Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[marks]

No. Because there are 3/4 million words in the average English Bible which evidently features division of truth that must be done rightly. There are enough profound paradoxes found in Scripture to keep the mind of a mega-genius busy for a million years.

There is definitely enough to keep me fascinated the remainder of my life, I feel confident of that!



But it really does say a certain thing, I think, and the paradoxes aren't really paradoxes when you search it out. Seriously, where others see paradox, I see harmony. When I see paradox, I just keep looking, and eventually I see harmony.

There's light and then there's weightless. No one seems to want to measure the weight or count the cost as the Master Teacher puts it.

And there's that that burden is, and what is it about it that is so light, not heavy?

What is the cost? That you are signing onto a life of obedience so you can make it to heaven at the end? That was the Law covenant.

We give Him all we are, and then spend the rest of our lives cooperating with God the best we can, as He brings His life into the way we live ours.

No, I'm asking someone to produce a text that states as forcefully as the circumcision texts you gave that we should ignore those who would counsel us to refrain from murder, adultery, dishonor to parents, etc. I could save you some time.

You can be circumcised if you want. But don't expect it to buy you righteousness. I know you don't think that way, just saying.

And we all know that when you love someone you won't murder them. But refraining from murder, again, won't buy you righteousness. There is no Scripture against doing what is good. But there is most certainly Scripture which teaches us that this will not replace or affect Jesus' righteousness given to us. Which is not given based on our works, or lack thereof. It's given because we've trusted Him.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

But it really does say a certain thing, I think, and the paradoxes aren't really paradoxes when you search it out. Seriously, where others see paradox, I see harmony. When I see paradox, I just keep looking, and eventually I see harmony.

You're talking about variance. A paradox isn't a paradox unless there's harmony underneath.

And there's that that burden is, and what is it about it that is so light, not heavy?

What is the cost? That you are signing onto a life of obedience so you can make it to heaven at the end? That was the Law covenant.

Is the glass half empty or half full?

We give Him all we are, and then spend the rest of our lives cooperating with God the best we can, as He brings His life into the way we live ours.

Amen!

You can be circumcised if you want. But don't expect it to buy you righteousness. I know you don't think that way, just saying.

Okay, so you're just saying. I don't know why, though. I have no affinity to circumcision.

And we all know that when you love someone you won't murder them.

Who's we? You think it's self-evident because you've been raised in a "civilized" nation." Tell a remote missionary that. Why don't most Christians keep the Sabbath? Aside from the devil's whisper campaign, it's not self-evident that we should.

But refraining from murder, again, won't buy you righteousness.

Amen!

There is no Scripture against doing what is good.

Do you find a Scripture against Sabbath-keeping that is as scathing as the circumcision examples?

But there is most certainly Scripture which teaches us that this will not replace or affect Jesus' righteousness given to us.

Which is not given based on our works, or lack thereof. It's given because we've trusted Him.

Amen!

You and Amadeus give me the most food for thought on this forum hands down. All due respect (and some is due, to be sure), I'm a little disappointed this round. You're not pulling punches, are you, my friend?

Let me ask you a question: If you had lived your entire life in an isolated country like Russia, and their custom (not civil law) was to keep the 7th day (Saturday--Subota in Russian) Sabbath holy (along with the other 9 commandments), do you think you'd be any different than the rest of the people?

 

[Grailhunter]

Wow......you just keep imploding and making things easier and easier for me as time goes by....trying to EARN Salvation , trying to JUSTIFY yourself before God and obtaining a

Christians do not justify themselves before God with obedience and good deeds....no one is implying this you are just making this up. Not that scriptures mean a thing to you.

James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."

Luke 6:46“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

John 14:23 "Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

Romans 6:16 "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Luke 11:28 "But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

1st Peter 1:14 "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,"

2nd Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,"

Romans 1:5 "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,"

Acts 5:29 "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."

1st John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

Matthew 7:14-20 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Particularly relevant to the OSAS heresy."

2nd Corinthians 2:9 "For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything."

John 15:10 "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love."

John 15:14 "You are my friends if you do what I command you."

Romans 12:2 "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Another scripture particularly relevant to the new age OSAS heresy.

Ephesians 6:6 "Not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,"

1st John 2:3-6 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

1st John 3:22 "And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him."

1st John 3:24 "Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."

1st John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing."

2nd Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Philippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,"

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Luke 6:46 "“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?"

Matthew 7:20-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So easy to prove you wrong with the Word of God....so obvious that you speak against the Word of God.

Obedience does not lead to salvation...those that believe in Christ are obedient.

PLEASE , PLEASE, PLEASE Newbies

How dare you speak to the newbies and try to damn the innocent!

As Paul said,we finish this Christian Walk the same way we started it—— FAITH! “From Faith to Faith” is how Paul put it......Did you get the Holy Spirit by being a “ good widdle boy”, or did you get it by Trusting God? Continue in the Way that you started....YOU provide the Faith and let God provide the Behavior as He changes your Heart from a Disobedient One into one that WANTS to please God....You can change the outward behavior that will please the self- Righteous Fruit Inspectors Of your Religious country club , but only God can Transform a Heart.....He will do it if you let Him.....it takes Faith....got any?

Again more false claims and accusations...the followers Christ do not think you are saved by obedience. But then again how could an actual believer of Christ, a follower of Christ speak against obeying Christ....Who would preach that obedience is such a little matter? By obedience we are known to be followers of Christ. And our allegiance is to who, if we denounce obedience and live according to the world of evildoers?

Sin and sin some more is a heresy. The belief that heaven will be full of evil is a heresy. OSAS is a heresy.

Be good and do good.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't understand why you don't believe that God cleanses His children from evil. How can someone born of God be evil?

I do understand and he does forgive us if we ask....but that is not a license to sin. Christ does not condone evil. Nor did Christ's sacrifice on the cross give every evildoer passage to heaven. What do you think hell is for. Those that obey go to heaven and evildoers go to hell. Why would a good person want to spend eternity in heaven full of evil? The OSAS heresy destroys people's lives, condones all manner of evil and lead people to hell. Why do you not understand that. Evildoers rewarded with heaven...absurd on all levels!

 

[BarneyFife]

Christians do not justify themselves before God with obedience and good deeds....no one is implying this you are just making this up. Not that scriptures mean a thing to you.

James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."

Luke 6:46“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

John 14:23 "Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

Romans 6:16 "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Luke 11:28 "But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

1st Peter 1:14 "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,"

2nd Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,"

Romans 1:5 "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,"

Acts 5:29 "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."

1st John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

Matthew 7:14-20 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Particularly relevant to the OSAS heresy."

2nd Corinthians 2:9 "For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything."

John 15:10 "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love."

John 15:14 "You are my friends if you do what I command you."

Romans 12:2 "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Another scripture particularly relevant to the new age OSAS heresy.

Ephesians 6:6 "Not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,"

1st John 2:3-6 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

1st John 3:22 "And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him."

1st John 3:24 "Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."

1st John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing."

2nd Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Philippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,"

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Luke 6:46 "“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?"

Matthew 7:20-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Don't forget Romans 2:13:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[BarneyFife]

Human bias sure does make for hard communication.

 

[marks]

You're talking about variance. A paradox isn't a paradox unless there's harmony underneath.

Would you post a paradox in the Bible? I'd love to look at one together.

Is the glass half empty or half full?

I'm not sure how that relates. Fill me up all the way till I'm overflowing, and still keep pouring, that's what I say!



I really like you, you know!

Who's we?

You and I and others on this thread. Yes, I could have been more clear.

Why don't most Christians keep the Sabbath?

I do my very best to keep the Sabbath in my complete reliance on the death and resurrection of Christ to reconcile me to God. I rest there.

Do you find a Scripture against Sabbath-keeping that is as scathing as the circumcision examples?

The Scriptures I know in this catagory aren't against the doing of them, rather, against relying on them for righteousness.

You and Amadeus give me the most food for thought on this forum hands down. All due respect (and some is due, to be sure), I'm a little disappointed this round. You're not pulling punches, are you, my friend?

See, I knew I liked you!

I do see myself swinging back and forth between stronger and softer presentation sometimes. The other day someone came back to me with a check on how I was acting, and that does tend to quiet me down for a bit. ( @I.O.U ~ I know you can't post here, just to give the shout out)

Let me ask you a question: If you had lived your entire life in an isolated country like Russia, and their custom (not civil law) was to keep the 7th day (Saturday--Subota in Russian) Sabbath holy (along with the other 9 commandments), do you think you'd be any different than the rest of the people?

How could I ever know that?

I can only surmise that if I were Spirit filled and avid for the Word, that perhaps I'd come to see that the Sabbath, as wonderful as a day of rest is, even so it only a shadow of Christ Himself, In Whom I find the true rest.

And maybe I'd keep the Sabbath according to whatever the Russian custom, and maybe I'd use that occasion to reflect on my freedom from the requirement of lifelong perfect obedience, and enjoy in my physical rest my libery in Christ.

In fact, you still must work on the Sabbath in certain instances. But there is no instance were you must work for the righteousness of Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The OSAS heresy destroys people's lives, condones all manner of evil and lead people to hell. Why do you not understand that.

I believe God in fact cleanses us from evil. We are both agreed, there will not be evildoers in heaven, or on the new earth.

I believe that God creates us new and righteous, and that He keeps us that way.

Sin lives in flesh, we live in Spirit. We are spiritually redeemed and made new. But physically we are still corrupted. We spend our lives being trained by God to have His righteous way of living replace our fleshy way of living, and at the end of our lives, He will have completed His process in us, having then redeemed our bodies in resurrection, forever putting sin behind us.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If so, I hope they will be BB's neighbors, not mine, lol.

If these types were in my neighborhood, I would give them the chance to hear the Gospel....it would be up to God to “ open their heart” to the receiving of it..... just as He did to “ Lydia, the Seller of Purple” and everybody else that ever got Saved— including YOU, if indeed, you are Saved.....

Many a prisoner in our Penitentiaries have “ seen the light” and got rescued and saved .....Murders, Rapists, molesters , etc.....perhaps even a DRUNK! Thank God that Jesus didn’t SNEER at Lost Sinners .....as some “ Superior” ones in here do....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This is essentially the definition of legalism. Your mainline denominations are chock full of these Easter and Christmas kind of Christians.

......so are many Forums...also Proud and Self- Righteous so- called “ Christians” seem to gravitate to these Forums.....they find it a great place to spread their Leaven, such as “Lucky Repentance”.....The very thing that Saves us—-GRACE—- is unknown in their False, Perverted “ Gospels”......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Also to mention Paul spoke of not frustrating God's grace,

Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

This is literally along the lines of repudiating His grace.

Much love!

God hates it when His Children Sin.....But I bet He LOVES it when they show that they have such strong faith in the strength of the Blood and what His Son accomplished that they approach God's Throne Of Grace with BOLDNESS! It’s Biblical.Its what I do.Some of you oughta try it.....of course, some of those with limited intelligence will say it’s just another opportunity to Sin and “ get away with it!”.... lol.....take your whining and complaining to God—— * HE* is the One that came up with this “ approaching with Boldness” remedy for Sin.....

Before you Legalists get your panties in a wad, none of this excludes the fact that you may be Chastised for your sins as a warning to others and for your own personal growth....

 

[marks]

HE* is the One that came up with this “ approaching with Boldness” remedy for Sin.....

Just so!

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Just so.

I'm not so quick to just give a pass to those who push it so hard.

Much love!

I see myself as God's “ Pit Bull” in the fight over Leaven and False Additions to Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace That cause Newbies and others to “ Fall From Grace” before their Christian Walk even gets started .....installing Fear and doubt whereas God want His Children to have ASSURANCE of their Salvation....

I am proud and happy and honored to be God’s Pit-Bull in this all- important Battle of Legalism vs. Grace....I Love it ....I Live and Breathe it .....God likes it .You know, it really *IS* “ Nothing But The Blood”—— wouldn’t you Hate to Find Yourself on the Wrong side Of “ THAT” Argument? I am not the only Pit Bull in these Forums, and I thank God for my fellow Leaven Haters.....God hates Leaven too...Many in here will find out someday just How MUCH God Hates it......sadly , it will be too late....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

BB, this makes no sense at all. "Nothing But The Blood" can't be 2 things. It's not logical.

It doesn't matter what I think.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)​

Jesus says the goal is perfection. I can't lower His standard to mine.

Were you serious these other times?:





<<<....Just as you do, Blind man.Who the Hell do you think you are fooling. Certainly not God....not even your fellow human beings .We just happen to know what it’s like to be human—- and being honest about it, you hypocrite! You ain’t nearly as “Holy” as you think you are, and you ain’t fooling ANYBODY.....you are laughable in your self “ preening”....>>>

<<<Sorry, Charlie, But The Song you sang like the hypocrite that you are had it right all along....it really is , “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”.... I certainly do not know everything , but I am Eternally Grateful That I do not find myself on the Wrong Side Of “ THAT” debate......>>>











There's plenty more but no need to be redundant here. By the way, Is all the vulgarity necessary?

Paul doesn't have a test. He defers to Jesus:

But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Romans 14:10)​

Couldn't find that. Found some other good stuff, though:

1 Corinthians 3
3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
​

Sounds like Christ is at the head of the "following" chain here.

So many basic errors are on display here, I don’t where to start—- so I won’t. I think I’ll get back to this blather and false Doctrine later when I have more time on my hands....it may take a while to straighten out this much Bad Teaching.....Presently, I am much too busy too Fool with this.....I have to rearrange my spice rack....lol....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Then I guess we're done. I will address the points in your posts for the sake of other readers. You don't need to bother reading any of my posts from here on out.

Morbid curiosity will probably hold sway and I will read your messages.....they MUST be refuted before Newbies get ruined by your back Door “ forget about Grace, it’s “ Lucky Repentance” That Truly Saves” False, Perverter “ Gospel”......

I think you’ve made some “ slip-ups” lately that show the man that you truly are.....just a Modern Day Pharisee”..... The Truth always has a way of coming out....

 

[Enoch111]

I think you’ve made some “ slip-ups” lately that show the man that you truly are.....just a Modern Day Pharisee”..... The Truth always has a way of coming out....

There's no need for such attacks. Just address the errors (if any) with Scripture. Threads do not need to devolve into personal attacks.

 

[Enoch111]

Before you Legalists get your panties in a wad, none of this excludes the fact that you may be Chastised for your sins as a warning to others and for your own personal growth....

Here's another glaring example of personal attacks.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This thinking completely ignores the lengthy passages of 'do this, don't do this' in scripture written by the followers of Jesus.

We SHOULD do this and we SHOULDN'T do that! Just not for SALVATION ! THAT is what I am forever Talking about ! Don't you “ GET” that? We are not SAVED by keeping rules, but only a fool would ignore all the things that the Bible tells you to do....it’s like “ God's Instruction Book” to live a happy, blessed life ——- it’s ALL for our own good.....Everything written is for our benefit but NOT necessarily everything pertains to Salvation—-THAT comes by Faith! NOT “rule keeping” ....

 

[Enoch111]

I do understand and he does forgive us if we ask....but that is not a license to sin.

Where have you seen marks promoting a license to sin?

 

[Grailhunter]

Where have you seen marks promoting a license to sin?

Oh that funny!
No he does not use the term license to sin.
Read his posts and ask him questions....no morals.