the abuse and misuse of scriptures

[archaeologist5]

i have only been here for a short time yet i am appaled by the abuse and misuse of the word of God when defending (if you can call it that even) one's position. I see way to much eisegetical application, too much assumption, too much manipulation and so on with scripture. there is only 1 truth and all believers should be listening to the Holy Spirit to reach that truth.

Jesus tells us in John 14 & 16 about the work of the Holy Spirit and how He will lead us to the truth NOT the interpretation, the personal opinion or any alternative. sadly, the evangelical and other church denominations have turned to 'interpretation' to live their supposed christian lives but interpretation leads to existentialism which basically means 'what a verse means to you doesn't mean the same to me' and when that attitude takes hold then the truth is lost and the Holy Spirit is no longer leading a believer or a church denomination and that leads to confusion and innocent people being hurt.

this is so greatly illustrated in the american policy on sexual harassment, where the american government has stated that sexual harassment is defined by how the receiver PERCEIVED IT' not how it was intended. this causes many problems as now the receiver of the comment gets to import any meaning they want to the words spoken (lying) to achieve their own distorted and warped purpose.

they ignore the intent for whatever reason they want and destroy the truth of the comment bringing trouble upon the speaker. this is very very wrong and it is even more wrong when applied to scripture for it is NOT how the reader perceives God's word BUT HOW God INTENDED them. Thus the believer really must be careful when the exegete a passage or verse for to import their own meanings to the words is violating the commands NOT to add or subtract from the words of God (found in Deut. and Rev.)

so please, when you use scripture, do NOT cherry pick, do not ignore definitions, Do NOT apply your own meanings but get the truth of how they shoul dbe used for one verse does not over-rule another; they work together so God is not hypocritical and God's word is NOT undermined nor open to dismissal for sin seems to appear within its pages.

there are ramifications that are huge if you misuse scripture which ruin your impact upon the unchurched world if you continue to abuse the word of God for your own personal beliefs.

 

[Johnoneone]

Im new to. I haven't posted but I did try to find out about this sites history. Post go back to 2006, there was a server change posted HammerStone most the topics have no replies in them. HammerStone and tomwebster both have been members since 2003 according to the displayed join date. I have not seen many members join date going back beyond 2010. I don't know what it all means tomwebster has a couple of links posted one from his membership info and one from his first post. http://www.pastoralministries.net/index.html http://www.thepastorsministry.net/forum/index.php
He has no friends or comments on his members page a bit unusual for being a member since 2003.

I'm like you I dont know what to think. Maybe someone else will reply. Looking at history and long time members sometimes hepls to understand the metamorphose. I wonder what happened from 2003 to about 2008? tomwebsters forum has not taken off since 2007. Thats about as far back as history can be found here.

 

[tomwebster]

i have only been here for a short time ...

No, I think you have been here before.

 

[Johnoneone]

No, I think you have been here before.

last month I was.

No, I think you have been here before.

While your here can you say something about this site? If you can look I did the searching today to reply to the topic. You dont have to be a member to look and see what the man ubove said.

 

[Thankful 1]

i have only been here for a short time yet i am appaled by the abuse and misuse of the word of God when defending (if you can call it that even) one's position. I see way to much eisegetical application, too much assumption, too much manipulation and so on with scripture. there is only 1 truth and all believers should be listening to the Holy Spirit to reach that truth.

Jesus tells us in John 14 & 16 about the work of the Holy Spirit and how He will lead us to the truth NOT the interpretation, the personal opinion or any alternative. sadly, the evangelical and other church denominations have turned to 'interpretation' to live their supposed christian lives but interpretation leads to existentialism which basically means 'what a verse means to you doesn't mean the same to me' and when that attitude takes hold then the truth is lost and the Holy Spirit is no longer leading a believer or a church denomination and that leads to confusion and innocent people being hurt.

this is so greatly illustrated in the american policy on sexual harassment, where the american government has stated that sexual harassment is defined by how the receiver PERCEIVED IT' not how it was intended. this causes many problems as now the receiver of the comment gets to import any meaning they want to the words spoken (lying) to achieve their own distorted and warped purpose.

they ignore the intent for whatever reason they want and destroy the truth of the comment bringing trouble upon the speaker. this is very very wrong and it is even more wrong when applied to scripture for it is NOT how the reader perceives God's word BUT HOW God INTENDED them. Thus the believer really must be careful when the exegete a passage or verse for to import their own meanings to the words is violating the commands NOT to add or subtract from the words of God (found in Deut. and Rev.)

so please, when you use scripture, do NOT cherry pick, do not ignore definitions, Do NOT apply your own meanings but get the truth of how they shoul dbe used for one verse does not over-rule another; they work together so God is not hypocritical and God's word is NOT undermined nor open to dismissal for sin seems to appear within its pages.

there are ramifications that are huge if you misuse scripture which ruin your impact upon the unchurched world if you continue to abuse the word of God for your own personal beliefs.

Is that so? According to whom? Are you the judge of what scriptures say? Where did you get your information? Who taught you? Was if God who taught you? If it was God witness to us, as to how he taught you. What fruits can you witness to, that verifies that it was God, if it was God, that taught you.

 

[aspen]

As far as abuses of the scriptures go, the real danger is mistaking the Bible for God. There is a such thing as spending too much time memorizing and adoring and engaging in microscopic exegesis of the written word; we can lose the simple message of loving God and our neighbor. Love; it really is that simple.

Too much time in study often leads to pride, rather than humility. It also idolizes the Bible - instead of aiding in our sanctification, it reduces God and faith to the written word. We get stuck in the transitional object stage - the Bible become a teddy bear to soothe our fragile sense of self. St. Benedict was right - we need balance - study, work, rest, prayer, and nourishment.

blessings

 

[Johnoneone]

Tom I just noticed you have been a member 3 years longer than HammerStone. Are you the owner?

 

[Johnoneone]

As far as abuses of the scriptures go, the real danger is mistaking the Bible for God. There is a such thing as spending too much time memorizing and adoring and engaging in microscopic exegesis of the written word; we can lose the simple message of loving God and our neighbor. Love; it really is that simple.

Too much time in study often leads to pride, rather than humility. It also idolizes the Bible - instead of aiding in our sanctification, it reduces God and faith to the written word. We get stuck in the transitional object stage - the Bible become a teddy bear to soothe our fragile sense of self. St. Benedict was right - we need balance - study, work, rest, prayer, and nourishment.

blessings

King James Bible
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

I think i'll watch for awhile. Nice to meet all of you.

 

[aspen]

King James Bible
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

I think i'll watch for awhile. Nice to meet all of you.

Indeed! We need to listen to all the words of God - even those we cannot reduce to language form.....

 

[Johnoneone]

Something strange just happened tomwebsters join date is now 2006.

 

[aspen]

Something strange just happened tomwebsters join date is now 2006.

I am not sure how this ties in with the topic?

 

[archaeologist5]

Is that so? According to whom? Are you the judge of what scriptures say? Where did you get your information? Who taught you? Was if God who taught you? If it was God witness to us, as to how he taught you. What fruits can you witness to, that verifies that it was God, if it was God, that taught you.

one does NOT have to be appointed to any special office to see what is right in front of their eyes.

 

[Johnoneone]

I am not sure how this ties in with the topic?

What it means is things are not as they seem here. The man that started post notices a lot of error in how members read the bible. If you look where he has been talking you see it and you see the same members. After tomwebesters date changed from 2003 to 2006 right in my eyes I am more curious. People used to call HammerStone Denver. If you look now HammerStone joined 12 feb 2006 and tomwebster is now 11 dec 2006
In 2008 I read tomwebster became a Global moderator or something like that. Most of the talk from 2006 is hard to follow because of missing from server. But HammerStone seemed to be happy with the server change and had a thread open for anyone that may have lost post. To me things are not what they seem, a member date change right after my question up above. Tom says I have been here before plus what I seen before speaking. Look at the people that dont like archaeologist 5 in his post everyone disagree or watching him. Its a differnt kind of place, you tell people here to much reading written word is bad. You said a lot today every where.

 

[aspen]

What it means is things are not as they seem here. The man that started post notices a lot of error in how members read the bible. If you look where he has been talking you see it and you see the same members. After tomwebesters date changed from 2003 to 2006 right in my eyes I am more curious. People used to call HammerStone Denver. If you look now HammerStone joined 12 feb 2006 and tomwebster is now 11 dec 2006
In 2008 I read tomwebster became a Global moderator or something like that. Most of the talk from 2006 is hard to follow because of missing from server. But HammerStone seemed to be happy with the server change and had a thread open for anyone that may have lost post. To me things are not what they seem, a member date change right after my question up above. Tom says I have been here before plus what I seen before speaking. Look at the people that dont like archaeologist 5 in his post everyone disagree or watching him. Its a differnt kind of place, you tell people here to much reading written word is bad. You said a lot today every where.

Well, this is an opinion board. Unless we are copying and posting scripture without commentary, we are simply expressing our opinions about the Truth. I think your expectations may be a bit high. As far as dates changing and identities changing - I am not sure why it matters, to be honest. Online activities are synonymous with "not being as they seem".

Finally, feel free to disagree with me about the Bible - it is only my opinion.

blessings

 

[archaeologist5]

What it means is things are not as they seem here. The man that started post notices a lot of error in how members read the bible. If you look where he has been talking you see it and you see the same members. After tomwebesters date changed from 2003 to 2006 right in my eyes I am more curious. People used to call HammerStone Denver. If you look now HammerStone joined 12 feb 2006 and tomwebster is now 11 dec 2006
In 2008 I read tomwebster became a Global moderator or something like that. Most of the talk from 2006 is hard to follow because of missing from server. But HammerStone seemed to be happy with the server change and had a thread open for anyone that may have lost post. To me things are not what they seem, a member date change right after my question up above. Tom says I have been here before plus what I seen before speaking. Look at the people that dont like archaeologist 5 in his post everyone disagree or watching him. Its a differnt kind of place, you tell people here to much reading written word is bad. You said a lot today every where.

i have a very difficult time following your posts and the bolded words especially. could you please try to write a little more coherently

 

[Johnoneone]

Opinion Board is a good way to say it. My opinion is that is what this board was started from. Its hard to use search here but google worked good. I was googling first earth age hammerstone and found this stuff here. The opening and it first steps. Its in the first pages of announcements. Lots of the 2006 post talked about earth ages. I try to copy them here. anouncement page here http://www.christian...s/page__st__120

Brief Christianity Board History Christianity Board was officially launched in early February 2006. Christianity Board started out in a strange way. One could consider the creation of CB as an act of divine intervention because we just don't think another explanation could be made. The webmaster of this website had no idea he'd create another Christian forum, but searching through domain names on a whim, he came across Christianity Board and here you have the website that you see today.About Christianity BoardChristianity Board is a non-denominational Christian forum community. We are not affiliated with any other websites, groups, or individuals on the internet. We may recommend certain resources on this website from time to time, but we are not affiliated with the sites that we suggest. Please also keep in mind that this is a Christian forum, meaning that anyone can post. Remember to always use the Bible to validate what you hear.We provide various Bible lessons (studies) that we feel can help you grow in your faith and come to know Our Father more. We have a friendly group of staff members on board to help answer questions - be they technical or spiritual - and we'll do our absolute best to get you no less than directed down the right path.What We BelieveAlthough our beliefs are more numerous and complicated than can be placed here, we have some basic beliefs that we hope that we call can agree upon.We believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Ghost). We believe that all Christians should go forth as Christ commanded:Matthew 28:19 KJVGo ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:We believe in the inerrancy of God's Word (the Bible) as a letter to all Christians on what do know and how to know Him better. While we support most versions of the Bible, we do believe that the King James Version is the "best" - and it is important to note that it is the only Bible version without a copyright. We believe in the absolute Truth of God's letter to us!2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJVAll scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.We believe in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God, the Word made flesh (John 1:14 KJV and John 3:16 KJV). We believe Christ died for us (Romans 5:8); also, that He was raised from the dead (Romans 6:4; Revelation 1:18).

Greetings All!I invite you, cordially, to check out our first lesson in the series called God's Word Bible Study! The name of this lesson is The Earth Ages Bible Study.God's Word Bible Study: The Earth Ages Bible StudyIn this lesson, we take an in-depth look at the three earth ages described in the Bible and begin to understand some of the specific details of creation and why we are where we are. I don't know about you, but the topic was a life-changing event for me and I recommend the read. It's a bit of a long lesson, but it's all equally as important and I tried to shorten it as much as possible.If you have any questions, you know how to reach me! I'd appreciate it if you'd only ask in the thread, but I will accept PM and Email questions though I will post them with your permission.God Bless!

I dont know why the link dont work but lots dont from old post. I think this place is a home for a group of people that agree about earth ages stuff. My opinion is they also be like the catholic way to. tomwebester could have said he worked here. Also he was friend of Denver aka HammerStone they just changed the date on his membership after I asked today if he was owner with 2003 date. In his pictures he looks like a Lutheran pastor I know. he does weddings funerals blesses babys homes and things like that, but he has no church. so opinion is everything and it can be a good thing to see how this opinion board started. I found the move server post on the same first anouncment page. I cant find out much about how earth ages got started someone on ask.com said L Ron Hubbard but earth ages is the first teaching. Not much posted for long time in earth ages in the bible study forum one is closed.

ATTN: Christianity Board Will Be Moving ServersThe hosting provider for this forum community, Higher Purposes, is moving servers. As the owner of Higher Purposes, I decided that the move would be best made now as this forum continues to grow. The new hosting service upstream provider is much more reliable and the server is quicker.You may make some posts on the old board as things get changed over. We apologize if any posts are lost, we are doing our best to ensure that they aren't. Thanks for your understanding!

i have a very difficult time following your posts and the bolded words especially. could you please try to write a little more coherently

apostolic succession everyone disagrees and watches you. Marrying The Same Blood I dont think they like strangers opinions

 

[Johnoneone]

I found HammerStone first bible teaching. I never heard this before. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/71-the-first-of-three-earth-ages-bible-study/

 

[Doppleganger]

I remember when this site had no more than 10 members and less than 100 posts. It was very small, and well kinda rinky-dink. But It caught my attention, because of some of the subjects. I assume Hammer is Denver. I don't know, But that's my guess. After being booted from 123 christian forums, I came here. Though sometimes the discussions can be a little .. lets see ... juvenile at times, it essentially has remained the same. 123 christianity board completely wiped my old posts, thank God unexplained-mysteries hasn't. Anyways, I Am no Catholic, I like Selene, Aspen is a bit strong minded. Originally there were no Catholic's per say here. When the anti-catholic rhetoric pumped up the Catholic's moved in to defend it, I guess. Chistina & TimFromPA were here from 123 christian forums when I got here. I always watched this forum, because it had the Lost Tribes and stuff like that. I remember the change over, things were a bit different then, but not by much. Ok, that's alI gotta say for now ...

 

[jiggyfly]

Lets get back on topic, Johnoneone if you want to continue your current discussion start a new thread please.

 

[tim_from_pa]

I remember when this site had no more than 10 members and less than 100 posts. It was very small, and well kinda rinky-dink. But It caught my attention, because of some of the subjects. I assume Hammer is Denver. I don't know, But that's my guess. After being booted from 123 christian forums, I came here. Though sometimes the discussions can be a little .. lets see ... juvenile at times, it essentially has remained the same. 123 christianity board completely wiped my old posts, thank God unexplained-mysteries hasn't. Anyways, I Am no Catholic, I like Selene, Aspen is a bit strong minded. Originally there were no Catholic's per say here. When the anti-catholic rhetoric pumped up the Catholic's moved in to defend it, I guess. Chistina & TimFromPA were here from 123 christian forums when I got here. I always watched this forum, because it had the Lost Tribes and stuff like that. I remember the change over, things were a bit different then, but not by much. Ok, that's alI gotta say for now ...

Hi Doppleganger, and I assume you are the same person that used to spell Doppleganger with all sorts of different characters. :lol: Nice running into you again.

Yes, I remember you at 123 and we kept in touch for awhile after that. I don't think they banned you for your position about the lost tribes of Israel, for I strongly hold that and although many people don't like that, they tolerate me. As long as I am not nasty and in one's face about it, they don't care if I mention it. As a matter of fact, I gotten booted from 2 other forums lately just admitting to that position.

And it's along this line I want to answer the OP> (for all)

When the bible speaks plainly and literally about something, no allegory, not symbolism, then one should take it literally as it means what it says. For example, when God promised Abraham that many Kings would come from Him, that means many kings and not something to be taken in an abstract manner. When Jesus says he is coming again, that means he is coming again and not some ethereal kingdom "In one's heart" or "out there in space affecting all of mankind". I get a tad upset when something is stated in black-and-white, it is clearly not meant to be taken as an allegory or a symbol, and yet somehow it is interpreted abstractly ---- and I'm not talking about cults, either. I'm talking some mainline Christianity as well. This is why I'm into lost tribes. When Abraham was promised "many nations" gosh darn it that is clearly not allegory nor spiritualization. Nations means nations and to interpret it any other way is taking extra license. It is not fulfilled in "people from many nations" in Christ (that's the wrong genealogy anyway).

Now the second is allegorical and symbolism. In that case, I like what the late Herbert W. Armstrong used to say --- let the bible interpret the bible. And excellent example is that the book of Daniel gives the clues to the meaning of the images in Revelation. When Revelation describes the beast like unto a leopard, I can cross reference that with Daniel and see that a leopard was the historical symbol of the Grecian Empire. So I then know that this has something to do with the beast.

I once saw a web site where the person commented on the fact that a leopard was swift and therefore that meant the beast would come quickly. Be that as it may, the person was dissociating the symbol in Daniel with that in Revelation as was putting his spin on it and not letting the Bible interpret itself.

So, in a nutshell, that's the rules I go by regarding bible use of scriptures