I have a question that remains unanswered:

[bbyrd009]

One possible explanation among others. Many people say "I am" but are not declaring themselves to be God. Jesus said a few passages earlier in John 8:54 that if he were to glorify himself it would meaning nothing. Here you are saying Jesus statement means everything, glorifying himself in the highest possible way.

Aunty Jane delved into the Greek and explained how the proper interpretation in context is "I was" but that does not fit the trinitarian doctrine.

Nowhere in Scripture is "I am" established as being some code name for God. Given that Jesus pre-existed Abraham is still not proof that Jesus is God or claiming to be God. Compare and contrast how explicit Jesus can be in claiming not to be God using "I am" but still condemned. Why is this violent response to Jesus' admission dismissed where there is no ambiguity to what he is admitting? Dualism. Jesus is not calling himself God but God's Anointed.

High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One?

Jesus: 62 I am.
Mark 14:61-62

i note that He refers to Himself as “son of man” even in that passage

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Didn't really think you would believe it Ron, but I do. Any idea what the term begotten means sir?

Yes I do. Jesus the man is the only human begotten of God. Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, so when the man Jesus was born, He became the only begotten son of God. but prior to His incarnation He existed as yahweh, the redeemer of Israel and Yahweh of Hosts. He existed as the word of god, and existed as Elohim with His Father. Proof?

John 1:3
King James Version

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Genesis 1
King James Version

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:26-27
King James Version

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Jesus made ALL things (not all other things as the NWT lies) and God made all things!

John 1:1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

John 5:23
King James Version

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

honour:

• Lexicon :: Strong's G5091 - timaō
  
  
  
  τιμάω
  
  Vine's Expository Dictionary: honour (19x), value (2x).
  Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to estimate, fix the value
     
     1. for the value of something belonging to one's self
        
  2. to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate
     
• Strong’s Definitions G5093; to prize, i.e. fix a valuation upon; by implication, to revere:—honour, value.
  

even:


καθώς
Transliteration
kathōs (Key)
Pronunciation
kath-oce'

adverb
Root Word (Etymology)
From κατά (G2596) and ὡς (G5613)
Greek Inflections of καθώς Καθὼς — 2x
καθὼς — 170x
καθώς — 10x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: as (138x), even as (36x), according as (4x), when (1x), according to (1x), how (1x), as well as (with G2532) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G2596 and G5613; just (or inasmuch) as, that:—according to, (according, even) as, how, when.

As long as you refuse to value the son in the same way as teh Father (as Yahweh) you do not have the Father as well!

 

[BarneyFife]

If we ask and keep on asking Him, will He not both make us hungry and thirsty for the right things and feed us?

Oh, certainly! But I'll be the first to admit that my affections are not fixed upon Him as they should be.

But I don't wish to highjack the thread. Maybe I'll start another one.

 

[BarneyFife]

Luke 5
21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? 22But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? 23Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wrangler said: ↑
One possible explanation among others. Many people say "I am" but are not declaring themselves to be God. Jesus said a few passages earlier in John 8:54 that if he were to glorify himself it would meaning nothing. Here you are saying Jesus statement means everything, glorifying himself in the highest possible way.

Aunty Jane delved into the Greek and explained how the proper interpretation in context is "I was" but that does not fit the trinitarian doctrine.

Nowhere in Scripture is "I am" established as being some code name for God. Given that Jesus pre-existed Abraham is still not proof that Jesus is God or claiming to be God. Compare and contrast how explicit Jesus can be in claiming not to be God using "I am" but still condemned. Why is this violent response to Jesus' admission dismissed where there is no ambiguity to what he is admitting? Dualism. Jesus is not calling himself God but God's Anointed.

Well all mens explanation mean little.

When Jesus declared that before Abraham was "Iam", the Pharisees certainly knew what He was saying of HImself

John 8:53-59
King James Version

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


did you ever bother to stop and think even one second how strange that remark is? If Jesus was simply referring that He existed before Abraham ,as He is the creator of human grammar and knows it better than us, He should have said, "Before Abraham was, I already existed". But no He used in the greek teh present indicative "ego eimi" and in Hebrew "Yah". that is wrong grammatically unless jesus was convey8ing something more (as He was) than just his prior existence.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus the man is the only human begotten of God

hmm, do you have a v in this context? ty
wadr i think you added “human?”
i mean He is calling Himself “son of man” after all?

 

[BarneyFife]

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His Spirit.

His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. It cannot die.

Only one of the roughly 30 English translations on Biblehub.com capitalizes the word "spirit" in this verse, and it is not worded as you have quoted it.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But Yeshua cried again with a loud voice, and his Spirit departed.

It seems likely that you provided the capitalization yourself.

The verse does not refer to the Holy Spirit at all.


When man had been created from the dust, what did he become?
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7.

To what other order of beings is the term soul applied?
"And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep." Num. 31:28.

Is the term "living souls" applied to anything besides man and beast?
"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." Rev. 16:3.

Can a soul suffer thirst?
"As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country." Prov. 25:25.

May it also suffer hunger?
"Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger." Prov. 19:15.

Is it capable of eating?
"But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the Lord, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people." Lev. 7:20.

Can it be injured?
"And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword." Joshua 11:11.

Can the soul die?
"Behold, all souls are Mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Eze. 18:4.

What is said of the soul of Christ?
"Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He hath poured out His soul unto death." Isa. 53:12.

What becomes of the soul at death?
"What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?" Ps. 89:48.

Where did Christ's soul go at His death?
"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell [hades], neither His flesh did see corruption." Acts 2:31.
NOTE: His soul went into the grave, but was not left there, He being raised on the third day.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The pre-incarnate Christ is called "the Angel of the LORD" in the Old Testament, and He is recognized and worshipped as God. And it is He who appeared to Moses at the burning bush, where He was called "the LORD" (Yahweh) and also "God" (Elohim):

EXODUS 3: THE ANGEL OF THE LORD IS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
8And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

As we can see, "this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" is a reference to "I AM THAT I AM" or "I AM" [the personal name of Jehovah (Yahweh)]. This speaks of the self-existence of God from eternity.

Now when we turn to the New Testament, Jesus of Nazareth calls Himself "I AM" and tells the unbelieving Jews that if they do not believe that He is "I AM" they will die in their sins.

JOHN 8: JESUS DECLARES THAT HE IS "I AM"
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. [Note: the KJV tranlators failed to capitalize "I AM"].
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What do we note here? (1) Jesus said that He has existed BEFORE Abraham. How could that be unless He is God. When He said "verily, verily" He meant "without the shadow of a doubt". (2) Jesus said that He is "I AM". The Jews knew from their reading of the Torah that "I AM" is the name of Almighty God. But they refused to believe Jesus. Therefore they took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy.

Before this, here is what Jesus said about Himself in verse 24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins.

Please note that "he" is in italics because the translators mistakenly inserted it there. They also failed to capitalize "I AM". Had they done so, the meaning of that statement would have been very clear. "If you do not believe that I AM (God), your will die in your sins".

Inspiring! Thank you!

 

[amigo de christo]

Perhaps at the time Jesus said that, God "The Father" did not yet speak the time or hour of His return? The "Word of God"?

The Godhead can be hard on some folks . But as you know my dear sister , GOD and HIS WORD cannot be seperated .
GOD IS HIS WORD . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED . GOD has not yet SPOKEN the WORD concering THE SECOND COMING
but rest assured the moment HE DOES HIS WORD COMES FORTH FROM HIM and shall tread the winepress and rescue the lambs .
YOUR RIGHT . THE FATHER HAS NOT YET SPOKEN THAT WORD . AND JESUS IS THE WORD .
The WORD is GODS OWN ESSENCE . GOD IS HIS WORD . IT says that Christ created all things
HE DID , and YET GOD CREATED ALL THINGS . HOW , HE SPEAKS and IT IS . Exactly SISTER .
JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD . Now let the KING be praised .
This is why JESUS could say , The FATHER IS GREATER THAN I , I CAME FORTH OF THE FATHER .
YET GOD IS HIS WORD . Your right sister . KNOWN TO GOD ALONE is that DAY
and when HE SPEAKS , THE WORD SHALL COME TO POUR DOWN THE WRATH OF GOD . ALL JUDGMENT is comitted unto the SON .
JESUS told them , THINK not that i accuse you , Moses shall accuse you ,
and yet later HE says , MY WORDS SHALL BE YOUR JUDGE ON THE LAST DAY .
As i hear i speak . JESUS TRULY IS THE WORD OF GOD that became flesh . AND GOD TRULY IS HIS OWN WORD .
Its not like some other kind of essence comes forth from GOD . ITS HIS OWN ESSENCE and it comes forth WHEN HE SPEAKETH .
JESUS is the glorious WORD of GOD . But the God head is hard to fully figure out . Most folks fight and fight over something
they dont truly even understand . I say we say it like JOHN wrote it .
IN the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD .
That should be simple enough .

 

[David in NJ]

Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

This is for children only - adults have not been unable to understand and can cause blindness and hardening of the arteries.

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
Matt 18: 1-5

 

[David in NJ]

While the Bible identifies God as the Father many, MANY times, never does it identify God, The Holy Spirit or God, the Son. This is the dead giveaway destroying trinitarianism.

Once again you are using carnal- sin altered logic - you cannot see the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit through logic.

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

[Wrangler]

Once again you are using carnal- sin altered logic - you cannot see the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit through logic.

Once again, you are asserting through mysticism trinitarianism is spiritually valid.

 

[David in NJ]

Trust me, I often have to make sure I understand these things correctly. I struggle to conceive of them and find myself having to revisit the information often to make sure I haven't misunderstood.

I truly only want to be right with God and His Word. If I am wrong on any of it, I pray for correction.

This is the best that I can make of all the scripture on the subject.

God bless us all in our learning and understanding.

The best way and the only way to understand the deep things of God is threefold.
1.) Washed in the Blood of the Lamb and Born Again of the Spirit of God
2.) Baptized in the Holy Spirt - the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive.
3.) Most christians completely miss this one, even though it is a Eternal Commandment from Genesis to Revelation.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. - Proverbs 30: 5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22: 18-19

 

[David in NJ]

Once again, you are asserting through mysticism trinitarianism is spiritually valid.

Once again you keep going back to your unrepentant logic and making false statements to cover your unbelief.

 

[Nancy]

The Godhead can be hard on some folks . But as you know my dear sister , GOD and HIS WORD cannot be seperated .
GOD IS HIS WORD . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED . GOD has not yet SPOKEN the WORD concering THE SECOND COMING
but rest assured the moment HE DOES HIS WORD COMES FORTH FROM HIM and shall tread the winepress and rescue the lambs .
YOUR RIGHT . THE FATHER HAS NOT YET SPOKEN THAT WORD . AND JESUS IS THE WORD .
The WORD is GODS OWN ESSENCE . GOD IS HIS WORD . IT says that Christ created all things
HE DID , and YET GOD CREATED ALL THINGS . HOW , HE SPEAKS and IT IS . Exactly SISTER .
JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD . Now let the KING be praised .
This is why JESUS could say , The FATHER IS GREATER THAN I , I CAME FORTH OF THE FATHER .
YET GOD IS HIS WORD . Your right sister . KNOWN TO GOD ALONE is that DAY
and when HE SPEAKS , THE WORD SHALL COME TO POUR DOWN THE WRATH OF GOD . ALL JUDGMENT is comitted unto the SON .
JESUS told them , THINK not that i accuse you , Moses shall accuse you ,
and yet later HE says , MY WORDS SHALL BE YOUR JUDGE ON THE LAST DAY .
As i hear i speak . JESUS TRULY IS THE WORD OF GOD that became flesh . AND GOD TRULY IS HIS OWN WORD .
Its not like some other kind of essence comes forth from GOD . ITS HIS OWN ESSENCE and it comes forth WHEN HE SPEAKETH .
JESUS is the glorious WORD of GOD . But the God head is hard to fully figure out . Most folks fight and fight over something
they dont truly even understand . I say we say it like JOHN wrote it .
IN the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD .
That should be simple enough .

"This is why JESUS could say , The FATHER IS GREATER THAN I , I CAME FORTH OF THE FATHER ."

Amen brother and, this could also have other implications to assumed contradictions in the bible. Key word there is "could"...? Dunno but I'm with you Amigo, WHAT JOHN SAID! lol...and we will be hearing those very words tonight with a beloved sister who heard them first
Enjoy your "Bible On Tape"!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus, in response to the Pharisees’ question “Who do you think you are? said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham! I tell you the truth Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds” (John 8:56–59). The violent response of the Jews to Jesus’ “I AM” statement indicates they clearly understood what He was declaring—that He was the eternal God incarnate. Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14."

Aunty Jane delved into the Greek and explained how the proper interpretation in context is "I was" but that does not fit the trinitarian doctrine.

Just to reiterate....
John 8:58.....if you understand that God’s name never meant “I Am” in the first place, this allows us to see what Jesus really said to his accusers.

The Jewish Tanakh gives the meaning of God’s name (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) as “I Wii Be What I Will Be”.
"14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

It is not a statement of God’s existence, but a statement of his intention to “BE” whatever he needs to be, in order for his will to be carried out.
So John 8:58 has no connection at all to Exodus 3:13-15.

In context, John 8:56-58 says....
"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)

You can see that Jesus was answering a question about his age, and replied that he “was” in existence before Abraham was even born. The “I am” there should be “I was” because the present tense makes no sense in that statement.

Jesus said “I am” on many occasions identifying different aspects of his work on earth, but none of them are a reference back to Exodus 3:14.
John 6:35, 41. John 14:2, 4.
John 14:28...
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
How can the Father be greater than a part of his equal self?

Things aren't always what they seem....research is necessary.

 

[David in NJ]

Just to reiterate....
John 8:58.....if you understand that God’s name never meant “I Am” in the first place, this allows us to see what Jesus really said to his accusers.

The Jewish Tanakh gives the meaning of God’s name (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) as “I Wii Be What I Will Be”.
"14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

It is not a statement of God’s existence, but a statement of his intention to “BE” whatever he needs to be, in order for his will to be carried out.
So John 8:58 has no connection at all to Exodus 3:13-15.

In context, John 8:56-58 says....
"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)

You can see that Jesus was answering a question about his age, and replied that he “was” in existence before Abraham was even born. The “I am” there should be “I was” because the present tense makes no sense in that statement.

Jesus said “I am” on many occasions identifying different aspects of his work on earth, but none of them are a reference back to Exodus 3:14.
John 6:35, 41. John 14:2, 4.
John 14:28...
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
How can the Father be greater than a part of his equal self?

Things aren't always what they seem....research is necessary.

Because we do not fully understand what the relationship is between the Elohim Father Elohim Son and Elohim Holy Spirit.

Elohim does not expect us to fully understand but to have faith in His Word.
In the beginning God = In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh.

When Jesus said the Father is greater the I, He said it as the son of man - the Servant of God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Just to reiterate....
John 8:58.....if you understand that God’s name never meant “I Am” in the first place, this allows us to see what Jesus really said to his accusers.

The Jewish Tanakh gives the meaning of God’s name (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) as “I Wii Be What I Will Be”.
"14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

It is not a statement of God’s existence, but a statement of his intention to “BE” whatever he needs to be, in order for his will to be carried out.
So John 8:58 has no connection at all to Exodus 3:13-15.

In context, John 8:56-58 says....
"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)

You can see that Jesus was answering a question about his age, and replied that he “was” in existence before Abraham was even born. The “I am” there should be “I was” because the present tense makes no sense in that statement.

Jesus said “I am” on many occasions identifying different aspects of his work on earth, but none of them are a reference back to Exodus 3:14.
John 6:35, 41. John 14:2, 4.
John 14:28...
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
How can the Father be greater than a part of his equal self?

Things aren't always what they seem....research is necessary.

In Revelation Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega....the Almighty
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
— Revelation 1:8 (KJV)
That is Jesus outright admitting He is the Almighty God...the Alpha and Omega...the beginning...(can't get any sooner than the beginning of all things) and the end...(can't get any farther than the end of all things)

 

[Nancy]

Just to reiterate....
John 8:58.....if you understand that God’s name never meant “I Am” in the first place, this allows us to see what Jesus really said to his accusers.

The Jewish Tanakh gives the meaning of God’s name (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) as “I Wii Be What I Will Be”.
"14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

It is not a statement of God’s existence, but a statement of his intention to “BE” whatever he needs to be, in order for his will to be carried out.
So John 8:58 has no connection at all to Exodus 3:13-15.

In context, John 8:56-58 says....
"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)

You can see that Jesus was answering a question about his age, and replied that he “was” in existence before Abraham was even born. The “I am” there should be “I was” because the present tense makes no sense in that statement.

Jesus said “I am” on many occasions identifying different aspects of his work on earth, but none of them are a reference back to Exodus 3:14.
John 6:35, 41. John 14:2, 4.
John 14:28...
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
How can the Father be greater than a part of his equal self?

Things aren't always what they seem....research is necessary.

Hello @Aunty Jane and welcome to C.B.
I like that interpretation: "I Will Be What I Will Be" and I "Was...before Abraham" definitely makes more sense and fits well.
HE is all in all...who are we to "Name" Him?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Because we do not fully understand what the relationship is between the Elohim Father Elohim Son and Elohim Holy Spirit.

Could I trouble you for a scriptural reference to what you just called God? Which in English is "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit"....you see, I can find "God the Father", no problem....but try as I might I cannot find a single place where Jesus claimed to be "God the Son".....all I can find is Jesus saying that he is "the Son of God"....so not the same thing at all. And nowhere can I find anyone calling the Holy Spirit "God". I can find "God's Spirit", but not "God the Spirit"...again not the same at all. So can you help me out here?
Where is a direct quote from either Jesus or God himself stating that the "Son" and the "Holy Spirit" are both "Almighty God"?
That would end this argument once and for all.

Elohim does not expect us to fully understand but to have faith in His Word.

I do, that is why it troubles me to have so many people believe something the Bible does not say.

In the beginning God = In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh.

Yep..."in the beginning"...I have to ask, "the beginning" of what? The eternal Father had no beginning.
And there we have "the Word" being "with God"...so how can the Word be "with God" and at the same time "BE" God?

And where is the third person? Missing as usual. Don't we need him? (John 17:3)

Is it a mystery? or is it a lie? I'll go for the latter based on my own study and research of the scriptures which I did outside of Christendom and her misleading doctrines.

Jesus was sent to "ransom" the human race, so what is a ransom? Isn't it a set amount demanded to get someone out of captivity? If the ransom demanded $50,000 and you paid $50 quadrillion instead, would that make sense to you?

When Jesus was sent to pay the price of Adam's sin, all he needed to be was sinless....atonement (at-one-ment) means "like for like", so he did not need to be God in order to do that. He is called "the last Adam" because his life was the equivalent of the first Adam....a perfect, sinless human being.
God transferred the life of his son from heaven, into the womb of a Jewish virgin so that the Redeemer would be born sinless.
He was also going to offer up his life in order to make the payment. So, let me ask you...can mere humans kill God? God is immortal and therefore cannot die. If Jesus was God then he too would have been immortal, and if he did not really die, then the ransom is not paid and we are doomed to remain in sin forever.
Your trinity complicates everything...it is illogical and completely unscriptural.

When Jesus said the Father is greater the I, He said it as the son of man - the Servant of God.

So God became his own servant?

How come then that Jesus called his Father "my God" even after he returned to heaven.....(Revelation 3:12) Please explain...

 

[GEN2REV]

Where is a direct quote from either Jesus or God himself stating that the "Son" and the "holy Spirit" are both "Almighty God"?
That would end this argument once and for all.

Well, Hallelujah! Happy to serve that up for ya and bury this long-dead horse.

Since the Bible IS The Word of God and God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), and it makes very clear that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is both God and Jesus, that sufficiently fills your order.

"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word WAS God. ... And The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, ... the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace (grace is forgiveness - only God can forgive) and Truth (Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.)"
John 1:1, 14

" ... if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. ... if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."
Romans 8:9

There ya go. Hot, fresh and made to order. Straight from the mouth of God AND Jesus Christ who IS The Word.