David in NJ
Well-Known Member
God knows their hearts. They are not seeking Truth. Therefore the Lord will not reveal it to them.
Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse
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God knows their hearts. They are not seeking Truth. Therefore the Lord will not reveal it to them.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This shows how completely void of Scriptural support the doctrine of the trinity is as John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it.
On top of that John 20:31 informs us that Johns entire Gospel was NOT written to claim God incarnated but that Jesus was the Messiah, the SON of God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your statements against the Word declare your unbelief - The Bible is a children's book written for God's Elect.
Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word
The Holy Spirit wrote this, and He could not of made it any clearer to those who love God's Truth - His Word which was with God and was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:14
Jehovah witnesses are like those who ask Jesus "Good master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Luke 18:18
Jesus says to them - "So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."
There is One Father and One Son and One Holy Spirit and the Scriptures tell us THEY are ECHAD - United ONE
Shema - Here oh Israel the Lord thy Elohim(God/plural) is Echad (two or more united as One)
God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.…
Anyone who speaks against these Holy Scriptures / God's Word, is under deception and lying to you.
The Lord Jesus Christ = Jehovah, IAM, King of kings, thy Redeemer, the Redeemer of Israel, First and the Last, Alpha and Omega
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Well Peter tells us (2 Peter 1:4, WEB):
by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
and likewise John confirms it in 1 John 3:2 (WEB):
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.
So according to your reasoning, after we are resurrected by God we will also become God, and God will no longer be a mere Trinity. Unless, of course, your understanding of the Scriptures is incorrect on that point.
Writing something a myriad of times doesn't mean that it must be true!
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Thank you for your informative, helpful, Bible based contributions to our understanding (not!).
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Thank you for for informative, helpful, Bible based contributions to our understanding (not!).
Can't help you if your reject scripture - so remain as you are
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
So, through carnal intellect/reasoning, you are adding to and taking away from what the Holy Spirit has declared who God(ELOHIM) is.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Correct, God did not inspire trinity - He is ECHAD a United One Father Son Holy Spirit just as HE said which you and others fight against in your minds, rejecting what is written = the Holy Scriptures.
And you will fight against me because I believe the Truth which God has declared and not man.
Anyone who loves God loves His Word and delights themselves in it. They will also love those who love God. I have shared my love to everyone here with what the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit have themselves declared to be Truth. Pride and religion will always fight against God's Word. Saying you do not see something in the Scriptures does not mean it is not there, especially when clear instruction is given (Exodus 3:14-16). The process to knowing Truth does not come from you or me. It originates from God and in order for us to receive, we must submit unto God. Laying at the feet of Jesus everything we have been previously taught.
For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist,” Says the LORD. “But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word." Isaiah 66:2
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matt 16:18 bound on earth by the apostles the trinity one God nature three persons
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
But no sign of Jesus in either verse!
Speaking a word is an attribute of a being. It is NOT a being. The words quoted above are not David in NJ; they are an attribute of David in NJ.
God’s promise is His word a promise is
A sacred oath and a oath is a sacrament acts 2:38-39
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You invoke this tactic frequently; ask about something I JUST answered. Matt 16:18 has been exposed as one of many trinitarian deceptions on 2 fronts:
- Placed just before Jesus’ ascension is out of place and makes implausible the Apostles repeated disobedience of the risen Lord.
- Trinitarians rely on it as affirming the doctrine of the trinity when it does not such thing, saying nothing about the nature of God OR its importance in believing it tied to salvation as trinitarians assert.
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
Johannine Themes in the Early Church Councils
by David Arias
God the Father, God the Son,
and the ad extra Acts of the Blessed Trinity
Introduction:
The late fourth century was a time of great Trinitarian controversy. Early in the fourth century, in 325 AD, the Catholic Church dogmatically defined that the Son of God, Who is the Person of Jesus Christ, is consubstantial with God the Father and is therefore Divine. This definition was directed chiefly against the Arians who denied the divinity of the Son of God and therefore of Christ. By the end of the fourth century, however, there was a group of heretics known as the Macedonians who challenged not the divinity of God the Son, but rather the divinity of God the Holy Spirit. In response to this and other challenges to the Faith, the Church convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. One of the chief purposes of this Ecumenical Council was to define dogmatically the Divinity of God the Holy Spirit so as to make clear, once and for all, the Church's official Trinitarian doctrine.
Within the context of this fourth century time of Trinitarian controversy there arose another doctrinal matter, besides that of the divinity of the Holy Spirit, that needed to be emphasized, defined, and clarified to certain individuals both inside and outside the Church. This doctrinal matter in question asked whether the Three Persons of the Blessed Trinity act as one single Principle when it comes to all divine acts ad extra (i.e., all divine acts "toward the outside" or in relation to creation). The question was raised as to whether the Persons of the Blessed Trinity could act independently of one another, as independent Principles, in Their ad extra acts or whether all ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are necessarily common to all three Persons as to one sole Principle of action. This matter was chiefly addressed both in the years immediately before and after the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. The Church, of course, answered that all ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to all three Persons as to one sole Principle of action (Ott, 72). This doctrine, furthermore, was seen to be implicitly present in the Theology of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed in that the Creed teaches that all three Divine Persons, qua Divine Persons, possess the one (numerical) Divine Nature through which they act. As Ottmaintains, "the Fathers base the unity of operation on the unity of the Divine Nature, which is the principium quo of the Divine Activity" (72).
Moreover, we must note that during the fourth century, when the Church Fathers defended this doctrine of the common ad extra acts of the Divine Persons, they often appealed to St. John's Gospel in order to buttress their arguments. In other words, from some of their works, one can see that the Fathers viewed this Trinitarian doctrine as having its roots, at least in part, in Johannine Theology. Here we shall mention and examine some of the works of SS. Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa, and Augustine on this topic of Johannine Theology. We can see from their works that they held this Johannine doctrine of the common ad extra acts of the three divine Persons to be implicitly present in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.
Early Church Councils: The Trinity
by David Arias
God the Father, God the Son,
and the ad extra Acts of the Blessed Trinity
Introduction:
The late fourth century was a time of great Trinitarian controversy. Early in the fourth century, in 325 AD, the Catholic Church dogmatically defined that the Son of God, Who is the Person of Jesus Christ, is consubstantial with God the Father and is therefore Divine. This definition was directed chiefly against the Arians who denied the divinity of the Son of God and therefore of Christ. By the end of the fourth century, however, there was a group of heretics known as the Macedonians who challenged not the divinity of God the Son, but rather the divinity of God the Holy Spirit. In response to this and other challenges to the Faith, the Church convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. One of the chief purposes of this Ecumenical Council was to define dogmatically the Divinity of God the Holy Spirit so as to make clear, once and for all, the Church's official Trinitarian doctrine.
Within the context of this fourth century time of Trinitarian controversy there arose another doctrinal matter, besides that of the divinity of the Holy Spirit, that needed to be emphasized, defined, and clarified to certain individuals both inside and outside the Church. This doctrinal matter in question asked whether the Three Persons of the Blessed Trinity act as one single Principle when it comes to all divine acts ad extra (i.e., all divine acts "toward the outside" or in relation to creation). The question was raised as to whether the Persons of the Blessed Trinity could act independently of one another, as independent Principles, in Their ad extra acts or whether all ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are necessarily common to all three Persons as to one sole Principle of action. This matter was chiefly addressed both in the years immediately before and after the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. The Church, of course, answered that all ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to all three Persons as to one sole Principle of action (Ott, 72). This doctrine, furthermore, was seen to be implicitly present in the Theology of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed in that the Creed teaches that all three Divine Persons, qua Divine Persons, possess the one (numerical) Divine Nature through which they act. As Ottmaintains, "the Fathers base the unity of operation on the unity of the Divine Nature, which is the principium quo of the Divine Activity" (72).
Moreover, we must note that during the fourth century, when the Church Fathers defended this doctrine of the common ad extra acts of the Divine Persons, they often appealed to St. John's Gospel in order to buttress their arguments. In other words, from some of their works, one can see that the Fathers viewed this Trinitarian doctrine as having its roots, at least in part, in Johannine Theology. Here we shall mention and examine some of the works of SS. Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa, and Augustine on this topic of Johannine Theology. We can see from their works that they held this Johannine doctrine of the common ad extra acts of the three divine Persons to be implicitly present in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.
Early Church Councils: The Trinity
Papal Commentary on the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Faith:
In the year 382, one year after the Council of Constantinople, Pope St. Damasus called to together a local council in Rome wherein he anathematized certain errors concerning the doctrines of the Incarnation and the Blessed Trinity. This council was a further attempt to clarify the Church's teachings on these two central doctrines of the Faith. Moreover, this document was meant to further clarify the teachings of the Council of Constantinople and to condemn, as heretical, those views which contradicted these teachings, either explicitly or implicitly. And it is within this context that Pope St. Damasus makes clear the Church's teaching concerning the common ad extra acts of the Persons of the Blessed Trinity. The following citations are excerpts from this council which are relevant for our purposes here:
"If anyone does not say that the Father made all things through the Son and His Holy Spirit, that is, visible and invisible; he is a heretic" (DS, 77).
"If anyone does not say there are three true Persons of Father, and of Son, and of Holy Spirit, equal, immortal, containing all things visible and invisible, ruling all things, judging all things, vivifying all things, creating all things, saving all things, he is a heretic" (DS, 79).
After these and other similar statements Pope St. Damasus concludes the conciliar teaching with the following words:"This then is the salvation of Christians, that believing in the Trinity, that is, in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit, [and] baptized in this, we believe without doubt that there is only one true divinity and power, majesty and substance of the same" (DS, 82).From this teaching of Pope St. Damasus we see that at least implicitly contained within the Trinitarian doctrine taught at the Council of Constantinople is this doctrine that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to the Three Divine Persons as one sole Principle of action. Since in the second quotation above (DS, 79) Pope St. Damasus bases the doctrine of the commonality of the ad extra divine acts on the equality of the three Divine Persons, and since Their equality is based ultimately on the fact that the three Divine Persons are consubstantial with each other, we may deduce that this doctrine of the commonality of ad extra acts is ultimately based upon the doctrine of the consubstantiality of the three Divine Persons.
The Johannine Basis for the Doctrine of the ad extra Acts of the Blessed Trinity:
As was explained above, the doctrine that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to all three Divine Persons as to one single Principle is taught by the Church Fathers as having its theological roots, at least in part, in Johannine Theology. The Fathers with whose works we are concerned here are SS. Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa, and Augustine. St. Athanasius lived and wrote before the Council of Constantinople was convened in 381. Nonetheless, his writings are in complete accord with the Trinitarian doctrine defined at Constantinople. SS. Gregory and Augustine both lived during and after his Council. The works by them, that we will look at here, were written after 381 and serve as their commentaries and defenses of the Trinitarian doctrine defined at the Council of Constantinople.
In the year 382, one year after the Council of Constantinople, Pope St. Damasus called to together a local council in Rome wherein he anathematized certain errors concerning the doctrines of the Incarnation and the Blessed Trinity. This council was a further attempt to clarify the Church's teachings on these two central doctrines of the Faith. Moreover, this document was meant to further clarify the teachings of the Council of Constantinople and to condemn, as heretical, those views which contradicted these teachings, either explicitly or implicitly. And it is within this context that Pope St. Damasus makes clear the Church's teaching concerning the common ad extra acts of the Persons of the Blessed Trinity. The following citations are excerpts from this council which are relevant for our purposes here:
"If anyone does not say that the Father made all things through the Son and His Holy Spirit, that is, visible and invisible; he is a heretic" (DS, 77).
"If anyone does not say there are three true Persons of Father, and of Son, and of Holy Spirit, equal, immortal, containing all things visible and invisible, ruling all things, judging all things, vivifying all things, creating all things, saving all things, he is a heretic" (DS, 79).
After these and other similar statements Pope St. Damasus concludes the conciliar teaching with the following words:"This then is the salvation of Christians, that believing in the Trinity, that is, in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit, [and] baptized in this, we believe without doubt that there is only one true divinity and power, majesty and substance of the same" (DS, 82).From this teaching of Pope St. Damasus we see that at least implicitly contained within the Trinitarian doctrine taught at the Council of Constantinople is this doctrine that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to the Three Divine Persons as one sole Principle of action. Since in the second quotation above (DS, 79) Pope St. Damasus bases the doctrine of the commonality of the ad extra divine acts on the equality of the three Divine Persons, and since Their equality is based ultimately on the fact that the three Divine Persons are consubstantial with each other, we may deduce that this doctrine of the commonality of ad extra acts is ultimately based upon the doctrine of the consubstantiality of the three Divine Persons.
The Johannine Basis for the Doctrine of the ad extra Acts of the Blessed Trinity:
As was explained above, the doctrine that the ad extra acts of the Blessed Trinity are common to all three Divine Persons as to one single Principle is taught by the Church Fathers as having its theological roots, at least in part, in Johannine Theology. The Fathers with whose works we are concerned here are SS. Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa, and Augustine. St. Athanasius lived and wrote before the Council of Constantinople was convened in 381. Nonetheless, his writings are in complete accord with the Trinitarian doctrine defined at Constantinople. SS. Gregory and Augustine both lived during and after his Council. The works by them, that we will look at here, were written after 381 and serve as their commentaries and defenses of the Trinitarian doctrine defined at the Council of Constantinople.
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