The problem with the thousand years?

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Marty fox

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Revelation 19:16-21

"And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

This was the literal physical battle of Armageddon. Chapter 16 was the 3 spirits calling them to this physical battle. 17 and 18 was the symbolic application of the state of affairs the whole world was in at the end of those 42 months.

You cannot ignore the actual physical battle. You cannot separate the FP, the beast, and Satan from this physical event. The FP and the beast were tossed into the lake of fire. Satan was bound in the pit. This was the end of those 42 months to the hour.

The last hour was when the 10 kingdoms show up and join with Satan, the FP, and the beast. The battle was only an hour, because that was the only hour God allowed, the battle itself. Did the actual battle last for an hour? Hard to say. There was either time allowed for any to change their minds, or Jesus literally took an hour to kill every last one of them, instead of doing it instantly.

Well I don’t see revelation 19 as a literal battle but that’s a different debate but let’s see the differences in revs 16 and revs 19 battles

Rev 16:16-21
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

See above above that Babylon the great is judged we also see all through chapter 18 and who destroys Babylon the great?

Rev 17:16-17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Yes the beast and the 10 horns. We also see earlier in chapter 16 that the beast is in the battle of rev 16.

Now in the verses of rev 19 which you provided there is no mention of the term Armageddon or Babylon the great but we do see that it’s actually the destruction of the beast and the false prophet
 
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Marty fox

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Revelation 1:5-6 KJV
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Yes He has already made us kings and priest
 

Marty fox

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Marty Revelation 16:12-17 below represents the second coming end of this world

Verse 15) the warning the Lord is returning, "behold I come as a thief"

Verse 16) the world is gathered together at Armageddon

Verse 17) the 7th vial (It Is Done) The End

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

I believe that it was the final end of the Old Testament temple and sacrificial age that was dealt with
 

Zao is life

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Revelation 20:6 KJV
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 1:5-6 KJV
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
But.. but.. I wasn't beheaded!! (gulp, I better go check my head's still on..)
 

Marty fox

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That was an interesting statement. I assume you mean it already happened in 70 A.D? And indeed it could just as well apply to Jerusalem AD 70, were it not for one statement in verse 19: "and the cities of the nations fell."

When a huge city like Jerusalem in the first century which was a huge inpact religiously and economically on other cities it greatly effects them just like our fragile world today. The point is that it was just Babylon the great that was judged in this chapter.
 

Truth7t7

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Well I don’t see revelation 19 as a literal battle but that’s a different debate but let’s see the differences in revs 16 and revs 19 battles

Rev 16:16-21
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

See above above that Babylon the great is judged we also see all through chapter 18 and who destroys Babylon the great?

Rev 17:16-17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Yes the beast and the 10 horns. We also see earlier in chapter 16 that the beast is in the battle of rev 16.

Now in the verses of rev 19 which you provided there is no mention of the term Armageddon or Babylon the great but we do see that it’s actually the destruction of the beast and the false prophet
Marty Revelation 16:12-17 below represents the second coming end of this world

Verse 15) the warning the Lord is returning, "behold I come as a thief"

Verse 16) the world is gathered together at Armageddon

Verse 17) the 7th vial (It Is Done) The End

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

Timtofly

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The book of Revelation is taught in "Parallel" teachings of the same events

Revelation 11:18, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 20:10-15, all represent the final judgement on the last day in "Parallel" teachings

The book isnt taught in chronological order as dispensationalism teaches

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Satan is (Death) and will be the last enemy destroyed at the second coming, final judgement, 1 Corinthians 15:26

Yes the Beast and false prophet, and all the worlds wicked that have lived will be in the Lake of Fire, when the last enemy death is destroyed

Revelation 20:10-15KJV
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
And those parallel assumptions are man made opinions just as much as dispensations are not clearly defined. No where does John point out to interpret Revelation in a parallel fashion.

If you accuse dispensational thought to be in error, you have to claim parallelism is in error as well, but your choice of the "best" error.
 
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Timtofly

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Santa Claus and Little Red Riding Hood Have More Validity Than A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, And We Know Well They Are Fictional Fables Of Man
Now placing fables over the Word of God. Revelation 20 is God's Word. Now you want us to accept fables have more truth than God's Word? When will you stop making excuses?
 
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Zao is life

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You have been shown several times, and once again

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
You have been shown several times, once again: The souls of those who John saw living and reigning with Christ are they who have taken part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them.
 

Truth7t7

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When a huge city like Jerusalem in the first century which was a huge inpact religiously and economically on other cities it greatly effects them just like our fragile world today. The point is that it was just Babylon the great that was judged in this chapter.
The 70AD Roman Destruction Of Jerusalem Has No Relevance To The Revelation, That Was Written Decades After The Destruction

When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence
The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus
Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome
Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).
 

Timtofly

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Revelation 20:6 KJV
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 1:5-6 KJV
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Do you think Enoch is just a hidden gem forgotten in Paradise, or has he had input on the affairs of humanity? What about Abel who physically died in Paradise? Is he still just dust of the ground in Paradise?
 

Zao is life

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1 John 3:14 KJV
[14] We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
The first resurrection.

resurrection is to be raised from death to life. That’s what it means.
I only liked because I liked this: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

May we all take it to heart.

But John did not end with, or add what you added ("the first resurrection"). That's your addition, so I never liked because I agree with you.
 
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Truth7t7

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If you accuse dispensational thought to be in error, you have to claim parallelism is in error as well, but your choice of the "best" error.
The entire bible is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events, "Big Smiles"!

Hard to take you seriously, in love

Jesus Is The Lord
 

Timtofly

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I fully agree that those seen in Revelation 20:4-6 are (The Souls) and (The Dead) that have no physical bodies on this earth, they are living and reigning with the Lord in the spiritual realm of one day is a thousand years
They have already died?

What did they do, and where were they before they were resurrected? Between the time they were beheaded and they were resurrected?
 

Timtofly

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Satan is "currently" bound from deceiving the nations to the final battle, the future 6th vial in Revelation 16:12 must be poured for him to be loosed
Then all on earth will be destroyed by fire? So those beheaded dead are currently dead, or resurrected?