God, who is perfect, and has all knowledge and wisdom, concluded that I was worth getting nailed to a cross to save. God says I have incredible value. Every other human on the planet has the same value as me. That's how I see it.
Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?
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Oh this is simple....the phrase does not occur in the oldest texts that we have available. You found this in the King James Version... 1611 ad? They did not have the most reliable sources. It is not in most other translations...not even the New King James Version. There is a whole lot of that.
You are very valuable....why else would a God allow Himself to be nailed to cross for you, if He did not think you were valuable.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The great struggle of the believer is that of self condemnation, that of others and what the devil throws at you ‘you are not good enough, you are not good enough, you are not good enough’
At times it’s unrelenting.
Amazingly, God’s verdict however is, ‘you are my beloved child; you are loved so much you are worth giving my life for and I declare you a Princess of the Kingdom’
Sooo, who do we believe now? our accusing voices; the accusing voices of others and the Devil or out long suffering and loving God who has withheld nothing in order to convince us of his love for us?
The Creator, no less, dying for His creation. I think about how it must've felt having those iron spike pounded through the bones and flesh in His hands and feet, and I think I want courage more than anything else! To never cower when challenged over His name! To not even blink!
Alas! and Did My Savior Bleed | Isaac Watts
- Alas! and did my Savior bleed
And did my Sov’reign die?
Would He devote that sacred head
For such a worm as I? - Was it for crimes that I had done
He groaned upon the tree?
Amazing pity! grace unknown!
And love beyond degree! - Well might the sun in darkness hide
And shut his glories in,
When Christ, the mighty Maker died,
For man the creature’s sin. - Thus might I hide my blushing face
While His dear cross appears,
Dissolve my heart in thankfulness,
And melt my eyes to tears. - But drops of grief can ne’er repay
The debt of love I owe:
Here, Lord, I give myself away,
’Tis all that I can do.
- Refrain (Hudson):
At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light,
And the burden of my heart rolled away,
It was there by faith I received my sight,
And now I am happy all the day!
- Refrain (Hudson):
A God that did all that for you...no doubt.
Sometimes people just think wrong.
If you are a Christian, Satan has no voice.
Self condemnation...it is an issue...sometimes goes back to wrong thinking.
I can get into the effects of baptism.
And then on the other hand Christ....a God....went through an awful lot to forgive us....If He forgives us....what is left?
The day we are saved...the journey begins...our walk with Christ...we do the best we can...He handles the rest.
I'm forgiven...it is done! Period. End of discussion!
I'm in Christ, therefore there is no condemnation from Him, the Judge.
Perhaps from my own conscience, the enemy, others, bad pizza...but, it matters what He says.
Perhaps from my own conscience, the enemy, others, bad pizza...but, it matters what He says.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
well as you can see it's easier to get angry to the person who punch you in the face than to forgive him what's more you need not only to forgive him but to do good for him
and God knows it's hard to do that
that's probably why he said those things
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luke 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luke 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
and yes it's obviously easy to do evil or to sin than to do good or not to sin this is the proof of when doing sin is easy while doing the will of God is hard
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
but right don't try to be good since no one is good but God so if you try to be good aren't you just opposing God what you have to do is not to do good but to do the will of God
Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?
Regarding those who profess and claim to be believers or Christians, any difficulty or hardship has to do with their true state, whether they are true believers or not, or whether they have been created anew or not, or whether they have the Holy Spirit or not. But then, if they aren’t true believers at all, such difficulty may really or actually be not a difficulty to begin with. For the unregenerate man really does not delight in good and so does not really strive to do good.
Now with regards the true Christian, if there are those who find it hard to be good, I’d say that most do because they lack or have a wrong understanding of the truth. The truth will set them free regarding this. Among such truth they perhaps do not have knowledge and understanding of, is that they have the Holy Spirit in them that enables them and gives them power to do the good. And also, because they still are in the body of death, the flesh, where sin dwells. This makes the immature child of God most of the time feel it hard to do the good. Another perhaps is when he is still of the belief that the doing of the good is something that he does of his own power. That certainly would prove difficult for him. For it had been shown throughout biblical history that sin, that dwells in his corrupted flesh constantly tempts him not to do the good, that those who have not the Holy Spirit of God, ever fails to overcome it. This failure had been adequately demonstrated among Israel.
Tong
R4195
Regarding those who profess and claim to be believers or Christians, any difficulty or hardship has to do with their true state, whether they are true believers or not, or whether they have been created anew or not, or whether they have the Holy Spirit or not. But then, if they aren’t true believers at all, such difficulty may really or actually be not a difficulty to begin with. For the unregenerate man really does not delight in good and so does not really strive to do good.
Now with regards the true Christian, if there are those who find it hard to be good, I’d say that most do because they lack or have a wrong understanding of the truth. The truth will set them free regarding this. Among such truth they perhaps do not have knowledge and understanding of, is that they have the Holy Spirit in them that enables them and gives them power to do the good. And also, because they still are in the body of death, the flesh, where sin dwells. This makes the immature child of God most of the time feel it hard to do the good. Another perhaps is when he is still of the belief that the doing of the good is something that he does of his own power. That certainly would prove difficult for him. For it had been shown throughout biblical history that sin, that dwells in his corrupted flesh constantly tempts him not to do the good, that those who have not the Holy Spirit of God, ever fails to overcome it. This failure had been adequately demonstrated among Israel.
Tong
R4195
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Part of learning how to apply Christianity is to putting the "no one is good" thing in its place. No, we are not good like God. But there are a lot of good Christians and Christ expects you to be good. What would be the alternative! Ironic as it is the whole "no one is good" thing has been used by the most twisted people and cults to make you think that you are dirty filthy rags and dung in the ditch, and being good is impossible, so you might as well give up and believe that all evil is forgiven automatically and heaven is full of evildoers. No reason to attempt to be good and of good character is not the message of Christ and the Apostles. That attempting to be good is some how anti faith...comes from a twisted message.
Which leads to the study of the use of the word righteous in the Old and New Testaments. Which is interesting.
Now pacifism. The first Christians were Jewish Christians, making that group pacifists....that would be a chore.
Victory and I were discussing a verse earlier.
First Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
This verse and the turn the other cheek verse do not workout as a whole. They have a general meaning but not a literal meaning,
The verse on never eating meat again is a matter of consideration for others. Besides the fact that we know that Christians are carnivores, the meaning of the verse is definitely not literal and would not work in practice. For example, Paul goes to a banquet and one person he meets is a vegetarian and gets sick at the sight of meat. The next person he meets cannot stand vegetables. The next person he meets cannot stand fruits. The next person he meets does not like water...(I am one of those persons, by the way.) So if all that is rejected, nothing can be served at the banquet and Paul giving it all up, he would soon die. Be considerate of others is the message. You have to put scriptures in motion and in context to understand them.
The turn the other cheek scripture in context...is Christ...a Jew...talking to Jews, about the Jewish Law...life for a life...tooth for a tooth. The Jews had been beating their heads up against a Roman wall for a few centuries. Just a few years before Christ around 2000 of them had been crucified after one of their revolts. So the message...back off the violence thing, cause it ain't working! LOL An over all peaceful approach is much better but total pacifism does not work because sheep have a tendency to become wolf poop.
Still the message is valid. The concept of loving one another and slow to anger is not only religious but wise.
You made the statement...well as you can see it's easier to get angry to the person who punch you in the face than to forgive him what's more you need not only to forgive him but to do good for him.
So what is a punch in the face? Is it the end of the world? Should you over react? Should you hate? The overall wisdom in regard to sin is that....want...hate...laziness...and fear are the primary causes of sin. Not that the devil does not tempt you...but that is what he plays on. If someone hits you or does you wrong, your first response should not be retaliatory. Fear is another topic...some say that Yahweh detested cowardice so much that that is the why the word coward does not appear in the Old Testament and if you notice cowards will be among those are thrown into the lake of fire.
People have carried around resentments for years because they were done wrong. And that is the interesting side of forgiveness. Forgiveness is very much a part of Christianity. But forgiveness does not only help those that are forgiven. If you truly forgive, you release that resentment and relieve that burden on yourself. Resentment can turn to hate and that can be like a poison inside you that changes your character and colors your life.
On the other hand violence is never good....but it is not always wrong or evil. The defense of yourself, your family, or your country.
People that have pacifistic beliefs....is there a wrong in that? A religious belief of no aggression. Hey to each his own and in a social context it can function. Love one another and slow to anger is the better way. But in in the broadest context it does not work. In order to survive, pacifists have to live along side those that are willing to fight for right and wrong or they die. Whether it be the police or the military. The world is full of wolves and if the sheep will not fight they have to be protected...what is the alternative? I have met people that would rather die...they and their families...would rather die than harm another person. It is a valid religious belief...not mine.
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Hi @VictoryinJesus I think it can be useful to remember that Paul to the Romans speaks at the beginning and at the end of Epistle about 'obediece to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.
its a forum of religious views hence what is good and many definitions of what good is, and being good is. just as there are many views of what God is. things is where is God's view, or views and seeing He is the only that is good according to Jesus why is there an insistence to clarify good?
you can't be good, unless the Almighty declares you good. didn't Jesus point out that one should seek the approval of the Father and not the approval of men? but if one doesn't have a Father in heaven, then all one has is the approval of the world around them. therefore the game of being good for the approval of, and what is it that is agreed upon to be good.
VictoryinJesus
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If I understand you correctly it doesn’t end with Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:9-10 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
still practice seems relevant, as does exercised. Matthew 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. [26] But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; [27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: [28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
VictoryinJesus
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I could not have given a better response that sums it up. Thank you. Something maybe we all struggle with at times.
@VictoryinJesus I think Romans 8 which takes up various of the themes inherent in the Epistle as a whole, seems to meld them together wonderfully.
Over the years I have found myself quoting from it again and again.
This is a very simple message that runs through the whole new testament. Be good and do good...It does not matter it is in word or example...Christ, Paul, John, and Peter...be good and do good...no one is preaching to be bad and do bad...just read.
Ahh ya...I totally reject Calvinism. We can be perfected by Christ before God the Father but we told throughout the New Testament to be good and do good.
Obeying Christ has nothing to do with the approval of men. How many dozen of scriptures talk about obeying Christ.
The Bible does not speak of obedience as a game or seeking the approval of men...least as it is today to conform to the morals of the world....so very sad that there are Christians that speak against being good and doing good.
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