Jesus' Return.....in the Air ....on the Mountain

[quietthinker]

This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'↑
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.
.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jesus returns in the clouds at the rapture when He calls '' COME UP HERE'' then after the great tribulation Jesus returns with the raptured believers to the mount of olives and destroys all evil and rules earth for 1000 years then satan is cast into the lake of fire and the earth is renewed and cleansed with fire and the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth and God lives with His family here! ptl.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

“What do you think that plain might be?”Consider Isaiah 40:4-8 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: [5] And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together:
…Psalm 49:1-2 Hear this, all ye people; give ear, all ye inhabitants of the world: [2] Both low and high, rich and poor, together.

back to Isaiah 40:4-8 for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. [6] The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: [7] The grass withereth, (like the withered hand)the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. [8] The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: James 1:8-12 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. [9] Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: [10] But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. [11] For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. [12] Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

For the word of our God shall stand for ever.

James 4:8-10 Draw nigh (near) to God, and he will draw nigh (near) to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble (lower)yourselves (ye sinners, double minded in all your ways, lower yourselves) in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. [9] Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: [10] But the rich, in that he is made low

1 Samuel 2:7 The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

“the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?” That plain might be for all flesh to see the glory of the Lord together because who brings down the high proud looks and exalts the lowly heart? “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together:
…Psalm 49:1-2 Hear this, all ye people; give ear, all ye inhabitants of the world: [2] Both low and high, rich and poor, together.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus returns in the clouds at the rapture when He calls '' COME UP HERE''

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

according to the prince of the power of the air…why is God’s wrath revealed against that spirit (the prince of the power of the air) that now works in the children of disobedience? Consider For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:3


“COME UP HERE” Luke 14:7-11 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms(for themselves); saying unto them, [8] When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou (that more honour able man being Christ) be bidden of him; [9] And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place(Christ); and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. [10] But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh(Christ), he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher “COME UP HERE” then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. [11] For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (There is that plain again for Luke 1:52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'↑
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.
.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

you said “Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?”

consider they are not as different as it seems …as another member posted “come up here” is still speaking of “Jesus has prepared a place” consider Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Both meeting Him in the air in “Come up here” is when He who bade you comes and says “friend, go up higher” “come up higher) and worship in the presence of those that sit with you at meat. Luke 13:28-29 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. [29] And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down (in His presence) in the kingdom of God.
…And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place(Christ); and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. [10] But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh(one more honorable than you being Christ comes), he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher “COME UP HERE” then shall thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. (when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out) …thrust out because [11] whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

more simply put “the prince of the power of the air” which now works in the children of disobedience sitting where they ought not sit …consider once again how significant is the word spoken of Him who bade you “Friend, come up Here” both references pointing towards all bowing under His feet in whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. In prepare the way of the Lord every valley shall be exalted (lifted up) and every mountain shall be brought (down) low…rejoice in this together both rich and poor…For Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. [13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 5:12-13

 

[GISMYS_7]

1 THESS 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be ""caught up together with them in the clouds,"" to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?

…rev 29 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven
…As a result of Jesus feet touching it “and I will make the place of my feet glorious”
…could it be that Jesus Christ prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on…? Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Isaiah 52:5-8 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the Lord, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the Lord ; and my name continually every day is blasphemed. [6] Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. [7] How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! [8] Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.

Isaiah 60:12-14 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; (James 1:9-11) Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. [13] The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious. [14] The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee (Christ)shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the Lord (new Jerusalem), The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

“For the Lord himself shall descend (come down) from heaven with a shout” with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Ephesians 4:9-10 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? [10] He that descended (first) is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Acts 2:30-34 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; [31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. [32] This Jesus hath God raised up (exalted above all things), whereof we all are witnesses. [33] Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. [34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
…For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout Hebrews 2:14-17 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

…For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout…and a door in heaven of opened Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet

Luke 23:45-47 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the Spirit.
…having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

[47] Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh(descended first out from heaven), was justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received (ascended) up into glory….up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things and is seated where? Having a name exalted far above any other name…

 

[quietthinker]

you said “Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?”

consider they are not as different as it seems …as another member posted “come up here” is still speaking of “Jesus has prepared a place” consider Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Both meeting Him in the air in “Come up here” is when He who bade you comes and says “friend, go up higher” “come up higher) and worship in the presence of those that sit with you at meat. Luke 13:28-29 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. [29] And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down (in His presence) in the kingdom of God.
…And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place(Christ); and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. [10] But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh(one more honorable than you being Christ comes), he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher “COME UP HERE” then shall thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. (when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out) …thrust out because [11] whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

more simply put “the prince of the power of the air” which now works in the children of disobedience sitting where they ought not sit …consider once again how significant is the word spoken of Him who bade you “Friend, come up Here” both references pointing towards all bowing under His feet in whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. In prepare the way of the Lord every valley shall be exalted (lifted up) and every mountain shall be brought (down) low…rejoice in this together both rich and poor…For Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. [13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 5:12-13

I think the 'come up here' text interpreted as it is is taken out of context to suit the secret Rapture theory.
Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think the 'come up here' text interpreted as it is is taken out of context to suit the secret Rapture theory.
Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.

“Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.“ agree because of Acts 26:19-28 for this was not done in a corner.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Right after Paul speaks of Christ appearing to him and asking “Saul,why do you persecute Me?” When Paul asks “who are you Lord?” “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute”

Paul goes on after “I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared

[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. [21] For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. [22] Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: [23] That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. [24] And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. [25] But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. “not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared [26] For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
Acts 22:4-6 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. [5] As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. [6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me

[27] King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. [28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Jude 1:23 Lexicon: save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Strong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

 

[Truth7t7]

This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'↑
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.
.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Truth7t7]

This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'↑
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.
.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Most brutal plague of all: brother killing brother. Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,

1 Corinthians 10:5-12 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. [7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. [10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. [11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. [12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth
Psalm 135:16-21 They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; [17] They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. [18] They that make them are like unto them (Matthew 23:15) so is every one that trusteth in them. [19] Bless the Lord, O house of Israel: bless the Lord, O house of Aaron: [20] Bless the Lord, O house of Levi: ye that fear the Lord, bless the Lord. [21] Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, which dwelleth at Jerusalem. Praise ye the Lord.

 

[Truth7t7]

Most brutal plague of all: brother killing brother. Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,

1 Corinthians 10:5-12 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. [7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. [10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. [11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. [12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

“Scripture does not describe anything happening in secret connected to Jesus return but rather will be public and visible to all.“ agree because of Acts 26:19-28 for this was not done in a corner.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Right after Paul speaks of Christ appearing to him and asking “Saul,why do you persecute Me?” When Paul asks “who are you Lord?” “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute”

Paul goes on after “I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared

[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. [21] For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. [22] Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: [23] That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. [24] And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. [25] But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. “not disobedient to the heavenly vision” which appeared [26] For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
Acts 22:4-6 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. [5] As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. [6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me

[27] King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. [28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Jude 1:23 Lexicon: save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Strong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving

2 Corinthians 4:15-18 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. [16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. [17] For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; [18] While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

is there a “distress of nations” with perplexity? Is the sea and the proud waves roaring? Are men’s heart failing them for looking after those things coming upon the earth?

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

is there a “distress of nations” with perplexity? Is the sea and the proud waves roaring? Are men’s heart failing them for looking after those things coming upon the earth?

Your response has absolutely no substance to refute the presented scriptural truth below, none

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Enoch111]

I would suggest they are talking of separate events.....the question is what are they?

The Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and angels are indeed two distinct and separate events which have two totally different purposes. The first is for SALVATION and the second is for DAMNATION. Yet there are many Christians who confuse and confound the two events.

As to Christ descending to the Mount of Olives and splitting it, that is a part of the Second Coming of Christ. The Mount of Olives and the plain of Megiddo are not too far from each other. So Christ will descend for the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo) and destroy all the wicked at that time.

The Resurrection/Rapture must occur at least seven years BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. And this is in fact "the Blessed Hope" of Christians. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, that takes place only AFTER the Millennium. So we need to keep events in their proper logical nd chronological order.

 

[Truth7t7]

This topic is a spill over from backlit's thread 'The Restrainer. And the Restrained'↑
...........
I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

Go for it brother...I am open to read what you have to share.
.............
There is a similarity in events between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20

Rev.20 speaks of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Zech.14 of a vast plain when the mountain splits as the result of Jesus' feet touching it.
Could it be that Jesus has prepared a place for the New Jerusalem to touch down on in Zech. 14?
The similarity here is Jerusalem and the wicked surrounding the city to do battle.
The reference to Gog and Magog in Rev 20, I'm persuaded is the vast multitude of resurrected wicked at the second resurrection which Rev.20 clearly tells us is after the millennium.

Comparing the two texts subsequently highlights the return in 1 Thessalonians 4 as a seperate event to Zech.14 / Rev 20.

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.