Sorry, but you're just making stuff up now. No where in scripture does Jesus say that "Jehovah knew the day and hour". Read the passage again slowly. Jesus always refers to God as the Father, not as Jehovah. You're trying to make scripture conform to your belief rather than conforming your belief to scripture, a common error referred to as isogesis.
Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well three online Greek bibles, Zodhiates Greek/English NT all have Deos in the Greek. Some have He, some- who, some god. all three are correct based on the rest of Scripture.
As for those Scholares you mention- I don't know- you will have to ask them.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well that is your privilege. I do not know what you accept about teh person of jesus, but I agree with Gabriel in his announcement- He shall be called "Emmanuel" which means god is with us. Jesus was true God and true man though I cannot fully understand it.
Nor do I fully understand it.
Since I still live for God by faith, even though I believe that I have some knowledge, I also believe that only God can separate the one [faith] from the other [knowledge] correctly in every case.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well Jesus has always existed as God. He has always had the same divine nature as His Fatrher, He didn't earn it nor was it given to Him for good deeds or whatever you may think. We PARTAKE in the divine nature, Jesus is divine inherently.
Jesus is not part of God the Father. He is God with hIS fATHER. Jesus is not the Father nor is His position in the Triunity of God equal to the Father Jesus is subordinate to His Father, but that does not make Him any less divine than His Father any more than the fact that my children are subordinate to me make them any less human than me!
I have a wife and six children- We are seven individuals, but we make up one family.
In God there is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and these three individuals make up the one God of the Bible. The Elohim (plural), The Adonai (plural) etec.etc.
Hello @Robert Gwin,
I made no mention of Satan in my post: but agree that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is Almighty God, and able to save to the uttermost those who come unto Him for salvation, through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice of His Beloved Son.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit Thou at my right hand,
until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool. '
(Psalm 110:1)
Hello @Robert Gwin,
The word of God uses many names when referring to God, it all depends on the context, the circumstance in which reference to Him is being made. I listed them in a recent post, and you responded to that, so you must know this to be true. I placed the word, 'Jehovah' in brackets beside the first use of Lord in Psalm 110:1, because that is the Hebrew word that it was translated from; and placed in brackets against the following one, the word, 'Adon', for that was the Hebrew word from which that word was translated. I am fully aware that the latter word 'Lord' (Adon) refers to the Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) in this context. In Psalm 110:1, the context concerns the millennial reign of the Messiah, hence the name 'Adon' is ascribed to Him: for it is used in relation to God as ruler in the earth.
My copy of the KJV uses various letter types to define the names used of God, and the marginal notes give the name and the reason for it's use. There has been no alteration made as you suggest.
In Christ Jesus
The risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
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tigger 2
Well-Known Member
There is only one personal name of God which is used many thousands of times in the OT Hebrew texts: YHWH ("Jehovah" or "Yahweh"). All other "names" are titles or descriptions. Even though the KJV has deleted that name (Jehovah) many thousands of times and in nearly all cases replaced it with another word (not a translation - a replacement) "LORD" or "GOD," nevertheless, it still makes the matter clear.
Psalm 83:18 King James Version:
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.
“Jehovah, the special and significant name (not merely an appellative title such as Lord) by which God revealed himself to the ancient Hebrews” - p. 330, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House Publ., 1982.
Psalm 83:18 King James Version:
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.
“Jehovah, the special and significant name (not merely an appellative title such as Lord) by which God revealed himself to the ancient Hebrews” - p. 330, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House Publ., 1982.
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Erroneous conclusions.
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Jesus is the glory of God and the only God we can ever know until the beginning of the new creation.
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. Psalm 2:12
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12
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The name Jehovah doesn't exist in scripture except in some modern translations. The original language only gives His covenant name in 4 consonants, known as the tetragrammaton, and those letters are Yod, He, Vaw, He.
Jews stopped pronouncing the name out loud thousands of years ago to avoid blasphemy. All the names of God in scripture are descriptive of who He is or what He does.
I've only heard one born again Jewish teacher pronounce the name on the radio and he was taken off the air. When he returned he started using the modern scholars version, Yahweh, because its inoffensive to the Jews, but Yah havah was the censored name, not Jehovah, and Yah havah actually means Yah the life giver, just as Yah shua means Yah our savior. Biblical names all have meaning, but Jehovah has no meaning. You guys have missed the mark by a mile.
Jews stopped pronouncing the name out loud thousands of years ago to avoid blasphemy. All the names of God in scripture are descriptive of who He is or what He does.
I've only heard one born again Jewish teacher pronounce the name on the radio and he was taken off the air. When he returned he started using the modern scholars version, Yahweh, because its inoffensive to the Jews, but Yah havah was the censored name, not Jehovah, and Yah havah actually means Yah the life giver, just as Yah shua means Yah our savior. Biblical names all have meaning, but Jehovah has no meaning. You guys have missed the mark by a mile.
The New World translation is satanic and no Christian should ever read it.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Show us the 5 most "satanic" major scriptures you are aware of in the NWT. General statements which themselves demonize should be accompanied with specific examples and honest evidence.
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Sorry, I burned the only copy I had after reading the 1st chapter of John's gospel. The New World Translation was created specifically to deny the deity of Christ, which is to say that it's authors were antichrist and anathema Maranatha (accursed at His coming). All who preach from it, preach a false gospel and are anathema Maranatha.
Years ago I invited some JW missionaries into my home to share the true gospel with them and successfully refuted all their claims, so they left and sent others who were more experienced. I invited them in also and refuted all their spurious claims directly from scripture and gave them the simple truth of the gospel, but they too left to seek the advice of their elders. Finally a third group which included elders came to my door and the Holy Spirit brought to mind this passage:
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
If the Holy Spirit says that someone is bringing a false gospel, then they're bringing a false gospel. Consequently I apologized to those elders but told them I could not invite them in because their doctrine was anathema Maranatha.
They never returned after that. Praise the Lord, revealer of secrets and the hidden councils of the heart. Amen and Amen.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
So you can call it "satanic" and won't provide any specific examples or honest evidence. This is not how anyone who is to be considered honest should act. Sad.
I can say with all honesty that nearly all Bible translations have dishonestly translated in nearly 6000 places [YHWH]. The NWT (and ASV) are then, way ahead of these translations in that one area alone - ("satanic?").
There are a number which have also mistranslated 1 Timothy 3:16. ("satanic?")
I can say with all honesty that nearly all Bible translations have dishonestly translated in nearly 6000 places [YHWH]. The NWT (and ASV) are then, way ahead of these translations in that one area alone - ("satanic?").
There are a number which have also mistranslated 1 Timothy 3:16. ("satanic?")
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The Satanic translation shows itself for what it is from the beginning of Genesis and the beginning of John with "active force" for Spirit of God (a deliberate mistranslation) and "a god" for "was God." The people who produced it were not even Christians so I am not surprised that it is that way.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Not ignoring you, i was away on trip, just returned - will answer your Q's later - thank you
So now you also blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Good luck with that. Turn to Christ and repent of your blasphemies and you can still be saved. I was lead to Christ by my brother in the Lord, Jerome, who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness but delivered from destruction by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You don't have to be cast into the outer darkness, but may know Him personally and receive His Spirit for the asking. Just confess that He is Lord and risen from the dead, then pray to receive His Spirit and you too can receive eternal life in Him to the glory of God the Father. Amen.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
post 315:
"The Satanic translation shows itself for what it is from the beginning of Genesis and the beginning of John with "active force" for Spirit of God (a deliberate mistranslation) and "a god" for "was God." The people who produced it were not even Christians so I am not surprised that it is that way."
......................
NWT - Gen. 1:2 "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force* was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
* Or "God's spirit." The Hebrew word ruach here, besides being many times translated "spirit," is also many times "wind" or other ways to denote an invisible active force.
"The Spirit of God, therefore, as based upon the idea of the ruach or breath of man, originally stood for the energy or power of God...." - Vol. 3, p. 1406, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Eerdmans Publ., 1984.
NRSV Gen. 1:2 The earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God* swept over the face of he waters.
*Or while the spirit of God or while a mighty wind
NAB Gen. 1:2 The earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.
NJB Gen. 1:2 …. with a divine wind sweeping over the waters.
NABRE Gen. 1:2 and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—
NEB and the earth was without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters.
Notice that the NWT footnote for ruach in Gen. 1:2 explains it quite well and gives the alternate "God's spirit." Other translations using "wind," for example, do not always give a footnote.
So how is the NWT more "satanic" than the other respected Bibles listed? Why do you single out the NWT as being "a deliberate mistranslation"?
As for John 1:1c ("a god"), I spent years on this single scripture and I can attest to the fact, through my own in-depth research into John's grammar and usage, that "a god" is definitely the most honest translation of this.
I have posted links to my studies of this many times and I have even posted the shortest such studies, but no one has ever made an adequate examination or answer to the facts. Sooo disappointing, but not unexpected.
For the easiest of my John 1:1c studies, go back to posts #134-137, 141.
"The Satanic translation shows itself for what it is from the beginning of Genesis and the beginning of John with "active force" for Spirit of God (a deliberate mistranslation) and "a god" for "was God." The people who produced it were not even Christians so I am not surprised that it is that way."
......................
NWT - Gen. 1:2 "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force* was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
* Or "God's spirit." The Hebrew word ruach here, besides being many times translated "spirit," is also many times "wind" or other ways to denote an invisible active force.
"The Spirit of God, therefore, as based upon the idea of the ruach or breath of man, originally stood for the energy or power of God...." - Vol. 3, p. 1406, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Eerdmans Publ., 1984.
NRSV Gen. 1:2 The earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God* swept over the face of he waters.
*Or while the spirit of God or while a mighty wind
NAB Gen. 1:2 The earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.
NJB Gen. 1:2 …. with a divine wind sweeping over the waters.
NABRE Gen. 1:2 and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—
NEB and the earth was without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters.
Notice that the NWT footnote for ruach in Gen. 1:2 explains it quite well and gives the alternate "God's spirit." Other translations using "wind," for example, do not always give a footnote.
So how is the NWT more "satanic" than the other respected Bibles listed? Why do you single out the NWT as being "a deliberate mistranslation"?
As for John 1:1c ("a god"), I spent years on this single scripture and I can attest to the fact, through my own in-depth research into John's grammar and usage, that "a god" is definitely the most honest translation of this.
I have posted links to my studies of this many times and I have even posted the shortest such studies, but no one has ever made an adequate examination or answer to the facts. Sooo disappointing, but not unexpected.
For the easiest of my John 1:1c studies, go back to posts #134-137, 141.
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Spirit/wind/breath are all equivalent words for the most part. Inspiration, inbreathing, respiration, the idea of blowing, wind, etc. So no, those translations are all well and good. NWT remains having a deliberate mistranslation and I am fully aware of the footnote.
Now as for your many assertions about the Greek of John 1:1 that will require further study from me, and a perusal of the earliest native Greek-speaking commentators we have who wrote on this verse to see how they read it for more information, as I am naturally suspicious of many claims made about the intricacies and grammar of a language not only that I do not speak but which is dead.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Can the Eternal God accept the words of sinful man?
All religions have error in them - only the Word of God is accepted by God.
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