I have a question that remains unanswered:

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Robert Gwin

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?
 
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GEN2REV

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?
First, you might specify by asking 'Is Jesus God the Father?' Trinitarians will simply say that Jesus is God because the Father, Son and HG are ALL God.

While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come. It is only after He has ascended that He can then, again, reunite with the Father and know all things to come.

Remember that God the Father remained outside of time and thus was capable of being two places at once. A difficult concept for us to fathom. The Father was outside of physical time and space before, during and after indwelling the physical body of Christ. He is who Christ prayed to as an example to us of how to live righteously in God's Way.

The Matthew 10:40 verse shows Jesus referring to it as HIS right hand. In many other verses, Jesus is referred to AS God's right hand. The verse also strongly implies Him, Jesus, seated on THE throne.

When John sees his vision in Revelation, he sees only ONE in heaven upon the throne.
" ... behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne." Revelation 4:2
What happened to Jesus? Is He no longer significant? On the mighty contrary.

Who sits on a throne? A king - not a prince.
If Jesus (the prince/the Son) has become the king, where has the Father gone?

Is it called the Wrath of Jesus, or the Wrath of God? Then why do we see Jesus delivering this Wrath?
"And I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (the Father is often referred to in scripture as being Faithful to all His promises and Jesus is the Truth), and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. ... and His name is called the Word of God.(Jesus per John 1:1, 14)"
Revelation 19:11,13
"And (all) the armies which were in heaven followed Him (Jesus is the Lord of Hosts [angel armies]) ... and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and Wrath of Almighty God (the Father). And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (the Father/Jesus)
Revelation 19:14-16

There are countless other verses all throughout the Bible that use the same descriptions for the Father as for Jesus, and the same duties and actions for both, etc.

Another contrast of note is that many pagan religions over the millennia have held and worshiped multiple deities as their gods. Christianity is all about ONE Almighty God. The One and Only Creator.

One Savior, One Faith, One Truth.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are ONE."
 

MatthewG

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Hello you, Robert, and whoever else may be reading,

Desire to share this message:

Only know Jesus as the Lord God Almighty.

That is when the Father, and Son become one again after placing everything beneath the feet of Jesus and the Son gives everything back to the Father that so God is all and all.

I believe that Jesus is considered the Lord God Almighty after resurrection. Before this He was the Word of God: Logos of God ~ The Word came down was was encased in a body of flesh. Was named Jesus. Also Immanuel meaning God with us. So back then; the Word of God ~ Also the Holy Spirit of God was with-in the Word of God when baptism happened in the Jordan River.

I believe that Jesus was the body of the flesh that the Logos of God lived inside of. Also believe that the Logos of God, and God Himself are one together, to see Jesus in the Character of walking around on earth with his disciples; is to see God our Father from heaven because of the mind, will, and emotion of Christ. Even including with telling the truth, in love, even though He was very hard on the Pharisees because of them breaking the covenant of not loving God, and others.

So this is it for me, how it is understood without using any scripture to justify my view. Though many may not understand my view; doesn't mean my way might be right for you. (It is possible for me to be wrong).

You talk to God and pray and ask him to help show you.

Thank you for reading and taking time too,
With love in Christ,
Matthew G.
 
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Abaxvahl

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

For the second verse see this quote from St. Hilary:

"When Christ taught us that no one knows the day on which the end of time will come, not the angels and not even himself, he removed from us any need to be concerned about its date. O immeasurable mercy of divine goodness! Since the Son said, “All things have been delivered to me by my Father,” we know that the Father did not deny him the knowledge of this day. If anything was denied him, he could not have said that all things were delivered to him. But because the Son has handed on to us everything the Father gave him and the Word of God does not contain in himself as much assurance of the future as of things already accomplished, therefore it was established by God that the date of the end should be indefinite. Thus he could allow us an abundant amount of time for repentance yet still keep us solicitous for fear of the uncertain and so as to avoid giving anyone the idea of a particular day by expressing his will. For just as at the time of the flood, in the normal course of our life, in our activities and in our sufferings, that great day will suddenly appear."

The date is not chronological and is indefinite but is rather based on the spiritual state of mankind.

For the first verse it is either of Christ as man or due to the ambition of the Apostles.
 

Grailhunter

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God the Father, Yahweh
God the Son, Yeshua
The God called the Holy Spirit. unnamed.
The one God formula skews the meaning of several scriptures.
Separate minds
Separate wills
Separate thrones
Separate authorities
Separate places
Christ says My Father which is in heaven or just My Father at least 27 time in the Gospels.
God the Father sent God the Son.
God the Father's gives to God the Son.
God the Son does not give authority to God the Father.
God the Son ascended to the God the Father.
The Father is greater than I...said God the Son.
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Cried God the Son to God the Father.
God the Son prayed to God the Father.
God the Son asked God the Father questions.
Father....and....Son....Hello!

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me."
Even in heaven they are two Gods...Mark 16:19 "After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God."

There are dozens of these type of scriptures. Read them for yourself.
Grailhunter’s Corner
 

Ronald Nolette

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

You are confusing the person of God (the Father) and the fact that Jesus in essence is equally divine as His Father! He is not THE God which is the Father, but He is God- just as divine as His Father in nature though subordinate to him iin authority.
 

amadeus

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't.
But what then is God? Do people in their hearts agree on a single definition that fits and satisfies everyone without doubt?

Is God without beginning and without end? Does the follow verse refer to God?

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:13

And then consider these things with regard to God:

Omnipotent [all powerful]:
“I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee” Job 42:2

“God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.” Psalm 62:11

“Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.” Psalm 147:5

“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

Omniscient [all knowing]:
“Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?” Job 31:4

“For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings.

There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.” Job 34:21-22

“O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.

Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” Psalm 139:1-6

“Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” Heb 4:13

‘For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.’ I John 3:20”

“I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.” Job 42:2


Omnipresent [present everywhere]:
“The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.” Prov 15:3

“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.” Psalm 139:7-10

“Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.” Jerem 23:24
 
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amadeus

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@Robert Gwin
Robert Gwin wrote:

So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared
Not a lie if each man effectively judges himself as he applies, or fails to apply, what God has spoken... [that is, the Word of God]!

When did God speak all of His Word applicable to men?

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?
Indeed, if 100% God as commonly stated, how could Jesus not know what the Father knew? Does God change? Does God learn? So then split Jesus into two parts or consider that Jesus was not God as his Father was God. Hmmm? Consider this! Must we know the answer definitely?
 

BarneyFife

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While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come. It is only after He has ascended that He can then, again, reunite with the Father and know all things to come.
So is He not in the form of flesh now?
 
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BarneyFife

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Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?
Did He lie in these verses?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:58)

I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)


Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:9)

Was Isaiah lying in this verse?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)

Are these questions worth asking, in light of the OP?

:)
 

GEN2REV

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GEN2REV said:
While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come. It is only after He has ascended that He can then, again, reunite with the Father and know all things to come
So is He not in the form of flesh now?
This is admittedly a concept that is hard to fully understand from our human awareness. I struggle with it as well. In the statement of mine you quoted, I was referring to when He was physically alive on the earth in corruptible flesh.

I believe Him to be in a body now as we recognize as human, but incorruptible. Thomas was able to touch Him and feel His wounds, but he is not in a body of the type of flesh we are in now, a body that is corruptible (susceptible to sin and death).

When He ascended to heaven into the clouds, I believe it was at that time that He was reunited with the Father completely. Just before He ascends, He looks to heaven and speaks these words.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self (reunite Me with You) with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was (just as We were united before Creation)."
John 17:5
"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God."
John 1:1

That's why when He returns, it is Him, alone, doing all the works, and delivering the Wrath, of the Father; while wearing a title of KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:16

How can Jesus be His own Father? How can He be Jesus and Almighty God?

"I am the Alpha (A) and the Omega (Z), the beginning and the ending, saith The Lord, which is (Jesus the living God) and which was (the God [the Father] of the Old Testament), and which is to come (the conquering KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS), the Almighty."
Revelation 1:8

"I am Alpha (Father) and Omega (Son), the beginning (Source) and the end (Product of Source), the First and the Last."
Revelation 22:13
 

BarneyFife

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This is admittedly a concept that is hard to fully understand from our human awareness. I struggle with it as well. In the statement of mine you quoted, I was referring to when He was physically alive on the earth in corruptible flesh.

I believe Him to be in a body now as we recognize as human, but incorruptible. Thomas was able to touch Him and feel His wounds, but he is not in a body of the type of flesh we are in now, a body that is corruptible (susceptible to sin and death).

When He ascended to heaven into the clouds, I believe it was at that time that He was reunited with the Father completely. Just before He ascends, He looks to heaven and speaks these words.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self (reunite Me with You) with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was (just as We were united before Creation)."
John 17:5
"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God."
John 1:1

That's why when He returns, it is Him, alone, doing all the works, and delivering the Wrath, of the Father; while wearing a title of KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:16

How can Jesus be His own Father? How can He be Jesus and Almighty God?

"I am the Alpha (A) and the Omega (Z), the beginning and the ending, saith The Lord, which is (Jesus the living God) and which was (the God [the Father] of the Old Testament), and which is to come (the conquering KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS), the Almighty."
Revelation 1:8

"I am Alpha (Father) and Omega (Son), the beginning (Source) and the end (Product of Source), the First and the Last."
Revelation 22:13
I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly. I don't care to go down the Christology rabbit hole. lol
 
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GEN2REV

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I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly. I don't care to go down the Christology rabbit hole. lol
Trust me, I often have to make sure I understand these things correctly. I struggle to conceive of them and find myself having to revisit the information often to make sure I haven't misunderstood.

I truly only want to be right with God and His Word. If I am wrong on any of it, I pray for correction.

This is the best that I can make of all the scripture on the subject.

God bless us all in our learning and understanding.
 
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Robert Gwin

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First, you might specify by asking 'Is Jesus God the Father?' Trinitarians will simply say that Jesus is God because the Father, Son and HG are ALL God.

While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come. It is only after He has ascended that He can then, again, reunite with the Father and know all things to come.

Remember that God the Father remained outside of time and thus was capable of being two places at once. A difficult concept for us to fathom. The Father was outside of physical time and space before, during and after indwelling the physical body of Christ. He is who Christ prayed to as an example to us of how to live righteously in God's Way.

The Matthew 10:40 verse shows Jesus referring to it as HIS right hand. In many other verses, Jesus is referred to AS God's right hand. The verse also strongly implies Him, Jesus, seated on THE throne.

When John sees his vision in Revelation, he sees only ONE in heaven upon the throne.
" ... behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne." Revelation 4:2
What happened to Jesus? Is He no longer significant? On the mighty contrary.

Who sits on a throne? A king - not a prince.
If Jesus (the prince/the Son) has become the king, where has the Father gone?

Is it called the Wrath of Jesus, or the Wrath of God? Then why do we see Jesus delivering this Wrath?
"And I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (the Father is often referred to in scripture as being Faithful to all His promises and Jesus is the Truth), and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. ... and His name is called the Word of God.(Jesus per John 1:1, 14)"
Revelation 19:11,13
"And (all) the armies which were in heaven followed Him (Jesus is the Lord of Hosts [angel armies]) ... and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and Wrath of Almighty God (the Father). And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (the Father/Jesus)
Revelation 19:14-16

There are countless other verses all throughout the Bible that use the same descriptions for the Father as for Jesus, and the same duties and actions for both, etc.

Another contrast of note is that many pagan religions over the millennia have held and worshiped multiple deities as their gods. Christianity is all about ONE Almighty God. The One and Only Creator.

One Savior, One Faith, One Truth.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are ONE."

I think you meant the Matthew 4:10 verse sir, Jesus said it was written, where was it written Gen?
 

Robert Gwin

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For the second verse see this quote from St. Hilary:

"When Christ taught us that no one knows the day on which the end of time will come, not the angels and not even himself, he removed from us any need to be concerned about its date. O immeasurable mercy of divine goodness! Since the Son said, “All things have been delivered to me by my Father,” we know that the Father did not deny him the knowledge of this day. If anything was denied him, he could not have said that all things were delivered to him. But because the Son has handed on to us everything the Father gave him and the Word of God does not contain in himself as much assurance of the future as of things already accomplished, therefore it was established by God that the date of the end should be indefinite. Thus he could allow us an abundant amount of time for repentance yet still keep us solicitous for fear of the uncertain and so as to avoid giving anyone the idea of a particular day by expressing his will. For just as at the time of the flood, in the normal course of our life, in our activities and in our sufferings, that great day will suddenly appear."

The date is not chronological and is indefinite but is rather based on the spiritual state of mankind.

For the first verse it is either of Christ as man or due to the ambition of the Apostles.

Good answer sir, although I believe that Jesus actually did not know the day or hour at that time, I do agree with you that the message was not to be worried about it. I hadn't really contemplated that prior, thanks much for your input.
 
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