Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

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David in NJ

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From a non-catholic source

PROPOSITION #1: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all DISTINCT PERSONS
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Modalism. Modalism (sometimes called “Sabellianism” after Sabellius in the 3rd century AD) teaches that God merely appears as distinct persons. Instead of a Trinitarian view of God, modalism is a Unitarian view. It holds that there is one God and one person in the Godhead. Modalists often give the illustration of a man, who plays three different roles in his life. For instance, he might appear in church as an elder, in court as a lawyer, and at home as a father. But he is still the same man in all three roles. Modalists hold that God appeared as the Son on Earth, but he is the same person as the Father in heaven. Modern groups such as the United Pentecostals are modalistic, denying the Trinity.[3]

However, when we survey the Bible, we see that God is not play-acting as three distinct persons; instead, he is made up of three distinct persons. For instance, Jesus prayed directly to the Father as a separate being (Mt. 11:27; 26:39; Jn. 14:16-17). We can hardly make sense of the “high priestly prayer” unless the Father and Son are separate persons (Jn. 17). Elsewhere, Jesus spoke of the Father and the Holy Spirit as distinct from himself (Lk. 11:13; Jn. 14:26; 15:26). Jesus told us to baptize new believers “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Mt. 28:19). Paul spoke of all three persons of the Trinity, when he wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14). Likewise, Peter spoke of believers being chosen by “God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood” (1 Pet. 1:2). 14:26). At Jesus’ baptism, we read, “[Jesus] saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: ‘You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased’” (Mk. 1:10-11).[4]

While the three persons are distinct and separate centers of consciousness, they also agree with one another in their decisions and actions. We see this in the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:1-2; Jn. 1:1-3), Jesus’ resurrection (Gal. 1:1; Acts 2:24, 32; Rom. 1:4; Jn. 2:19; 10:18), and the indwelling of believers (Jn. 14:16, 18, 23; Rom. 8:9).

PROPOSITION #2: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all FULLY GOD
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Arianism. Arianism (named after Arius from the 4th century AD) taught that Jesus was not God—only a created being. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals are all examples of modern Arianism. All three groups hold that Jesus was not fully God, and thus, they would be Arian in their theology. However, by contrast, the Bible teaches that all three members of the Trinity are fully God.

First, the Father is FULLY GOD. Psalm 89:26 states, “You are my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.” Isaiah 63:16 states, “You, O LORD, are our Father.” Sometimes God is called the Father, but other times, the Father is simply called “God.” For instance, Paul writes, “God sent forth His Son.” We will not survey any more verses to justify the fact that the Father is fully God, because most groups (even Christian cults) would agree on this point.

Second, the Holy Spirit is FULLY GOD.Peter says, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? …You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3-4). Here Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit with lying to God himself. John writes of those who are “born of God” (1 Jn. 3:9), but elsewhere, he says we need to be born “of the Holy Spirit” (Jn. 3:5). Moreover, the Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14; Jn. 14:16), omnipresent (Ps. 139:7-8), omniscient (1 Cor. 2:10-11), and he is lumped together with other known persons in the Godhead (1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2; Mt. 28:19).

Third, the Son is FULLY GOD. Paul tells us that Jesus “existed in the form of God” (Phil. 2:6), and “in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” (Col. 2:9). John writes, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (Jn. 1:1). It is the person of Christ that different cult groups and Unitarians (i.e. one person monotheisms) deny as fully distinct or fully God. For a full treatment of the deity of Christ, see our earlier article “Defending the Deity of Christ.”

PROPOSITION #3: There is only ONE GOD
If we deny this biblical teaching, we fall prey to Tritheism—the belief in three gods. Wayne Grudem writes, “Few persons have held this view in the history of the church.”[5] But if we affirm propositions one and two, it could lead to a belief in three gods, which would be polytheism.

Of course, the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God. Isaiah 45:6 states, “There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other” (cf. Isa. 44:6-8; 45:21-22; 1 Kings 8:60; Deut. 4:39; Ps. 96:5). Jesus wanted his followers to the “only true God” (Jn. 17:3). Likewise, Paul writes, “There is one God” (1 Tim. 2:5), “God… is one” (Rom. 3:30), and “There is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him” (1 Cor. 8:6). Likewise, James writes, “You believe that God is one. You do well” (Jas. 2:19).

Conclusion
If all three of these propositions are true, it would follow logically and necessarily that the Trinity is true. In defining the doctrine of the Trinity, it is imperative to use careful definitions. This Christian doctrine is essential to our faith, but it is often misunderstood or improperly communicated.

EXCELLENT - Thank you for spending the time to write about these differing viewpoints
 
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amigo de christo

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They are all catholic apostles and there is no contradiction
There is no contradiction to YOU , cause you love what they teach .
But when the LOVE that comes from GOD is shed upon the heart , TRUTH ALONE SHALL YOU LOVE .
You shall WED HER and SHE shall keep you safe . safe from the doctrines of men gone wrong , from the crown takers .
TRUTH is a diamond of no compare , as honey to the taste of a lamb , as meat for his soul .
All else , no matter if it has part truth , most truth , yet any lie , A lamb wont feed from that pasture .
A lamb feeds from the one he heeds . JESUS . THE RISEN GLORIOUS SAVOIR .
And a strangers voice they will not heed .
 

amadeus

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You who say these things about me and then try to say, I am being harsh - WOW = You must be aquainted with Job's 3 friends.
Did I say something wrong about you? I mostly asked questions and quoted verses of scripture. If I improperly directed something against you personally in error, I do apologize. Otherwise let God be the judge.

YES, I have and do meet fellow believers all the time - Their walk is with God - not me. The love of God delights in fellowship and our fellowship is in the Son and His Truth. When God's Children(myself here) are seeking Truth they are open to Truth - not closed, not resisting and nor refusing to study the scriptures like the Bereans of Acts. Most Christians are locked into whatever their church/pastor/religion tells them and that is there foundation and they rely on that MIXED with scripture.
I am glad you meet with fellow believers all the time. My last offline believing friend died last year just before the first lockdowns were put into place in this country. Many bearing the label of Christian may be locked in the ways of their own group/church/pastor, but when we do not know a person, should we presume that they are so locked in simply because they disagree on some point of doctrine? Believe and follow as the Lord leads you but be slow to presume that others call others not exactly where you are, are not also seeking the Lord's face. This was my point.
God, everyday is calling us to come out of Babylon - Scripture mixed with carnal man's logic/understanding.

Peace
Where then is Babylon? Is that not the place of confusion, in which some who may have actually believed in God now find themselves? Does a person come out of that place by following you or me... or by following the Holy Spirit of God? Is there any part of Babylon still in us?
 
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David in NJ

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Did I say something wrong about you? I mostly asked questions and quoted verses of scripture. If I improperly directed something against you personally in error, I do apologize. Otherwise let God be the judge.


I am glad you meet with fellow believers all the time. My last offline believing friend died last year just before the first lockdowns were put into place in this country. Many bearing the label of Christian may be locked in the ways of their own group/church/pastor, but when we do not know a person, should we presume that they are so locked in simply because they disagree on some point of doctrine? Believe and follow as the Lord leads you but be slow to presume that others call others not exactly where you are, are not also seeking the Lord's face. This was my point.

Where then is Babylon? Is that not the place of confusion, in which some who may have actually believed in God now find themselves? Does a person come out of that place by following you or me... or by following the Holy Spirit of God? Is there any part of Babylon still in us?

YES, there is a part of Babylon in all of us. That is why Christ calls us ONLY unto Himself = the Word of God = Who was, and IS, and IS to Come = Jesus.
Never did I ever say, follow me or else.
I only point to Scripture where it agrees with Itself from Genesis to Revelations = This alone is Truth.
Mixing up scritpures to support false teachings is a form of idolatry = Babylon.

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
Revelations 18:4-5

I have to go now, taking my son fishing. Peace to all who call upon God from a pure heart - Amen
 

amadeus

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"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

And so, prove this quote against me - You cannot, for eveything I have said has NOT been about myself and my measure. The measurement is the Word of God, which I point everyone to - Religion on the other hand points to themselves - which one are you from?
I am not trying to prove anything against you. How could I who am also a frail fallible man do that?
Tomorrow is also outside my range of vision!

Most of my life I have belonged to this church group or that one beginning with the Catholics at the age of 6 years. I left Catholicism in 1961 when I graduated from high school. I left my last non-Catholic church in late 2018. Now with the Covid 19 restrictions and my wife's lack of an immune system it seems unlikely that I will ever belong to another other than The Church [the Body of Christ] with Jesus as it Head which is not organized by any man.

Each morning I simply drop down to the lowest room with the Lord and surrender to Him so that if it be His will, He will elevate me to a place He determines is right at the moment. Give God the glory!

Do you want to be like Job's 3 friends???
Have you really seen me acting like them on this forum? You are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.

I accept rebuke/correction when warranted -
Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.… Proverbs 9:8-10

I love and accept instruction by others who know and love the Lord = when they are speaking to me from a pure heart....
Very good! I am glad to see the words from proverbs. Remember also the following words penned by Solomon. It explains to me why I do not respond at all to many posts on this forum even though I may disagree with them.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7

Job's 3 friends BELIEVED they were saying the truth to Job about God - they were wrong.
No I believe rather that they wanted to believe they were saying the truth about Job, but in actuality they did not know what to believe but they went ahead and opened their mouths when they probably should have remained silent! Like Job himself later on...

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

And then there was one wiser than Job who although completely innocent remained silent before his accusers:

"Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14

Alone I can lead no one the right way so when God does not direct me what can I do but remain silent?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
 
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amigo de christo

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I am not trying to prove anything against you. How could I who am also a frail fallible man do that?
Tomorrow is also outside my range of vision!

Most of my life I have belonged to this church group or that one beginning with the Catholics at the age of 6 years. I left Catholicism in 1961 when I graduated from high school. I left my last non-Catholic church in let 2018. Now with the Covid 19 restrictions and my wife's lack of an immune system it seems unlikely that I will ever belong to another other than The Church [the Body of Christ] with Jesus as it Head which is not organized by any man.

Each morning I simply drop down to the lowest room with the Lord and surrender to Him so that if it be His will, He will elevate me to a place He determines is right at the moment. Give God the glory!


Have you really seen me acting like them on this forum? You are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.


Very good! I am glad to see the words from proverbs. Remember also the following words penned by Solomon. It explains to me why I do not respond at all to many posts on this forum even though I may disagree with them.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7


No I believe rather that they wanted to believe they were saying the truth about Job, but in actuality they did not know what to believe but they went ahead and opened their mouths when they probably should have remained silent! Like Job himself later on...

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

And then there was one wiser than Job who although completely innocent remained silent before his accusers:

"Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14

Alone I can lead no one the right way so when God does not direct me what can I do but remain silent?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
Jobs friends could not give job the solution . But GOD sent a man and HE showed job where his error was .
And then GOD revealed to JOB his error .
No wonder job said , i am vile , what can i say to you . What can we say to GOD that can justify us . ONLY JESUS CAN .
LET THE KING BE PRAISED . IF GOD appeared to any of us , our flesh would melt away . WHO can stand in the presence
of one such as GOD . THANK GOD FOR MERCY , THANK GOD FOR CHRIST . CHRIST WHO IS OUR MEDIATOR , OUR INTERCESSOR .
This world , the nations , tribes tongues and peoples could never save themselves . GOD WAS GONNA HAVE TO DO IT .
AND HE DID . HE SENT JESUS . SO that all who believe would be saved . BUT since we on that note
allow me some non all inclusive words , BUT HE WHO DONT WILL BE DAMNED .
 

amadeus

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YES, there is a part of Babylon in all of us. That is why Christ calls us ONLY unto Himself = the Word of God = Who was, and IS, and IS to Come = Jesus.
Never did I ever say, follow me or else.
I only point to Scripture where it agrees with Itself from Genesis to Revelations = This alone is Truth.
Mixing up scritpures to support false teachings is a form of idolatry = Babylon.

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
Revelations 18:4-5

I have to go now, taking my son fishing. Peace to all who call upon God from a pure heart - Amen
Give God the glory my friend!
 
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David in NJ

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I am not trying to prove anything against you. How could I who am also a frail fallible man do that?
Tomorrow is also outside my range of vision!

Most of my life I have belonged to this church group or that one beginning with the Catholics at the age of 6 years. I left Catholicism in 1961 when I graduated from high school. I left my last non-Catholic church in let 2018. Now with the Covid 19 restrictions and my wife's lack of an immune system it seems unlikely that I will ever belong to another other than The Church [the Body of Christ] with Jesus as it Head which is not organized by any man.

Each morning I simply drop down to the lowest room with the Lord and surrender to Him so that if it be His will, He will elevate me to a place He determines is right at the moment. Give God the glory!


Have you really seen me acting like them on this forum? You are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.


Very good! I am glad to see the words from proverbs. Remember also the following words penned by Solomon. It explains to me why I do not respond at all to many posts on this forum even though I may disagree with them.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7


No I believe rather that they wanted to believe they were saying the truth about Job, but in actuality they did not know what to believe but they went ahead and opened their mouths when they probably should have remained silent! Like Job himself later on...

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

And then there was one wiser than Job who although completely innocent remained silent before his accusers:

"Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14

Alone I can lead no one the right way so when God does not direct me what can I do but remain silent?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

You said - You(me) are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.

I cannot see in their heart and never claimed to do so - those who argue against scripture are the ones not seeking truth = by their own words, NOT mine.

Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.… 2 Peter 3:15-17

Notice the comparison Peter gives here - "Lord's patience brings salvation" as compared to = "people distort as they do the rest of Scriptures, to their own destruction."

My love to everyone is to share the Scriptures in light of doctrines so that what is false teachings can be exposed. For benefit for those who are seeking truth.

EXAMPLE: A Jehovah Witness claims they believe in one(singular) God and they only worship the Father, but they believe Jesus is Deity. This cannot be Truth. In fact, acording to their belief they are in idolatry by claiming Jesus is Deity - The scriptures cannot lie: "God said, I alone am God, there are no other gods beside Me." Therefore Jesus cannot be Deity unless He is ONE( echad = plurality = a united One). How else can the Scripture say "Let US make man in Our Image" and again "In the beginning was God" and again "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" and "the Word became flesh". Therefore God became a man = "I will send forth My Son" who was the Word(God) in the flesh. This is God's commandment to us, today and forever = Exodus 3:14-16 and John chapters 1, 5 and 8 as well as many other scriptures throughout the Bible.

God the Father and the Lamb are echad = One = Together THEY are the TEMPLE for us to dwell in by the Holy Spirit = "But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light." Revelations chapter 21
 

Ronald Nolette

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This shows how completely void of Scriptural support the doctrine of the trinity is as John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it.

On top of that John 20:31 informs us that Johns entire Gospel was NOT written to claim God incarnated but that Jesus was the Messiah, the SON of God.


Who is the Word in your opinion then? You keep screaming this but you refuse ot say what or who the Word is in John 1:1 and then who it is when this word becomes flesh!

Teh fact that Jesus wasn't given the name Jesus until HIs birth is inconsequnetial. It is just simply to identofy who the Word is. But before He became flesh He existed as God! as JJOhn 1:1 says and Philippians 2 shows as well as revelation 1 and Is. 44.
 
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David in NJ

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Who is the Word in your opinion then? You keep screaming this but you refuse ot say what or who the Word is in John 1:1 and then who it is when this word becomes flesh!

Teh fact that Jesus wasn't given the name Jesus until HIs birth is inconsequnetial. It is just simply to identofy who the Word is. But before He became flesh He existed as God! as JJOhn 1:1 says and Philippians 2 shows as well as revelation 1 and Is. 44.
AWESOME
 

Ronald Nolette

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Well Peter tells us (2 Peter 1:4, WEB):

by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.​

and likewise John confirms it in 1 John 3:2 (WEB):

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

So according to your reasoning, after we are resurrected by God we will also become God, and God will no longer be a mere Trinity. Unless, of course, your understanding of the Scriptures is incorrect on that point. :oops: Writing something a myriad of times doesn't mean that it must be true!

Nope! go back and study what partakers mean and what we will be like HIm means. It doesn't mean we become divine like the Trinity.

Take i t in the immediate context and then in the general con text of who we are and hwo we are transformed for eternity! Then get back to me.

When one takes a verse and try to make it to stand alone to prove a point- they fall flat on their face.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Correct, God did not inspire trinity - He is ECHAD a United One Father Son Holy Spirit just as HE said which you and others fight against in your minds, rejecting what is written = the Holy Scriptures.

And you will fight against me because I believe the Truth which God has declared and not man.

Anyone who loves God loves His Word and delights themselves in it. They will also love those who love God. I have shared my love to everyone here with what the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit have themselves declared to be Truth. Pride and religion will always fight against God's Word. Saying you do not see something in the Scriptures does not mean it is not there, especially when clear instruction is given (Exodus 3:14-16). The process to knowing Truth does not come from you or me. It originates from God and in order for us to receive, we must submit unto God. Laying at the feet of Jesus everything we have been previously taught.

For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist,” Says the LORD. “But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word." Isaiah 66:2

2 Timothy 3:16,17 says:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now those who believe in the Trinity basically are saying: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God. They also say that all three persons(Father, Son,Holy Spirit)are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.
No one can find in the scriptures that what trinitarians are saying about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that they all are coequal, coeternal, and that all three are uncreated, and omnipotent, is true. In fact the scriptures show that the Only Begotten Son of God is subject to his Father and God always. The scriptures show that there were some things that the Only-Begotten Son didn't know and that the Holy Spirit is greater than the Only Begotten Son of God because you can blasphemy against Jesus Christ and be forgiven, but if you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit you can't be forgiven. There's too much in the scriptures that show that the True God being a Trinity of persons in a Godhead isn't true.
 

Ronald Nolette

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2 Timothy 3:16,17 says:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now those who believe in the Trinity basically are saying: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God. They also say that all three persons(Father, Son,Holy Spirit)are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.
No one can find in the scriptures that what trinitarians are saying about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that they all are coequal, coeternal, and that all three are uncreated, and omnipotent, is true. In fact the scriptures show that the Only Begotten Son of God is subject to his Father and God always. The scriptures show that there were some things that the Only-Begotten Son didn't know and that the Holy Spirit is greater than the Only Begotten Son of God because you can blasphemy against Jesus Christ and be forgiven, but if you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit you can't be forgiven. There's too much in the scriptures that show that the True God being a Trinity of persons in a Godhead isn't true.

Yes we can, as long as you don't use an uncorrupted translation like the New World Miostranslation!
 
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amadeus

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You said - You(me) are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.

I cannot see in their heart and never claimed to do so - those who argue against scripture are the ones not seeking truth = by their own words, NOT mine.

Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.… 2 Peter 3:15-17

Notice the comparison Peter gives here - "Lord's patience brings salvation" as compared to = "people distort as they do the rest of Scriptures, to their own destruction."

My love to everyone is to share the Scriptures in light of doctrines so that what is false teachings can be exposed. For benefit for those who are seeking truth.

EXAMPLE: A Jehovah Witness claims they believe in one(singular) God and they only worship the Father, but they believe Jesus is Deity. This cannot be Truth. In fact, acording to their belief they are in idolatry by claiming Jesus is Deity - The scriptures cannot lie: "God said, I alone am God, there are no other gods beside Me." Therefore Jesus cannot be Deity unless He is ONE( echad = plurality = a united One). How else can the Scripture say "Let US make man in Our Image" and again "In the beginning was God" and again "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" and "the Word became flesh". Therefore God became a man = "I will send forth My Son" who was the Word(God) in the flesh. This is God's commandment to us, today and forever = Exodus 3:14-16 and John chapters 1, 5 and 8 as well as many other scriptures throughout the Bible.

God the Father and the Lamb are echad = One = Together THEY are the TEMPLE for us to dwell in by the Holy Spirit = "But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light." Revelations chapter 21
I will not go through all that you have written here. Briefly let me say that growing up as a devout Catholic I took the Trinity for granted because that is what they believed. I went out of formal Catholicism in 1961 when I moved to San Jose, CA. When God drew me back to Him in 1976 it was through a black family that lived for God in ways I have rarely seen anywhere else. Their living testimony won me and my wife to God. I had never heard of Oneness Jesus Only people but that is what they were. For 11 years we attended three different denominations with that basic similar belief [first was black, 2nd was Hispanic 3rd was white with only minor doctrinal differences].

From 1987 we were gone from them but not from God. What I essentially believe now is really neither Oneness nor Trinitarian. Discussions on Christian Internet forums for more than 20 years have allowed me hear the arguments of people on each side according to scripture. I believe the scriptures, but according to them so do many people who sharply disagree with each other and as I see it abuse each other in their interactions on the forums. If I needed to choose which one was right according to the attitudes most often shown by many here, I would have to choose "none of them".
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Yes we can, as long as you don't use an uncorrupted translation like the New World Miostranslation!

I don't really care what you have to say about the NWT of the scriptures. All people like you are dictators trying to dictate what version of the scriptures someone should use.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I don't really care what you have to say about the NWT of the scriptures. All people like you are dictators trying to dictate what version of the scriptures someone should use.


Wrong again! I try to show people which versions of the Bible they should no t use because they are proven corruptions and intentional retranslatiions!

There are dozens of bibles I can recommend to people, but will not dictate which one they should use.

Lying about me is unbecoming of you.
 

David in NJ

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2 Timothy 3:16,17 says:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now those who believe in the Trinity basically are saying: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God. They also say that all three persons(Father, Son,Holy Spirit)are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.
No one can find in the scriptures that what trinitarians are saying about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that they all are coequal, coeternal, and that all three are uncreated, and omnipotent, is true. In fact the scriptures show that the Only Begotten Son of God is subject to his Father and God always. The scriptures show that there were some things that the Only-Begotten Son didn't know and that the Holy Spirit is greater than the Only Begotten Son of God because you can blasphemy against Jesus Christ and be forgiven, but if you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit you can't be forgiven. There's too much in the scriptures that show that the True God being a Trinity of persons in a Godhead isn't true.

Important detail to help you - I am agreeing with God in this: That God(Elohim) has commanded us how we are to call Him - This is a ETERNAL commandement.
This commandment was not just given to the Jews - this ETERNAL commandment is given to ALL generations of Believers in Christ.

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My Name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. -Exodus 3:14-16

The Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles confirmed this in their words for us to know HIM = the Father of the Only begotten Son and Holy Spirit = Abraham (Father of Nations) + Isaac(Only begotten Son of the Father) + Jacob( The Holy Spirit) = Echad Elohim (United One God)

The hebrew word 'echad' means: two or more united as one

We see this term 'echad' used in Scripture to describe Holy Marriage between a Man and Woman.
God said: "For this reason a man is to leave his father and be joined to his wife and the two shall become (echad: united one) one flesh." Genesis 2:24

Jesus said: "from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh"
Mark 10:6

If God said the two(husband & wife) shall no longer be two, but ONE - who are you, or anyone to say 'No' to God!
Since God said that He is Echad(United ONE) in 3 Persons = Father, Son & Holy Spirit
Who is anyone to say - 'that's not true' and thus calling God a liar!

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My Name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. -Exodus 3:14-16
 
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