but Jesus then used the word 'petra', which means a large rock, cliff or ledge.

Matthew 16:16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

That's the foundation rock on which Jesus bulds his church - that he is the Son of God (NOT that he is God). He is not making Peter the foundation of his church. Compare with Ephesians 2:19-22 (WEB):

19) So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
20) being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;
21) in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
22) in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.​

So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God.

"So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God."

This statement is a CLEAR example of error and what the Holy Spirit wants us to avoid.

Jesus is not just a part of the Tempe of God - He IS the Temple of God.

On account of this, the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?” Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” “This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?” But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body. After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. John 2: 19-22

I saw no temple in it (New Jerusalem from Above), for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Jesus equal with the Father as they BOTH are the Temple - Revelations 21: 22-23

Your decision, fight it or run into the Light of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="Wrangler, Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
 

amadeus

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I do not judge, they judge themselves "for out of the heart a man speaks." What truth are they seeking? Today, everyone wants to declare that they have the truth - but Scripture cannot lie...
Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came— and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?… John 10:35

Since God has declared His Word Truth - why fight against it? Is it not because we have (myself included) have idols that we are not willing to lay down at the feet of Jesus? Again, I include myself here.
Are they looking into the Scriptures for Truth or for argument and to deny Truth that they may 'add to and/or take away' from Scripture - thus changing it's meaning and it becomes a false god.
"Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition"....= Talmud, Vatican, Jehovah Witness doctrine, Mormonism to name a few.
Yes, the Lord alone knows the hearts and motives - but we reveal those motives by our own words - therefore by our own words we will be judged.

How can two walk together unless they agree - Amos 3:3

If, anyone wants to know the TRUTH they(we) MUST come to the Only begotten Son of God. If we, even in the least bit against scripture, separate the Lord Jesus Christ from being 'Echad' with the Father we are not proclaiming Truth. I know Jesus said "the Father is greater than I. He said that in His coming into the world as the Servant sent by His Father - therefore humbling Himself as a servant, His Father is greater and even then Jesus was still Echad (United One) with the Father. If anyone does not believe this then they do not believe John chapter 1 and John chapter 5 and John chapter 8 and Hebrews chapter 1 and Revelations and Genesis and Exodus and the Prophets - as it is written:
"Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come— In the volume of the book it is written of Me— To do Your will, O God.’ ” Hebrews 10:7

When we argue with scripture and even worse, proclaim things about it that it does not say we are in danger of judgement.

My love to all is to escape the temptation of false doctrine which leads us astray concerning the Truth.
Lots of good words there, but have you never met some very good Bible students in some of those other denominations or even among people who embrace no particular denomination? Have you never met people with limited specific Bible knowledge because they are below average intelligence or even are illiterate who nonetheless love God and it can be seen in their lives? I have!

Then again is your knowledge of the scriptures and your understanding of God's message to every man flawless? Are you able to stand in the place of God with regard to every supposed believer who disagrees with you on any point?

What is Truth? Jesus said the He is the Truth, but how well do any of us know Him? Do any of us already have a "face to face" vision? What part of our vision is still as through a glass darkly?

Try to walk one step at the time rather than presuming can see tomorrow today. Do not insist that all that you have is all that there is. Do not insist that all that you have from the scripture is Absolute Truth [AT]. Some people who are a different part of the Body of Christ are at different places on the highway of holiness than you probably love God as much as you do. Can you correctly judge the difference? Should you?

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2
 

theefaith

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y


And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.


And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 28:19

that’s no answer!
 

theefaith

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Matthew 16:18 says:

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.​

There is absolutely nothing in that verse to hint at a Trinity. It is Jesus saying that on this foundation, what Peter had just said, he will build his assemly (or church). It was a pun on words, for Peter ('petros') means a piece of rock, or a stone, but Jesus then used the word 'petra', which means a large rock, cliff or ledge.

Matthew 16:16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

That's the foundation rock on which Jesus bulds his church - that he is the Son of God (NOT that he is God). He is not making Peter the foundation of his church. Compare with Ephesians 2:19-22 (WEB):

19) So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
20) being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;
21) in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
22) in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.​

So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God.

Matt 16:18-19
Sorry also 19
What the apostles bind on earth is bound in heaven
The apostles bind and define the doctrine of the trinity, and have taught it for 2000 yrs
 

David in NJ

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Lots of good words there, but have you never met some very good Bible students in some of those other denominations or even among people who embrace no particular denomination? Have you never met people with limited specific Bible knowledge because they are below average intelligence or even are illiterate who nonetheless love God and it can be seen in their lives? I have!

Then again is your knowledge of the scriptures and your understanding of God's message to every man flawless? Are you able to stand in the place of God with regard to every supposed believer who disagrees with you on any point?

What is Truth? Jesus said the He is the Truth, but how well do any of us know Him? Do any of us already have a "face to face" vision? What part of our vision is still as through a glass darkly?

Try to walk one step at the time rather than presuming can see tomorrow today. Do not insist that all that you have is all that there is. Do not insist that all that you have from the scripture is Absolute Truth [AT]. Some people who are a different part of the Body of Christ are at different places on the highway of holiness than you probably love God as much as you do. Can you correctly judge the difference? Should you?

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2

You who say these things about me and then try to say, I am being harsh - WOW = You must be aquainted with Job's 3 friends.

YES, I have and do meet fellow believers all the time - Their walk is with God - not me. The love of God delights in fellowship and our fellowship is in the Son and His Truth. When God's Children(myself here) are seeking Truth they are open to Truth - not closed, not resisting and nor refusing to study the scriptures like the Bereans of Acts. Most Christians are locked into whatever their church/pastor/religion tells them and that is there foundation and they rely on that MIXED with scripture.
God, everyday is calling us to come out of Babylon - Scripture mixed with carnal man's logic/understanding.

Peace
 
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theefaith

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Why have you cluttered up this thread with all that non-Biblical nonsense about an imaginary Trinity? It adds nothing to the discussion about Matthew 28:19 being a corrupted verse, corrupted by someone who believed in the Trinity and was trying to add something to the Scriptures to support his erroneous ideas - much to his shame.
Acts 2:42 we believe not the Bible alone but the doctrine of the apostles
The writing of the saints ain’t clutter
 

David in NJ

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Lots of good words there, but have you never met some very good Bible students in some of those other denominations or even among people who embrace no particular denomination? Have you never met people with limited specific Bible knowledge because they are below average intelligence or even are illiterate who nonetheless love God and it can be seen in their lives? I have!

Then again is your knowledge of the scriptures and your understanding of God's message to every man flawless? Are you able to stand in the place of God with regard to every supposed believer who disagrees with you on any point?

What is Truth? Jesus said the He is the Truth, but how well do any of us know Him? Do any of us already have a "face to face" vision? What part of our vision is still as through a glass darkly?

Try to walk one step at the time rather than presuming can see tomorrow today. Do not insist that all that you have is all that there is. Do not insist that all that you have from the scripture is Absolute Truth [AT]. Some people who are a different part of the Body of Christ are at different places on the highway of holiness than you probably love God as much as you do. Can you correctly judge the difference? Should you?

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

And so, prove this quote against me - You cannot, for eveything I have said has NOT been about myself and my measure. The measurement is the Word of God, which I point everyone to - Religion on the other hand points to themselves - which one are you from?

Do you want to be like Job's 3 friends???

I accept rebuke/correction when warranted -
Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.… Proverbs 9:8-10

I love and accept instruction by others who know and love the Lord = when they are speaking to me from a pure heart....

Job's 3 friends BELIEVED they were saying the truth to Job about God - they were wrong.
 

amigo de christo

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Acts 2:42 we believe not the Bible alone but the doctrine of the apostles
The writing of the saints ain’t clutter
The doctrine of the apostles . I hope you dont mean the RCC apostels .
Cause they have for days , weeks , months , years , decades , centuries and over a milienia have contradicted the apostels in that bible .
 
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theefaith

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From a non-catholic source

PROPOSITION #1: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all DISTINCT PERSONS
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Modalism. Modalism (sometimes called “Sabellianism” after Sabellius in the 3rd century AD) teaches that God merely appears as distinct persons. Instead of a Trinitarian view of God, modalism is a Unitarian view. It holds that there is one God and one person in the Godhead. Modalists often give the illustration of a man, who plays three different roles in his life. For instance, he might appear in church as an elder, in court as a lawyer, and at home as a father. But he is still the same man in all three roles. Modalists hold that God appeared as the Son on Earth, but he is the same person as the Father in heaven. Modern groups such as the United Pentecostals are modalistic, denying the Trinity.[3]

However, when we survey the Bible, we see that God is not play-acting as three distinct persons; instead, he is made up of three distinct persons. For instance, Jesus prayed directly to the Father as a separate being (Mt. 11:27; 26:39; Jn. 14:16-17). We can hardly make sense of the “high priestly prayer” unless the Father and Son are separate persons (Jn. 17). Elsewhere, Jesus spoke of the Father and the Holy Spirit as distinct from himself (Lk. 11:13; Jn. 14:26; 15:26). Jesus told us to baptize new believers “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Mt. 28:19). Paul spoke of all three persons of the Trinity, when he wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14). Likewise, Peter spoke of believers being chosen by “God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood” (1 Pet. 1:2). 14:26). At Jesus’ baptism, we read, “[Jesus] saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: ‘You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased’” (Mk. 1:10-11).[4]

While the three persons are distinct and separate centers of consciousness, they also agree with one another in their decisions and actions. We see this in the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:1-2; Jn. 1:1-3), Jesus’ resurrection (Gal. 1:1; Acts 2:24, 32; Rom. 1:4; Jn. 2:19; 10:18), and the indwelling of believers (Jn. 14:16, 18, 23; Rom. 8:9).

PROPOSITION #2: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all FULLY GOD
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Arianism. Arianism (named after Arius from the 4th century AD) taught that Jesus was not God—only a created being. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals are all examples of modern Arianism. All three groups hold that Jesus was not fully God, and thus, they would be Arian in their theology. However, by contrast, the Bible teaches that all three members of the Trinity are fully God.

First, the Father is FULLY GOD. Psalm 89:26 states, “You are my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.” Isaiah 63:16 states, “You, O LORD, are our Father.” Sometimes God is called the Father, but other times, the Father is simply called “God.” For instance, Paul writes, “God sent forth His Son.” We will not survey any more verses to justify the fact that the Father is fully God, because most groups (even Christian cults) would agree on this point.

Second, the Holy Spirit is FULLY GOD.Peter says, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? …You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3-4). Here Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit with lying to God himself. John writes of those who are “born of God” (1 Jn. 3:9), but elsewhere, he says we need to be born “of the Holy Spirit” (Jn. 3:5). Moreover, the Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14; Jn. 14:16), omnipresent (Ps. 139:7-8), omniscient (1 Cor. 2:10-11), and he is lumped together with other known persons in the Godhead (1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2; Mt. 28:19).

Third, the Son is FULLY GOD. Paul tells us that Jesus “existed in the form of God” (Phil. 2:6), and “in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” (Col. 2:9). John writes, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (Jn. 1:1). It is the person of Christ that different cult groups and Unitarians (i.e. one person monotheisms) deny as fully distinct or fully God. For a full treatment of the deity of Christ, see our earlier article “Defending the Deity of Christ.”

PROPOSITION #3: There is only ONE GOD
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Tritheism—the belief in three gods. Wayne Grudem writes, “Few persons have held this view in the history of the church.”[5] But if we affirm propositions one and two, it could lead to a belief in three gods, which would be polytheism.

Of course, the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God. Isaiah 45:6 states, “There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other” (cf. Isa. 44:6-8; 45:21-22; 1 Kings 8:60; Deut. 4:39; Ps. 96:5). Jesus wanted his followers to the “only true God” (Jn. 17:3). Likewise, Paul writes, “There is one God” (1 Tim. 2:5), “God… is one” (Rom. 3:30), and “There is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him” (1 Cor. 8:6). Likewise, James writes, “You believe that God is one. You do well” (Jas. 2:19).

Conclusion
If all three of these propositions are true, it would follow logically and necessarily that the Trinity is true. In defining the doctrine of the Trinity, it is imperative to use careful definitions. This Christian doctrine is essential to our faith, but it is often misunderstood or improperly communicated.
 
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theefaith

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The doctrine of the apostles . I hope you dont mean the RCC apostels .
Cause they have for days , weeks , months , years , decades , centuries and over a milienia have contradicted the apostels in that bible .
They are all catholic apostles and there is no contradiction