Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[marks]

This topic is toxic... and it is dangerous... for those who dare believe that they
must do good and be good to 'remain' saved.

Just so.

I'm not so quick to just give a pass to those who push it so hard.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is a FALSE FLAG based on nothing but summation YET... it is brought up over and over again.... I believe the motivation for this platform is based on jealousy....It seems to offend the legalist that there are some of us who REST in the GOSPEL... they seem to think this means we don't do
anything with regards to working out our salvation... in their estimation we are simply BASKING in the carnal pleasures of life... because after all... we are SAVED by the Blood.
This is a blatant lie... as well as a slanderous accusation.

Galatians 2:3-5 KJV
3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 6:12-14 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Those who envy our liberty try to steal it from us, so that they can pull us into their invented bondage, so that they can feel good about their power over us, that they can drag us into the flesh.

But I stand with the cross of Christ, Jesus Christ crucified.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Obedience to Christ is something that a believer surrenders to.... and our sanctification is a life-long journey. As many will attest to ( I think )... the older one gets... the easier it is to avoid sin. It comes from having fallen in love with Christ. The motivation of SERVING as you put it... comes from LOVE and DEVOTION..... and NOT from DUTY and FEAR.

We live for Him because He lives in us. Not that we live for Him so He won't destroy us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here is my understanding . . .

OSAS is certainly true in that the salvation of God is irrevocable. If we think of "salvation" as eternal life and "being saved" as the receiving of eternal life, then it becomes easier to understand this; nobody who enters eternal life can ever forfeit it (otherwise, it was never eternal life that they entered into). So in that sense, OSAS does reflect the biblical reality of God's salvation.

But OSAS does carry some baggage because there will be those who use the term to justify or defend a licentious or immoral way of living. But I believe that biblical salvation is to share in God’s gift of eternal life in obedience and righteous living through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Christ receives all who come to Him, and whoever does come, He will never cast out.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

jb

I think you've said this well!

I hope to let people see through that baggage man piles on, to see the gem of truth that being His child is something amazing and wonderful and forever.

Much love!

 

[jessiblue]

I think you've said this well!

I hope to let people see through that baggage man piles on, to see the gem of truth that being His child is something amazing and wonderful and forever.

Much love!

Thanks for the support, marks. I was hesitant about posting and being misunderstood. jb

 

[BarneyFife]

We all have a tendency to read into the Bible what we need to justify and preserve our established opinions. None of us are immune to the condition, however convincingly some are taking the high road.

Galatians 2:3-5 KJV
3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 6:12-14 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Those who envy our liberty try to steal it from us, so that they can pull us into their invented bondage, so that they can feel good about their power over us, that they can drag us into the flesh.

But I stand with the cross of Christ, Jesus Christ crucified.

Much love!

This seems like straw man territory to me, my friend. Those of us who advocate obedience to the commandments of God make a distinction between types and shadows and moral code. This definitely seems like unfair comparison to me. I, for one, heartily endorse your liberty to forego circumcision of the flesh.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When ones traces back "legalism", as defined by historical "philosophers", it IMO throws a monkey wrench into the mix, for sideline deflection.

Jesus came to earth to Accomplish many specific things. Broadly yet expressly He came in the "likeness AS a man", TO: teach earthly men "how to BE in Gods Likeness".

First off, Jesus came ... AS A "servant".
No man can "DO" (works), can "RECEIVE" (rewards)....until such time: "that man"....
Hears, Learns, Comprehends, WHAT a "SERVANT IS" and then "freely Chooses"...
TO "BE" a "servant of God".

THAT ^ is a "choice"... not a gift FROM God, not a blessing FROM God, not a WORKS of a man.

It's more like....Hey, do you want to be a Servant to God...or not?
IF you DO....say so.
If you DO.....here's the DEAL....(you are a unique "individual")... any time, any place...
The Lord God, may require "your service"... that has NOT ONE IOTA to do with what "any other individual willing servant is called to do, in Service to the Lord God."

The Scripture reveals, All mens, "Reasonable Service" unto the Lord God...

Romans 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

"IF" any man, does NOTHING else...but;
present his body as a living sacrifice, holy, (which is the heartful presentment, not mindful presentment)....that man IS Acceptable to God.

THAT is the deciding factor...
WITH God...WITH and IN Christ...or not.
NOT Works, NOT philosophical mumbo jumbo, NOT a long list of repetative RITUALS, NOT repeatedly ASKING the Lord God FOR WHAT He has already given a person...
blah, blah, blah.

Remember the "man condemned by men"....hanging next to Jesus...?
"Void of man's long list of "requirements"...
That man was Acceptable and Saved.

Bottom line...VOID of mans "requirements"...
By Gods Grace and Mercy...is Gods Offering of Salvation possible.
By a mans heartful belief...is a man Acceptable to receive Gods Offering of Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus did not preach a new set of Rules so that a person could merit Heaven—— Jesus preached HIMSELF—— * I* am the Way......*I* am the Truth.....*I* am the Life “...... get Saved by RESTING in * HIS* Gospel. Find it in 1Cor15:1-4.....

 

[BarneyFife]

I think you've said this well!

I hope to let people see through that baggage man piles on, to see the gem of truth that being His child is something amazing and wonderful and forever.

Much love!

Again, straw man. Just because some would rather hear nothing of the necessity of obedience, that does not mean those who would are oblivious to the sublime benefits of being justified by faith. According to the Master, however easy and light they may be, there is a yoke and there is a burden.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, I have heard the words "legalism and legalistic" tossed about. Wasn't sure what was the supposed meaning.

You say, as I bolded, and I did a verification check;
And found multiple meanings.
Inanutshell appears to mean; Works are the KEY to Salvation?

That meaning seems a bit obscure to me.
Legalism...in my POV has to do with a Legal, a Lawful "requirement", for "something" "within the Law TO APPLY".

Apparently, "in legalism", The WORKS and OBEDIENCE of a PERSON, must be MET, "before" they are "JUSTIFIED", to "receive" something.....that "something" being...
Salvation?

A “ weak” Believer thinks that it wrong to drink a glass of wine.....the Legalist says that you will go to Hell for drinking one glass of wine....but then if you “ repent” of that sin before you die, you are “ good enough” again to get to Heaven.....

 

[marks]

Thanks for the support, marks. I was hesitant about posting and being misunderstood. jb

I think the lion's share of debate on this topic is over all that baggage.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes and Yes.... and Yes again.
The thief on the cross...-because he believed.

My frustration in these discussions is birthed from a few in particular who seem to delight in accusing the brethren and twisting every single word spoken by those who believe in Security of Salvation ( OSAS ).

I don't know where these sin loving... Grace abusing Christians are... who condone all sorts of nasty behaviours... I do not know of any Christians who live this way.... but apparently... they are everywhere. This is one of the hugest accusations flying around...
It is a FALSE FLAG based on nothing but summation YET... it is brought up over and over again.... I believe the motivation for this platform is based on jealousy....It seems to offend the legalist that there are some of us who REST in the GOSPEL... they seem to think this means we don't do
anything with regards to working out our salvation... in their estimation we are simply BASKING in the carnal pleasures of life... because after all... we are SAVED by the Blood.
This is a blatant lie... as well as a slanderous accusation.


The above is why I will no longer read anything or communicate with several within the forums.

The bible CLEARLY describes how a Christian is supposed to live... and by His GRACE and HIS PROMISES... God is more than capable of bringing one of His children unto Himself.

Obedience to Christ is something that a believer surrenders to.... and our sanctification is a life-long journey. As many will attest to ( I think )... the older one gets... the easier it is to avoid sin. It comes from having fallen in love with Christ. The motivation of SERVING as you put it... comes from LOVE and DEVOTION..... and NOT from DUTY and FEAR.

That is the difference between legalism ( I must do this and that in order to please God and thus get saved ) and GRACE ( I want to do everything to please my precious Lord because I love Him so )... Both attitudes/ beliefs will produce fruit... One is sweet smelling and the other is bitter.

AS for correction... ( another hot topic that usually gets mashed in )... The bible indeed has a clear explanation on HOW to properly correct a member of the church who has fallen into sin. ( I am assuming that this is for a sinner who is not desiring to repent ) otherwise... there is NO NEED to correct someone who has ALREADY repented.

I have heard horror stories of churchs' making people who have sinned stand up in front of the entire congregation and confess their sin... You might as well just stone them and get it over with.

Correction is highly abused within the brethren... and perhaps that is because the church is NOT doing their diligent duty in gently taking one who is lost aside and exhorting them to a better way.

Lots of problems... lots of accusations... lots of pride.... lots of arrogance... lots of accusing and demeaning... and it's all fabricated... for the sake of protecting the notion that one must do go... and be good... in order to be worthy for Salvation. Seems to make them feel safe rather than grateful.

NO one is worthy of Salvation... but CHRIST paid the penalty for our SIN...HE is the ONLY one who is WORTHY.

For those who think themselves better than the drunk down the street... that my friends is PRIDE and NOT understanding where you fit in on the food chain... LOL

Brilliant,as usual......boy,you have really been blessed by God....please don’t deprive an on- looking world that consists of vulnerable Newbies of the Truths that they need to hear.....they are not getting it in most of their churches—— you see the results here every day.....please keep up you inspired , God- Breathed Work.........shake off the ice from your frost- bitten fingers and continue to participate, eh? lol....

 

[BarneyFife]

Galatians 2:3-5 KJV
3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 6:12-14 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Those who envy our liberty try to steal it from us, so that they can pull us into their invented bondage, so that they can feel good about their power over us, that they can drag us into the flesh.

But I stand with the cross of Christ, Jesus Christ crucified.

Much love!

I've got an idea for a fun exercise. Try to find a text that sounds as forceful as these regarding the keeping of one of the ten commandments.

 

[marks]

Again, straw man. Just because some would rather hear nothing of the necessity of obedience, that does not mean those who would are oblivious to the sublime benefits of being justified by faith. According to the Master, however easy and light they may be, there is a yoke and there is a burden.

I don't think this is a straw man.

Jesus' yoke, Jesus' burden, and they are truly light!

But just the same, I think there's baggage, and I do want to bring clarity, and simplicity.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No, one must continue to have faith in Christ, not perform works of self righteousness, to remain saved.

Some say that's a given and that the true believer will always believe and can't stop believing.
Some say the true believer has a choice to continue to believe or stop believing.
But either way, the truth stands that a person must continue to believe to the very end in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. Neither of these arguments changes that fact. And God has not left us with the burden of conjuring up a 'believing' that we do not have the ability to conjure up. The ability to believe comes from him and he'll keep it in plentiful supply if we'll just rely on him to keep it in plentiful supply.

God has promised to “ FINISH the work that HE Started”

Jesus took it upon himself to make sure that He present us as “ Blameless” before His Father

Two great Promises to “ hang your hat on”

 

[marks]

We all have a tendency to read into the Bible what we need to justify and preserve our established opinions.

OK, maybe, but not necessarily.

I don't say this much. I'm almost autistic. I'm almost genius. I have Stimulus Perception Sensitivity. My brain doesn't work the same as lots of brains work.

We should be careful, I think, of generalizing.

And besides, it all just comes down to whether God said it or not. Right?

My thing is that I know truth sets us free, so I seek the truth, whatever it may be. I've been corrected over the years, and I cherish every instance. Coming to see an error I've made is wonderful! Like stepping out into sunshine!

This seems like straw man territory to me, my friend. Those of us who advocate obedience to the commandments of God make a distinction between types and shadows and moral code. This definitely seems like unfair comparison to me. I, for one, heartily endorse your liberty to forego circumcision of the flesh.

Circumcision serves as the example. Do you think that if we replace circumcision with tithing, for instance, that we get any different result?

The Law. When you say you have to do the works of the Law, that you have to do them to be, or to remain saved, then you are on the hook to keep the entire law. If you are going to base your standing with God, right now, today, on whether or not you are doing the "right things", then that's what I'm talking about.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've got an idea for a fun exercise. Try to find a text that sounds as forceful as these regarding the keeping of one of the ten commandments.

Do you mean to ask, if there is a passage that demands we keep a commandment to remain saved?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God has promised to “ FINISH the work that HE Started”

Jesus took it upon himself to make sure that He present us as “ Blameless” before His Father

Two great Promises to “ hang your hat on”

Two of many!

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is my understanding . . .

OSAS is certainly true in that the salvation of God is irrevocable. If we think of "salvation" as eternal life and "being saved" as the receiving of eternal life, then it becomes easier to understand this; nobody who enters eternal life can ever forfeit it (otherwise, it was never eternal life that they entered into). So in that sense, OSAS does reflect the biblical reality of God's salvation.

But OSAS does carry some baggage because there will be those who use the term to justify or defend a licentious or immoral way of living. But I believe that biblical salvation is to share in God’s gift of eternal life in obedience and righteous living through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Christ receives all who come to Him, and whoever does come, He will never cast out.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

jb

Still the issue is the proposed reality of it. And eternal life as such is a fact it just depends if it is eternal life in heaven or eternal life in in hell.

Your statement that ---- "OSAS is certainly true in that the salvation of God is irrevocable" ---- is erroneous with the practicality of OSAS. Then again, it is true that if you say one can lose their salvation, then you speaking against several scriptures. I vote on the side that your salvation is permanent in the sense once a Christian always a Christian. Then on the other hand the day you are saved is not Judgment Day. There is a journey between the day you are saved and the day you stand before Christ. And on that day He will judge you to either heaven or hell...Christian or not.

The heresy that all manner of evil will go to heaven is false.
Be good and do good.

 

[BarneyFife]

And besides, it all just comes down to whether God said it or not. Right?

No. Because there are 3/4 million words in the average English Bible which evidently features division of truth that must be done rightly. There are enough profound paradoxes found in Scripture to keep the mind of a mega-genius busy for a million years.

Jesus' yoke, Jesus' burden, and they are truly light!

There's light and then there's weightless. No one seems to want to measure the weight or count the cost as the Master Teacher puts it.

Do you mean to ask, if there is a passage that demands we keep a commandment to remain saved?

No, I'm asking someone to produce a text that states as forcefully as the circumcision texts you gave that we should ignore those who would counsel us to refrain from murder, adultery, dishonor to parents, etc. I could save you some time.

 

[marks]

The heresy that all manner of evil will go to heaven is false.

I don't understand why you don't believe that God cleanses His children from evil. How can someone born of God be evil?

Much love!