Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

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David in NJ

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I will not go through all that you have written here. Briefly let me say that growing up as a devout Catholic I took the Trinity for granted because that is what they believed. I went out of formal Catholicism in 1961 when I moved to San Jose, CA. When God drew me back to Him in 1976 it was through a black family that lived for God in ways I have rarely seen anywhere else. Their living testimony won me and my wife to God. I had never heard of Oneness Jesus Only people but that is what they were. For 11 years we attended three different denominations with that basic similar belief [first was black, 2nd was Hispanic 3rd was white with only minor doctrinal differences].

From 1987 we were gone from them but not from God. What I essentially believe now is really neither Oneness nor Trinitarian. Discussions on Christian Internet forums for more than 20 years have allowed me hear the arguments of people on each side according to scripture. I believe the scriptures, but according to them so do many people who sharply disagree with each other and as I see it abuse each other in their interactions on the forums. If I needed to choose which one was right according to the attitudes most often shown by many here, I would have to choose "none of them".

I also was raised a Roman Catholic - I do NOT believe in the 3 Persons of the Godhead from catholocism. NAY, but from SOLA SCRIPTURA.
You do not need to believe what others say (including myself) but to deny what the Scriptures say of God as in the scriptures which I offer to everyone to examine = They speak for God.
I would encourage you to seek the Second Birth of the Spirit called Born-Again If this has not already taken place in you.
If it has, there is another Promise of the Father that the Lord Jesus, through His Death & Resurrection, has now made available to all who are His Elect.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Wrong again! I try to show people which versions of the Bible they should no t use because they are proven corruptions and intentional retranslatiions!

There are dozens of bibles I can recommend to people, but will not dictate which one they should use.

Lying about me is unbecoming of you.
I question any human or humans including theologians and biblical scholars who denies that it was the only Begotten Son of God who came to mankind in the likeness of the first man Adam. I don't care what anybody thinks about that. So you can go ahead and say what you want about the NWT or watchtower. So can anybody else including theologians and biblical scholars. As long as they deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human it's not really going to bother me what they say.
 
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David in NJ

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I am not trying to prove anything against you. How could I who am also a frail fallible man do that?
Tomorrow is also outside my range of vision!

Most of my life I have belonged to this church group or that one beginning with the Catholics at the age of 6 years. I left Catholicism in 1961 when I graduated from high school. I left my last non-Catholic church in late 2018. Now with the Covid 19 restrictions and my wife's lack of an immune system it seems unlikely that I will ever belong to another other than The Church [the Body of Christ] with Jesus as it Head which is not organized by any man.

Each morning I simply drop down to the lowest room with the Lord and surrender to Him so that if it be His will, He will elevate me to a place He determines is right at the moment. Give God the glory!


Dear Brother
Have you really seen me acting like them on this forum? You are the one who said, "They are not seeking Truth". Perhaps they are not, but do you really know that or only believe it? This was the point that caused me to post something to you at all.


Very good! I am glad to see the words from proverbs. Remember also the following words penned by Solomon. It explains to me why I do not respond at all to many posts on this forum even though I may disagree with them.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7


No I believe rather that they wanted to believe they were saying the truth about Job, but in actuality they did not know what to believe but they went ahead and opened their mouths when they probably should have remained silent! Like Job himself later on...

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

And then there was one wiser than Job who although completely innocent remained silent before his accusers:

"Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14

Alone I can lead no one the right way so when God does not direct me what can I do but remain silent?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Dear Brother Amadeus, Peace and Blessing n Jesus Name - Amen

I said: Job's 3 friends BELIEVED they were saying the truth to Job about God - they were wrong.
Your reply: No I believe rather that they wanted to believe they were saying the truth about Job,

God's Reply: And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.
 

Wrangler

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Who is the Word in your opinion then?

Words are WHAT’s not WHO’s.

Obviously, the word of Wrangler is with Wrangler, the word of Ronald Nolette is with Ronald Nolette and the word of God is with God.

Jesus said he does not speak his own words but the words of God, who sent him. God said he would put his words into a prophet he chooses among the people in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. This prophet is Jesus.

John 20:31 informs us everything in his Gospel was to convince us the BIG REVEAL is Jesus is the Messiah. This logically means NOTHING in his Gospel can be for any other purpose, including supporting the notion that God came to Earth incarnation.
 

David in NJ

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Je
Words are WHAT’s not WHO’s.

Obviously, the word of Wrangler is with Wrangler, the word of Ronald Nolette is with Ronald Nolette and the word of God is with God.

Jesus said he does not speak his own words but the words of God, who sent him. God said he would put his words into a prophet he chooses among the people in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. This prophet is Jesus.

John 20:31 informs us everything in his Gospel was to convince us the BIG REVEAL is Jesus is the Messiah. This logically means NOTHING in his Gospel can be for any other purpose, including supporting the notion that God came to Earth incarnation.

Jehovah Witnesses are deceivers as they proclaim to worship Jehovah, but they cannot for God will not let them unless they worship the True Jehovah = Jesus the Son of God.
God said we, His Children, can only worship the Father through the Son and we are to be Witnesses of Jesus, the Truth, the Word of God. ACTS 1:1-8
"Jesus said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Gospel of John destroys the heresy of the Watch Tower Jehovah Witness deception.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:31-37

For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Do you want to spend Eternity with God or in darkness???

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelations 21

So who??? Lit up the Temple - God or Jesus???
 
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David in NJ

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You do know that I am NOT a JW, right?

I do not know who you are but I know, believe and obey the Truth = Exodus 3:14-16 and Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1-14 and the every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
The deception of Watch Tower doctrine, as with all false doctrines, are dangerous and lead to death.

PEACE MERCY and GRACE be upon all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who believe His Word and do His will - Amen
 
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David in NJ

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You do know that I am NOT a JW, right?
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelations 21

So who??? Lit up the Temple - God or Jesus???
What in the world is Jesus doing by being an equal part of God as the Temple???
Is the upper half of the Temple God and the lower half Jesus??? = Sarcasm

God does not expect us to understand but to BELIEVE HIM and what HE SAYS is TRUE. When we do, understanding follows.
 
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David in NJ

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wrangler quotes Mark
29 Yeshua answered, “The most important is, [Hear, O Isra’el, the LORD our God, the LORD is one],
32 he is one, and that there is no other besides him

Yeshua being Jewish is speaking to the Jews in Hebrew from the ORIGINAL meaning of Scripture.
ORIGINAL = Hear oh Israel, Yehovah our Elohim, Yehovah is ECHAD
Echad means = a United ONE, two or more United as One

Who is Yehovah echad Elohim ??? answer = "Let US make man in OUR Image, according to OUR Likeness" Genesis 1:26

Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become 'echad'(united as ONE) flesh.
Genesis 2:24

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Mark 10:7-8

YESHUA says = they are no longer two, but echad = (two acting as ONE Unity)

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

Dear Wrangler and Everyone, God commands us to call Him by 3 Persons = Abraham Father , Isaac Son , Jacob Holy Spirit
"This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations."
AMEN
 
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marksman

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Matthew 28 (WEB): (19) “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (20) teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you”.

When I was baptised, about 27 years ago, I was insistent that I should be baptised in Jesus’ name, and not in the name of “the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, as is mentioned in Matthew 28:19. I was convinced of the error of the Trinity doctrine, and I strongly suspected that this was a corrupted verse – but I had no evidence to support that suspicion at that time. Now, 27 years later, and after someone on this forum claimed that they had evidence of the corruption, I have researched it and finally found evidence that vindicates my suspicion. This is a brief summary of what I found.

My suspicions were mainly based on the fact that his disciples didn’t obey that command. There are only four cases which are recorded in the New Testament where it mentions the disciples baptising in somebody's name, and in all cases they were baptised in the name of Jesus only. In particular, when Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, just days after Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19, he said:

“Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:36-38, WEB).

I don’t think Peter forgot Jesus' command so quickly, especially considering that Jesus said, “the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you” (John 14:26).

Also, Luke’s and Mark’s version of the Great Commission don’t mention baptising in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. They wrote:

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47). “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark 16:15-16).

If we suspect that a verse has been corrupted from the original writing, then normally we would seek the oldest copy that we have; the older the manuscript the more likely that it is a faithful copy (remembering that this was many centuries before the invention of printing presses, so all books were written by hand). Unfortunately, we don’t have any New Testament manuscripts older than the 4th century AD, mainly because in AD 303 the Roman Emperor Diocletian ordered that all Christian sacred books should be burnt. Diocletian's first "Edict against the Christians" prohibited Christians from assembling for worship, and ordered the destruction of their scriptures, liturgical books, and places of worship across the empire. Very few manuscripts survived, and in the only codices which would be even likely to preserve an older reading, namely the Sinaitic Syriac and the oldest Latin Manuscript, the pages which contained the end of Matthew are missing (which I think is suspicious!).

However, while we don’t have manuscripts from the first three centuries, we do have other documents where the writers have quoted from the copies of Matthew that they had access to during those times. In particular, Eusebius Pamphili, or Eusebius of Caesarea, was born about 270 A.D. and died about 340 A.D. He became a Trinitarian, and later in life he assisted in the preparation of the Nicene Creed (325 A.D.).

The Encyclopedia of Religion & Ethics states, “The facts are, in summary, that Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 21 times, either omitting everything between 'nations' and 'teaching’, or in the form 'make disciples of all nations in my name', the latter form being the more frequent”.

Fraternal Visitor, in The Christadelphian Monatshefte, 1924, page 148, states, "Codex B. (Vaticanus) would be the best of all existing MSS if it were completely preserved, less damaged, (less) corrected, more easily legible, and not altered by a later hand in more than two thousand places. Eusebius, therefore, is not without grounds for accusing the adherents of Athanasius and of the newly-arisen doctrine of the Trinity of falsifying the Bible more than once."

So it seems as though the few copies of the Matthew manuscripts that they had were altered not long after the Council of Nicaea.

There is now even better proof than this though. It was known by the Catholic Church that the Jews had preserved a copy of the original Gospel of Matthew in the Hebrew language. The fact that it exists is proof that God wanted it preserved. There have been many attempts to destroy the credibility of this very valuable Hebrew Gospel, because it is the only existing manuscript that proves Matthew 28:19 did not originally contain the Trinitarian baptismal formula. Catholics and Protestants have no other reason to cast doubt on the validity of this manuscript. In fact, early writers claim that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew:

“As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language” (Origen circa 210 A.D., quoted by Eusebius, Church History, Book 6, Chapter 25, Section 4).

In 1987 Dr. George Howard published an English translation of Shem Tob's Matthew Hebrew Gospel. A scanned copy of part one of the second edition of the book is available for download at http://www.kingdomofyisrael.org/s/w...spel-of-MATTHEW-by-George-Howard-Part-One.pdf (56.1MB). To just see the last page, Dr. G. Reckart, of the Apostolic Theological Bible College, has published the pages showing the Hebrew text and the English translation of the end of Matthew 28 on a web page – see Mathew 28:19 Fraud Exposed, and follow the links in that page for more evidence and arguments that prove the verse was corrupted.

The translation into English of verses 19-20 is “Go, and (teach) them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever”.

So it seems that the Catholic Church has willingly lied about Matthew 28:19 and the Catholics in general (including the Eastern Orthodox) have lied to the world!

From Acts 4 (WEB):

8) Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “…
10) in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, …
12) There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!”​
You have coinvinced me.
 

amadeus

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I also was raised a Roman Catholic - I do NOT believe in the 3 Persons of the Godhead from catholocism. NAY, but from SOLA SCRIPTURA.
You do not need to believe what others say (including myself) but to deny what the Scriptures say of God as in the scriptures which I offer to everyone to examine = They speak for God.
I will leave the SOLA SCRIPTURA without the quickening of the Holy Spirit alone. Satan sought to use the scripture alone against Jesus and Jesus rebuked him with the Word of God. The flesh without the blood is dead.

I would encourage you to seek the Second Birth of the Spirit called Born-Again If this has not already taken place in you.
Thank you. I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1976. My walk with and toward God has continued from that time. Now all of my time belongs to Him but I have special times every morning when I go to the lowest room and allow Him to elevate in accord with His will.
What a mighty God we serve!

If it has, there is another Promise of the Father that the Lord Jesus, through His Death & Resurrection, has now made available to all who are His Elect.
 

David in NJ

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I will leave the SOLA SCRIPTURA without the quickening of the Holy Spirit alone. Satan sought to use the scripture alone against Jesus and Jesus rebuked him with the Word of God. The flesh without the blood is dead.


Thank you. I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1976. My walk with and toward God has continued from that time. Now all of my time belongs to Him but I have special times every morning when I go to the lowest room and allow Him to elevate in accord with His will.
What a mighty God we serve!

AWESOME my Brother and PEACE unto you and i will pray for health for you and your wife - Amen

Correct - Sola Scriptura without the Spirit is like a Bow without Arrows and LIKEWISE the Spirit without the Scripture is like Arrows without the Bow. The TWO are Inseparable just as the Father and His Son and the Holy Spirit.
This is why Jesus Himself is Sola Scriptura (the Word) and He was filled with the Spirit of God.
God Bless You Brother - Thank You for your encouragement
 

marks

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Catholics and Protestants have no other reason to cast doubt on the validity of this manuscript. In fact, early writers claim that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew:
Where is this manuscript?

Much love!
 

keithr

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"So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God."

This statement is a CLEAR example of error and what the Holy Spirit wants us to avoid.
...
Jesus equal with the Father as they BOTH are the Temple - Revelations 21: 22-23

1 Corinthians 3:16) Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16) What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Each true Christian is a temple of God, and the Church as a whole (which includes Christians and their head, or chief priest, Jesus) is a temple of God.

You quoted Revelation 21:22 ("I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple"), which is part of a passage describing the New Jerusalem. Notice verses 2, 9 and 10:

2) I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.
9) One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were loaded with the seven last plagues came, and he spoke with me, saying, “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”
10) He carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,​

The New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven, from God, is the Lamb's bride, i.e. it is (symbolic of) the resurrected Church. Verse 22 says that God and Jesus will dwell in it so manifestly (verse 23, "The city has no need for the sun, neither of the moon, to shine, for the very glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb"), that there will be no need of an earthly figure of God's heavenly temple to symbolise His presence, or aid men to realise it.

So your quote from Revelation 21 does not contradict Ephesians 2:20, which says that Jesus was the chief cornerstone of the church (temple). I don't think that it is, as you claim, "a CLEAR example of error".

1 Peter 2:5-9 (WEB):
5) You also, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6) Because it is contained in Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, chosen, and precious: He who believes in him will not be disappointed.”
7) For you who believe therefore is the honor, but for those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected, has become the chief cornerstone,”
8) and, “a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.”For they stumble at the word, being disobedient, to which also they were appointed.
9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​
 

keithr

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Nope! go back and study what partakers mean and what we will be like HIm means. It doesn't mean we become divine like the Trinity.

Take it in the immediate context and then in the general con text of who we are and hwo we are transformed for eternity! Then get back to me.
The context of 1 John 3 (WEB):
1) See how great a love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God! For this cause the world doesn’t know us, because it didn’t know him.
2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

John 1:12 (WEB) "But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his [Jesus'] name".

God will makes us His sons, part of His new creation, of which Jesus was the firstborn, which will have the same divine nature as God.

1 Timothy 6:16) [God] who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):
20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.
38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.
53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) But when this perishable body will have become imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

When one takes a verse and try to make it to stand alone to prove a point- they fall flat on their face.
Yes, that can often be the case, which is why I had quoted from more than one passage in my previous post, and the verses I have quoted in this reply add to it, confirming, I believe, that the God given resurrection body for Christians is similar to the resurrection body that Jesus has - having a divine spiritual nature. I would expect that Jesus, and God, will have greater glory and power than resurrected Christians, but nevertheless we will share the same nature. How amazing is the generosity and love of God!

1 Corinthians 2:9 (MKJV):
But as it is written, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard," nor has it entered into the heart of man, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."​
 

keithr

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Yes we can, as long as you don't use an uncorrupted translation like the New World Miostranslation!
Well if the New World Translation is "an uncorrupted translation" as you claim, then perhaps we should all be using the NWT?! ;)
 

keithr

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Where is this manuscript?
See my reply in post #58. In that I wrote:

I don't think it still exists (that I know of) but in 1380 a Spanish Jewish Rabbi called Shem-Tob ben Isaac Shaprut published a work called Eben Boḥan (The Touchstone) in which he included the complete Gospel. As I mentioned in my first post, in 1987 Dr. George Howard published an English translation of Shem Tob's Matthew Hebrew Gospel. A scanned copy of part one (containing the Gospel in Hebrew and English) of the second edition of the book is available for download at http://www.kingdomofyisrael.org/s/w...spel-of-MATTHEW-by-George-Howard-Part-One.pdf (56.1MB).
 

David in NJ

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1 Corinthians 3:16) Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16) What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Each true Christian is a temple of God, and the Church as a whole (which includes Christians and their head, or chief priest, Jesus) is a temple of God.

You quoted Revelation 21:22 ("I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple"), which is part of a passage describing the New Jerusalem. Notice verses 2, 9 and 10:

2) I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.
9) One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were loaded with the seven last plagues came, and he spoke with me, saying, “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”
10) He carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,


The New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven, from God, is the Lamb's bride, i.e. it is (symbolic of) the resurrected Church. Verse 22 says that God and Jesus will dwell in it so manifestly (verse 23, "The city has no need for the sun, neither of the moon, to shine, for the very glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb"), that there will be no need of an earthly figure of God's heavenly temple to symbolise His presence, or aid men to realise it.

So your quote from Revelation 21 does not contradict Ephesians 2:20, which says that Jesus was the chief cornerstone of the church (temple). I don't think that it is, as you claim, "a CLEAR example of error".

1 Peter 2:5-9 (WEB):
5) You also, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6) Because it is contained in Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, chosen, and precious: He who believes in him will not be disappointed.”
7) For you who believe therefore is the honor, but for those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected, has become the chief cornerstone,”
8) and, “a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.”For they stumble at the word, being disobedient, to which also they were appointed.
9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​

Everything you quoted here is 100% TRUTH -
1 Peter chapter 2 is not the error.
The 'error' I was referring to is catholicism and the big lie = the Vatican is the Church of God and the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.
1 Peter chapter 2 tells us the Truth and destroys the lies of Catholocism

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all — how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? — Romans 8:31-32
 
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Marymog

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Yes, theology certainly has changed over the years, just as the Apostle Paul foretold would happen (2 Thessalonians 2:3, KJV):

... that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ...​

The doctrine of the trinity was a big falling away from the truth (apostasy)! Christians were falling away from the truth from very early on. As Paul wrote, "This you know, that all who are in Asia turned away from me" (2 Timothy 1:15). He went on to say, (2 Timothy 2, WEB):

15) Give diligence to present yourself approved by God, a workman who doesn’t need to be ashamed, properly handling the Word of Truth.
16) But shun empty chatter, for it will go further in ungodliness,
17) and those words will consume like gangrene, of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18) men who have erred concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past, and overthrowing the faith of some.
19) However God’s firm foundation stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let every one who names the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness.”

So Paul pointed out that some had mistakenly interpreted the Scriptures and were causing confusion, and causing people to abandon their faith, even in Paul's day. It's no wonder that even more errors were spread after Paul and the other Apostle had died and were no longer around to point out their errors. And that is why Jude wrote, "I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3). The theology was not intended to be changed over the years. Just because the errors became dominant that doesn't mean that it was correct! The Roman Catholic church went on to persecute and kill thousands of Christians, supposedly in Jesus' name, but that wasn't correct either!
Good Morning keithr,

Awesome....we agree! Christian theology (teachings, doctrines) has changed, or evolved, over the years! Heck, for 300 years Christians disagreed on what Scripture was (the books of the Bible) until The Church decided via the various Councils. Also, we agree that "some had mistakenly interpreted the Scriptures and were causing confusion".

So my question is: How do you know you haven't mistakenly interpreted Scripture and you aren't confused? Is anyone that disagrees with you or your church mistaken and confused?

Mary
 

Marymog

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Well that was what my first post in this thread was about!

In my opinion, it is quite convincing, and confirms my suspcion that was based on the Scriptures.

It doesn't convince me that the majority are right - the Bible is our source of proof. As Paul said in 2 Timothy (again!):

3:16) Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,
Thank you keithr.

Your "first post in this thread" suggesting that Matthew 28:19 was altered or added to is not held by most biblical scholars which means your "quite convincing" theory is not quite convincing to scholars. Are you a biblical scholar? If you were a biblical scholar you would know that 2 Timothy was a pastoral letter to Timothy from Paul. This means that the vs you referenced (2 Timothy 3:16) is not meant for every person who reads the bible, it wasn't meant for you personally. If it was meant for every person who read the bible then when I correct, rebuke and train you I am right and you should listen to me. When you correct, rebuke and train me you are right and I should listen to you. And when the Catholic Church corrects, rebukes and trains the Lutheran Church they should listen and vice a versa and so on and so on.....Can you see how your misinterpretation of that passage doesn't logically work?

Mary