The AOD follows the birth pangs. Jerusalem surrounded by armies is before the birth pangs. There is a different narrative surrounding each of these.
Jerusalem surrounded by armies was prelude to Jerusalem's destruction, and the scattering of Israel. The AOD is prelude to Jerusalem's rescue, and the regathering of Israel.
What exactly is your question?
Much love!
You said:
"Both Matthew and Luke record the birth pangs. Matthew then goes on to detail things which are AFTER the birth pangs, Luke details things BEFORE the birth pangs."
Then you said:
"I see one account describing events that occur before, and the other events that occur after these birth pangs. So when the descriptions of what happens are different, this is because they are describing what are actually different events, separated in time."
Then you said:
"I'm saying both the destruction of Jerusalem, and the abomination of desolation were prophesied by Jesus, one to occur after, and one before the prophesied birth pangs. Two different events, two different times, all plainly stated."
So I asked:
"Where specifically is the *destruction of Jerusalem* preceding the "birth pangs?" It doesn't happen. The "birth pangs" precede the *destruction of Jerusalem.* " And that's because God's judgments upon sin take place initially as warnings, and then progress into full-scale judgment.
I don't differentiate between the "destruction of Jerusalem" and the "Abomination of Desolation." The AoD is the Roman Army that ultimately brings about the destruction of Jerusalem. Where is either the AoD or the destruction of Jerusalem *preceding* the "birth pangs?" They both *follow* the "birth pangs!"
1) You said Matthew details things *after* the "birth pangs." We know what those are: false Christs, wars, famines, and earthquakes. It is "then," or *at that time* that the following will happen: Christian persecution, religion waning in Israel, and a Christian testimony against sin in the whole world. "Then" refers to that generation to which Jesus was directing his remarks.
Luke said certain things would happen *before* wars, earthquakes, famines, and pestilences. Those things were the very things that Matthew said would happen "then," or *at that time,* or *in that generation.* They would be Christian persecution, a Christian testimony against sin in the world, and religion waning in Israel.
In other words, sin and Christian persecution in Israel would precede the judgments from God that follow. Matthew was not reversing the order, saying sin would follow the judgments--rather, he was just saying that at the same time the Disciples would see the judgments, they would see the sins that brought them on. "Then" means "at that time," and not necessarily *after that time.*
2) Then you said that you see some events occurring before, and other events occurring after. This is the problem, that Matthew and Luke were saying the *same things.* You are just reading into "then" something other than what Matthew meant. "Then" can mean *at that time,* and not necessarily, *after these things.*
3) Then you say that the destruction of Jerusalem followed the "birth pangs," and that the "abomination of desolation" occurred before the "birth pangs." But we never saw that anything, including the AoD, occurred before the "birth pangs."
The "birth pangs," on the contrary, preceded everything, except that they included other things that were contemporaneous with them--things that continued well past the "birth pangs." The Christian persecution, the waning of Jewish religion, and the preaching of the Gospel to all nations were contemporaneous with the "birth pangs," but extended well beyond them, and have continued throughout the age.
The "birth pangs" themselves only continued in Jesus' generation, and ended with the AoD, in which Jerusalem was destroyed. Earthquakes and famines continued, but not any longer as a warning sign of the coming desolation of Jerusalem.
4) So I asked, Where do you see the AoD preceding the "birth pangs?" The "birth pangs" actually precede the AoD, which is the destruction of Jerusalem. But you don't seem to understand the question:
Again, where do the Scriptures indicate the AoD precedes the "birth pangs?" You certainly don't see the destruction of Jerusalem preceding the "birth pangs," so you must've meant that the AoD precedes the "birth pangs?" Please explain!
This will be very convoluted to most because everything has been dismantled and put out of order. But I'm trying to put things back in order, just as God seems to have done for me. I'm not trying to be arrogant here--I'm submitting it for your consideration. Accept it if true. If not, forget it.