The first horseman of the Apocalypse

[Zao is life]

Now that's the truth!

LOL. You can't even read a dictionary properly, without reading your misinterpretations of scripture into it. Yout take the words "of uncertain affinity" to be saying the dictionary's definition of the word is uncertain, when all that "of uncertain affinity" means is that it's uncertain which other Greek word is related to the word being defined.

05507 χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:--thousand.

It does not mean "plural of the Greek word for thousand (singular)", because chílioi is the word for a thousand, thousand (singular). Yet you've eisegesized your interpretation of the words "a thousand years" found in Revelation 20 into the dictionary, even though the same word is used by Peter where he says, "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8).

Until you know how to read a dictionary without eisegesizing your beliefs about what words "should mean" into the dictionary, you're even less qualified than anyone else to interpret either Old Testament or New Testament Biblical prophecy properly.

Now that's the truth!

 

[Timtofly]

Fullness of the Gentiles said: ↑

You obviously don't believe the New Testament



If you don't believe that the Gentiles who believe in Jesus are just as much Israel as Jews who believe in Jesus, and that no one who does not believe in Jesus is Israel, and that the 144,000 includes all Gentiles and Jews who believe in Jesus but excludes all Jews and Gentiles who don't, then you don't believe the New Testament.

This does not apply after the door of the Ark is shut.

Do you not see that at the 6th Seal the church is glorified? They are in the full image of God.

Those genetic Israellites on earth have nothing to do with your description of the glorified church. The church is no longer on earth. No longer even Adam's flesh and blood. But those 144k are on the earth about to go through the worse trouble those House of Jacob humans have ever seen, and they are not glorified. They are sealed and able to persevere, but not part of the glorified church in Paradise.

When symbolism runs amuck, you are yourself being a "JW" who declares the 144k the completed church. You are taking Revelation and shredding God's Word in a theological shredder and not making any sense like the JW's. Reformed Theology is not the solution to the JW problem. Ye both be boiling alive in the same kettle. Actually the JW's are not the solution to Reformed Theology, since they came last on the scene. So many have rejected Revelation and fallen for the "JW errors" and think that Reformed Theology has all the answers.

John wrote it the way it is, not needing any one to turn literal thought into symbolism that literally is pointless.

But then again you shred Revelations and then pretend you know how it goes back together according to your own interpretation to fit your own ideology even better than John could ever do.

 

[Zao is life]

While I still don't see it that way, even so, doesn't this support that Israel is not cast off forever? National, house of, Israel?

Much love!

Israel has not been cast off. The remnant is saved. That's all it means. Your "genetic descendants/national Israel" is a virtual reality bubble you've created for yourself that floats around in your own world but does not, has never, and never will exist in the Kingdom of God and of His Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

There will also be the sheep of Matthew 25:31-32. All these will live in the Millennium on earth.

The church, all the redeemed prior to the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, will remain in Paradise for a Day. Since a Day in Paradise is 1000 years on earth. It will only be after the NHNE, when the church comes down as the New Jerusalem.

Matthew 25:31-46 isnt a Millennium on earth, the Sheep/Goats is a "Parable" of the Grest White Throne Judgement seen in Revelation20:11-15, that ends in final judgement in Verse 46 seen below

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Zao is life]

The last person saved and added to the church, will fulfill the saying "All Israel Shall Be Saved"

Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed, The Twelve Tribes Scattered Abroad

At last, we agree on something!

 

[Truth7t7]

The promise God made in Jeremiah is based on the New Covenant. Only those who believe in Jesus are Israel. There is a qualification that applies to Jew and Gentile alike:

John 3
18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This "National Israel" that you are talking about comprised of Jews who do not believe in Jesus is a virtual reality bubble constructed by you that floats around in your world only, but not in the Kingdom of Christ.

It floats around in Dispensationalism's teachings in (Dual Covenant Theology) in the (Two Peoes Of God) Jew/Church, a teaching in error

 

[Truth7t7]

All the promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Not were fulfilled. Jesus is alive forevermore.

They were fulfilled 2,000 years ago, and are fulfilled presently

 

[Timtofly]

First John sees the specific number of 144,000 who are on standing on earth, then he sees ANOTHER group of people who appear in heaven, too large to count, who came out of the great tribulation as martyrs for refusing to take the Mark of the beast.

This is not biblically sound thinking. No where does it say these were beheaded for not taking the mark. The mark is not even a thing in the GT. The Trumpets have not even sounded yet. The 7th Seal has not even been opened yet. This is called jumping the gun.

This great tribulation started with Abel in the Garden. It ended at the 6th Seal. It is not the GT that is about to start. They came out of great tribulation. They did not come out of the GT. All those martyrs in the OT have already been there since the Cross, when Abraham's bosom was led out of captivity by Jesus Christ. That multitude has been there serving God for 1991 years. Many have come out of great trouble, and some peacefully in their sleep. But all the church is there in Paradise at that point. No one as the redeemed church are on earth any more after the 6th Seal. Not until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 year reign of Christ in the NHNE.

 

[Zao is life]

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

You've divorced those words from what they are based on: The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31). It's the New Covenant in Christ's blood (Matthew 26:28), and no one who does not believe has a part in the New Covenant (John 3:18). The reason why the seed of Israel is not cast off is because there is a saved remnant (Romans 11:1-5).

So you are practicing eisegesis, reading into the New Covenant the virtual reality bubble which you have created and which you call "national Israel" (and which, in your virtual reality bubble, consists of unsaved, unbelieving Jews only, but not unbelieving Gentiles).

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 25:31-46 isnt a Millennium on earth, the Sheep/Goats is a "Parable" of the Grest White Throne Judgement seen in Revelation20:11-15, that ends in final judgement in Verse 46 seen below

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Sorry, but God sits on the GWT, and it is here, and has been since Day 1.

So when Jesus comes to Jerusalem at the Second Coming and sits on a throne in His newly built Temple, it is most definitely not the GWT. The GWT does not fit in a temple nor in Jerusalem, nor even the whole area of the ME.

It has always been, and not the one in Matthew 25, not even symbolically. If you reject a literal Jesus Christ in literal Jerusalem, I cannot help you with that. You will probably never change your mind, and I am truly sorry about that.

 

[Zao is life]

How did they in the first century know where the lost tribes were?

I can't answer the rest of what you said because you have based it on a misinterpretation of what I said (and what I'm saying).

1. The exile and scattering of the house of Israel - the 10 tribes - took place from circa 725 BC, and has continued since then, and since then, the descendants of the 10 tribes of the house of Israel who became scattered among the nations, have intermarried with Gentiles and have become amalgamated with the Gentile nations - to the point where it's impossible to find the genetic descendants of the house of Israel (the 10 tribes) and positively identify them anywhere among the nations anymore. They are a completely mixed multitude now.

The 10 tribes are (frequently) collectively called Ephraim in Old Testament prophetic scripture talking to and about them (for example Isaiah 7:8).

2. On his death-bed, Jacob told Joseph that the descendants of Ephraim - collectively referring to the 10 northern tribes - would become the fullness of the Gentiles (as it's written in the Hebrew of Genesis 48:19). The only other place in the Bible where the term fullness of the Gentiles is found, is in Romans 11:25.

3. The prophecy Paul quoted in Romans 9:24-26 is from Hosea 1:9-10, and in its Old Testament biblical context, it's referring only to the house of Israel - the 10 tribes. In its context the prophecy is not referring to the Jews (the house of Judah), and it's not referring to the Gentiles. But Paul quotes it, and includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in it.

4. Paul again includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in Israel in Romans 11:17.

The Gentiles who believe in Jesus are included into the 12 tribes of Israel, regardless of our genetic ancestry.

Once you understand what I'm saying (or at least attempt to), then I can attempt to understand the many nuances in your interpretations of prophetic scripture.

 

[Zao is life]

They were fulfilled 2,000 years ago, and are fulfilled presently

That's better. Jesus is alive so the promises were fulfilled in Him, and are fulfilled in Him.

 

[Zao is life]

This does not apply after the door of the Ark is shut.

Do you not see that at the 6th Seal the church is glorified? They are in the full image of God.

Those genetic Israellites on earth have nothing to do with your description of the glorified church. The church is no longer on earth. No longer even Adam's flesh and blood. But those 144k are on the earth about to go through the worse trouble those House of Jacob humans have ever seen, and they are not glorified. They are sealed and able to persevere, but not part of the glorified church in Paradise.

When symbolism runs amuck, you are yourself being a "JW" who declares the 144k the completed church. You are taking Revelation and shredding God's Word in a theological shredder and not making any sense like the JW's. Reformed Theology is not the solution to the JW problem. Ye both be boiling alive in the same kettle. Actually the JW's are not the solution to Reformed Theology, since they came last on the scene. So many have rejected Revelation and fallen for the "JW errors" and think that Reformed Theology has all the answers.

John wrote it the way it is, not needing any one to turn literal thought into symbolism that literally is pointless.

But then again you shred Revelations and then pretend you know how it goes back together according to your own interpretation to fit your own ideology even better than John could ever do.

The door of the ark will not be shut until the 144,000 are sealed, and the 144,000 are identified in verse 9 (Revelation 7:9). Here's who the twelve tribes are:

1. The exile and scattering of the house of Israel - the 10 tribes - took place from circa 725 BC, and has continued since then, and since then, the descendants of the 10 tribes of the house of Israel who became scattered among the nations, have intermarried with Gentiles and have become amalgamated with the Gentile nations - to the point where it's impossible to find the genetic descendants of the house of Israel (the 10 tribes) and positively identify them anywhere among the nations anymore. They are a completely mixed multitude now.

The 10 tribes were frequently collectively called Ephraim in Old Testament prophetic scripture talking to and about them (for example Isaiah 7:8).

2. On his death-bed, Jacob told Joseph that the descendants of Ephraim - of the 10 northern tribes - would become the fullness of the Gentiles (as it's written in the Hebrew of Genesis 48:19). The only other place in the Bible where the term fullness of the Gentiles is found, is in Romans 11:25.

3. The prophecy Paul quoted in Romans 9:24-26 is from Hosea 1:9-10, and in its Old Testament biblical context, it's referring only to the house of Israel - the 10 tribes. It's not referring to the Jews (the house of Judah), and it's not referring to the Gentiles in its context. Paul quotes it, and includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in it.

4. Paul again includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in Israel in Romans 11:17.

The Gentiles who believe in Jesus are included into the 12 tribes of Israel, regardless of our genetic ancestry.

Revelation 15
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His authority. And no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is not biblically sound thinking. No where does it say these were beheaded for not taking the mark. The mark is not even a thing in the GT. The Trumpets have not even sounded yet. The 7th Seal has not even been opened yet. This is called jumping the gun.

This great tribulation started with Abel in the Garden. It ended at the 6th Seal. It is not the GT that is about to start. They came out of great tribulation. They did not come out of the GT. All those martyrs in the OT have already been there since the Cross, when Abraham's bosom was led out of captivity by Jesus Christ. That multitude has been there serving God for 1991 years. Many have come out of great trouble, and some peacefully in their sleep. But all the church is there in Paradise at that point. No one as the redeemed church are on earth any more after the 6th Seal. Not until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 year reign of Christ in the NHNE.

Your views in eschatology are just a big smile, unfound in the Holy scripture I read

 

[Truth7t7]

So when Jesus comes to Jerusalem at the Second Coming and sits on a throne in His newly built Temple, it is most definitely not the GWT. The GWT does not fit in a temple nor in Jerusalem, nor even the whole area of the ME.

It has always been, and not the one in Matthew 25, not even symbolically. If you reject a literal Jesus Christ in literal Jerusalem, I cannot help you with that. You will probably never change your mind, and I am truly sorry about that.

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Curtis]

This is not biblically sound thinking. No where does it say these were beheaded for not taking the mark. The mark is not even a thing in the GT. The Trumpets have not even sounded yet. The 7th Seal has not even been opened yet. This is called jumping the gun.

This great tribulation started with Abel in the Garden. It ended at the 6th Seal. It is not the GT that is about to start. They came out of great tribulation. They did not come out of the GT. All those martyrs in the OT have already been there since the Cross, when Abraham's bosom was led out of captivity by Jesus Christ. That multitude has been there serving God for 1991 years. Many have come out of great trouble, and some peacefully in their sleep. But all the church is there in Paradise at that point. No one as the redeemed church are on earth any more after the 6th Seal. Not until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 year reign of Christ in the NHNE.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The great tribulation is so obviously and ridiculously clearly for 42 months, 3.5 years.

That’s how long the mark is given, during the great tribulation.

 

[Zao is life]

According to Ezekiel, King David will be raised to again be king over Israel.

Jesus, the King of Kings.
David, King of Israel.
12 Apostles, Judges over 12 tribes.

That's what I see in the prophecies.

Much love!

King Jesus has already been raised as King of Israel. There is no future fulfillment. Only an ongoing fulfillment.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 25:31-46 isnt a Millennium on earth, the Sheep/Goats is a "Parable" of the Grest White Throne Judgement seen in Revelation20:11-15, that ends in final judgement in Verse 46 seen below

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And the great white throne comes how long after Satan has been destroyed in the LoF?

And Satan is destroyed in the LoF how long after the beast and the false prophet (who are already there when Satan is destroyed in it)?

And the second death at the time of the Great White Throne occurs how long after those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and their refusal to worship the beast and its image begin to reign with Christ?

And does the seond death have power over those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and their refusal to worship the beast and its image once they are living and reigning with Christ?

 

[Zao is life]

This does not apply after the door of the Ark is shut.

Do you not see that at the 6th Seal the church is glorified? They are in the full image of God.

Those genetic Israellites on earth have nothing to do with your description of the glorified church. The church is no longer on earth. No longer even Adam's flesh and blood. But those 144k are on the earth about to go through the worse trouble those House of Jacob humans have ever seen, and they are not glorified. They are sealed and able to persevere, but not part of the glorified church in Paradise.

When symbolism runs amuck, you are yourself being a "JW" who declares the 144k the completed church. You are taking Revelation and shredding God's Word in a theological shredder and not making any sense like the JW's. Reformed Theology is not the solution to the JW problem. Ye both be boiling alive in the same kettle. Actually the JW's are not the solution to Reformed Theology, since they came last on the scene. So many have rejected Revelation and fallen for the "JW errors" and think that Reformed Theology has all the answers.

John wrote it the way it is, not needing any one to turn literal thought into symbolism that literally is pointless.

But then again you shred Revelations and then pretend you know how it goes back together according to your own interpretation to fit your own ideology even better than John could ever do.

When symbolism runs amok you wind up with Timtofly's eisegesis of the 144,000.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 25:31-46 isnt a Millennium on earth, the Sheep/Goats is a "Parable" of the Grest White Throne Judgement seen in Revelation20:11-15, that ends in final judgement in Verse 46 seen below

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Son of Man has already come, and the nations have already been separated:

John 12
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.
33 But He said this, signifying what kind of death He was about to die.

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

John 3
18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 is also the decreed sentence for a world that has already been judged and found guilty - the decreed sentence which will be carried out at the time of the Great White Throne:

Revelation 20
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.