Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

It is written 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17).

The command issued by the Creator in Genesis 2:16-17 reveals fruit of the creature; in other words, God's command exposes Adam's obedience or Adam's disobedience.

The command of God states God's rule for Adam.

The command of God does not confer an ability to obey for Adam; furthermore, the command of God does not confer an ability to disobey for Adam.

Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command; therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.

That was the single command issued by God to Adam, and Adam disobeyed; moreover, no account of Adam obeying a command of God exists in scripture.

No scripture reveals Adam's ability to obey God.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

God did not say "you have the ability to obey" nor did God say "you have the ability to choose to obey".

Adam did not have the ability to freewill choose toward God.

As this post in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Tong2020]

It is written 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17).

The command issued by the Creator in Genesis 2:16-17 reveals fruit of the creature; in other words, God's command exposes Adam's obedience or Adam's disobedience.

The command of God states God's rule for Adam.

The command of God does not confer an ability to obey for Adam; furthermore, the command of God does not confer an ability to disobey for Adam.

Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command; therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.

That was the single command issued by God to Adam, and Adam disobeyed; moreover, no account of Adam obeying a command of God exists in scripture.

No scripture reveals Adam's ability to obey God.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

God did not say "you have the ability to obey" nor did God say "you have the ability to choose to obey".

Adam did not have the ability to freewill choose toward God.

As this post in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

@Kermos

Did you intentionally and willingly ignore my post #687? It’s about your reasoning concerning “choose” in Joshua 24:15. If not, kindly go to the link below.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

I’d be looking forward to your response to that post of mine (post #687) more than any of my other post. Thank you.

Tong
R3944

 

[MatthewG]

Okay.

 

[Tong2020]

Okay.

What’s okay @MatthewG?

Tong
R3948

 

[MatthewG]

It was the man who responded to me. Sometimes find no use in quoting; what are you up to this morning Tong? Anyone in your family sick or anything? Doubts or fears going on for you yourself?

Just woke up this morning, and just relaxing going to enjoy a cup of coffee.

 

[Tong2020]

It was the man who responded to me. Sometimes find no use in quoting; what are you up to this morning Tong? Anyone in your family sick or anything? Doubts or fears going on for you yourself?

Just woke up this morning, and just relaxing going to enjoy a cup of coffee.

I was about to respond to his response to you. But I thought I’d rather not. It’s just a repeat of much of all his post. I was amazed that he responded with about 400 words to your post of only a single word, that is, “yes” in answer to the question topic.

Thanks for asking, but no, no doubts or fears. I have relatives who are sick, one of cancer, and another of having caught the covid-19 virus, who have diabetes. But not one of my family. We prayed and continue to pray for them. How about you?

Tong
R3949

 

[MatthewG]

My mother has two kidney stones and has surgery in 3 weeks, thank you for asking friend; will write your name down to prayer list. You are welcome and you have a good day friend. (I kind of feel sick but not overly sick just tired). Going to eat some food may take a nap.

 

[Tong2020]

My mother has two kidney stones and has surgery in 3 weeks, thank you for asking friend; will write your name down to prayer list. You are welcome and you have a good day friend. (I kind of feel sick but not overly sick just tired). Going to eat some food may take a nap.

Will be praying for you and your mother @MatthewG.

May God bless us all, in the name of Christ Jesus our Lord!

Tong
R3950

 

[Kermos]

Kermos -
repeating yourself simply reveals you exercising your freewill, that you say you do not have.

Funny but worn out.

The Holy Spirit of God has me here proclaiming the Word of God to you for the Word of God is the Power of God unto salvation for all that receive the work of God which is believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent and no part of God's salvation is the work of man but God's salvation is God's grace and God's mercy (Romans 1:16, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

Based on your final paragraph you claim salvation is funny, so yours is a sinful expression.

My will is bound to God for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), but the deceiver has you so confusedly blinded that you classify as freewill that which is truly God working in me to will for God's good pleasure.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Taken]

The Holy Spirit of God has me here proclaiming the Word of God to you for the Word of God is the Power of God unto salvation for all that receive the work of God which is believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent and no part of God's salvation is the work of man but God's salvation is God's grace and God's mercy (Romans 1:16, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

Proclaiming is one thing...Judging is another thing.

Based on your final paragraph you claim salvation is funny, so yours is a sinful expression.

I was not claiming salvation is funny.
How you judge is funny.

Still, no free will written in the creation account

Beating a dead horse, does not make your repetition gain interest.

 

[Kermos]

I have not come across any erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted even a million times over and over and over, that became correct or true.

Tong
3909

Here is proof that against God you are the poster of erroneous and false statements and accusations.

Your heart says "Adam" (Genesis 2:7) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "tree" (Genesis 2:9) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "ate" (Genesis 3:6) is not an event that occurred prior to "now", and Paul wrote "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "not willingly" occurs without application to "the whole creation" and "until now", and Paul wrote "not willingly" and "the whole creation" and "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Here is more proof that against God you are the poster of erroneous and false statements and accusations.

In your heart you say that God said "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

Your heart's contention is not what God said.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

Well, @Taken, for Psalm 65:4 which you brought up earlier in the thread, in your heart you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

Even in the very scripture that you bring up it proves that man is entirely dependent upon God in every respect for salvation.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Taken]

Well, @Taken, for Psalm 65:4 which you brought up earlier in the thread, in your heart you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

Even in the very scripture that you bring up it proves that man is entirely dependent upon God in every respect for salvation.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Eh, wrong again.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I have not come across any erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that became correct or true.

Here is proof that against God you are the poster of erroneous and false statements and accusations.

Your heart says "Adam" (Genesis 2:7) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Your heart says "tree" (Genesis 2:9) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Your heart says "ate" (Genesis 3:6) is not an event that occurred prior to "now", and Paul wrote "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Your heart says "not willingly" occurs without application to "the whole creation" and "until now", and Paul wrote "not willingly" and "the whole creation" and "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Here is more proof that against God you are the poster of erroneous and false statements and accusations.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

In your heart you say that God said "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

Your heart's contention is not what God said.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Tong
R3961

 

[Tong2020]

@Kermos

Did you intentionally and willingly ignore my post #687? It’s about your reasoning concerning “choose” in Joshua 24:15. If not, kindly go to the link below.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

I’d be looking forward to your response to that post of mine (post #687) more than any of my other post. Thank you.

Tong
R3962

 

[Kermos]

You lost my attention to read further when you tried ordering me around again. I prefer speaking with people who know how to be a true Christian, and ignore those who don't. Putting you on ignore. Bye.

@CharismaticLady you are very confused because I, in no way, ordered you around in the post to which you replied.

The illumination of Scripture appears to be too bright for you, but the Good News of Christ is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), so I proclaim these lovely writings to you.

God is love (1 John 4:8), and no person generates righteous love apart from God imparting love into persons.

You do not manufacture righteous love CharismaticLady within yourself per the Apostle John for John wrote "for love is from God" about the born of God "let us love one another" in:

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

In love, I tell you that you cannot love righteously without being chosen by God per Lord Jesus (John 13:34) and per the Apostle John (1 John 4:7).

In love, I tell you that you cannot choose God (which means no free will) per Lord Jesus (John 3:3-8, John 15:16, John 15:19- includes salvation) and per the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10).

In love, I tell you that the free will that you think that you have is a deception of the devil (Matthew 15:9, John 8:44).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

oh?

so you can show me the verse that says God is the author of sin, and there is no such thing as human or angelic free will?

do tell.

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

You are off topic with angels.

Your "show me the verse that says God is the author of sin" is just as wickedly stupid as "show me a verse that says man doesn't have a freewill".

No scripture states God is the author of sin, so a person claiming otherwise is adding to scripture.

No scripture states God imparted man a freewill, so a person claiming otherwise is adding to scripture.

@post, you are documented committing great sin of adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture as this practical post and this additional example post illuminate this fact.

He who adds to scripture does not understand scripture, and you who subtract from scripture deceptively proclaim yourself an authority on scripture.

I have not added to scripture nor have I subtracted from scripture in this thread, not once.

Whem you wrote "I am not talking about free will" then you were off topic for this thread.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

The "THING MOULDED"..."FORMED"...
IS THE BODY .
IS "FORMED" By God.
IS "FORMED" In the Fashion God Decides.
(One body, two arms, two legs, ten fingers, ten toes...Formed By God...
One body, one arm, three legs, conjoined twins....Formed By God...)
* Paul says: The FORMED BODY, is Formed BY God and Gods WILL
and NOT ACCORDING TO A MANS WILL...

Correct...NOT NEWS.

You introduce SALVATION of THAT BODY, IS ALSO ACCORDING to Gods WILL...

So What is YOUR point?
ACCORDING TO GodS WILL...
God SAVES "SOME BODY'S", but NOT "OTHER BODY'S"?

Before I address your question, here's a question for you. Are you saying that God did not create every single human being?

Regarding the thing molded, Paul is talking about the whole person including mind, soul, and body.

According to Paul, the Potter, that is God, produces the vessels, that is persons (Romans 9:21).

Considering the Potter's reign over the vessels, Paul wrote "does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use" (Romans 9:21).

Considering "vessels of wrath", that is the unsaved, Paul wrote "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" (Romans 9:22).

Considering "vessels of mercy", that is the saved by God, Paul wrote "And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:23).

Considering "riches of His glory" (Romans 9:23) in this Paul conveys (1) God's salvation imparted to man, (2) God communing with man, (3) God displaying His Marvelous work of man saved from the wrath of God, and (4) Almighty God's control over the whole creation!

Considering "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will" (Romans 9:19), Paul addresses those questions with the answer of "On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this,' will it" (Romans 9:20).

Here is Paul's writing:

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory (Romans 9:19-23)
By God's grace, I know it is God's plan to save persons whom God is pleased to save from the wrath of God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN'S (THING MOLDED) FREEWILL DOES NOTHING FOR SALVATION RATHER GOD (THE MOLDER) EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLS MAN'S SALVATION (Romans 9:19-23)!

The Apostle Peter wrote:

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10)

IN TRUTH, PETER CONVEYS THAT SELF WILLED PERSONS REVILE GOD'S EXCLUSIVE MAJESTIC SOVEREIGNTY IN MAN'S SALVATION BY THE SELF WILLED PERSON'S DESPISING THE WORD OF GOD "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AS WELL AS "I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

I came to see, after going through the posts of Kermos that what he meant of free will is limited to man’s ability to choose God. He seems to not include, in his definition of free will, the ability of man to choose in the general sense of the word.

Considering then this limited definition of free will by Kermos, he asked

“Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?”

His position is no. He believes that Adam was not created with free will nor was he given free will even after the fall, nor there was any man born with a free will. Considering his definition of free will, he seems to want to make a point, which is I think, that man does not have the ability to choose God, even before the fall of Adam.

Why he limits the definition of free will to only refer to the ability of man to choose God, I can’t say.

He went on to take Gen.2:16-17 in the picture. While he admits that such was a command of God to Adam, the commandment seems for him, not a matter of choosing God, therefore does not speak of free will and does not concern free will, at least according to his definition of free will. But even with his definition, it is difficult to exclude in that commandment, the sense of it relating to obedience to the one who gave the commandment, who is God. For scriptures clearly spoke of Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as being an act of disobedience to God.

Now, disobedience and obedience involves choice on the part of the one who received command from God, a choice that involves God. And if it involves God, then I think that falls within the definition of Kermos of freewill. The question then is, did Adam make a choice concerning the commandment in Gen.2:16-17, at the time that Eve gave him the forbidden fruit for him to eat or not? Had he not given any thought about it at all? Can he be said to have disobeyed God if he had not given any thought about it? If not, then why does scriptures speak of his eating of the said tree of the knowledge of good and evil as disobedience on his part? Why was he held guilty of disobedience?

Kermos, would you care to comment on this?

Tong
R3921

The command issued by the Creator reveals fruit of the creature; in other words, God's commands exposes man's obedience or man's disobedience.

The command of God states God's rule for man, to reward or punish, to bless or to curse.

The command of God does not confer an ability to obey for man, and the command of God does not confer an ability to disobey for man; unless, God's command explicitly confers ability in the command or elsewhere in scripture, then such ability does not exist; otherwise, for a person to claim the ability exists is the person's heart wickedly adding to scripture.

An example from the Torah:

The Word of God records the command of God to Adam "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17).

Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command (Genesis 3:6); therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.

That was the single command issued by God to Adam, and Adam disobeyed; moreover, no account of Adam obeying a command of God exists in scripture.

No scripture reveals Adam's ability to obey God.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31Genesis 2:1-25 Genesis 3:1-24).

God did not say in God's command to Adam "you have the ability to obey" nor did God say "you have the ability to choose to obey".

Adam did not have the ability to freewill choose toward God.

That concludes the example from the Torah.
You repeatedly promote freewill choice as the cause of Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God definitively declared Adam listening to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:17).

Behold, regarding causation, your word, @Tong2020, differs from the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

So you wrote all this nice philosophical mumbo jumbo to say that Adam did not eat of His own free will BUT that Adam also had free will and was not forced to eat! so how did Adam eat. If he wasn't compelled, and He did not choose freely, how did he eat???????????????????

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Adam acted according to his flesh, just as Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17 as well as this post in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person).

Just FYI, at no point whatsoever did I convey that Adam did not eat based on his free will.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.