I have a question that remains unanswered:

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GerhardEbersoehn

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Jesus in everything He did was always willingly doing the will of his Father, including and especially when He said He, God's Son the Son of Man does not know the hour of his - own - coming again. He obeyed and performed the Will of the eternally DECIDED Council of GOD IN FULL FELLOWSHIP OF FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.

I am in no position to question God's omniscience, omnipotence or omnipresence - God forbid
 

Aunty Jane

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To be expected. For those who truly believe, no amount of evidence is needed. For those who do not, no amount of evidence is ever enough.
And for those who are under a delusion, no amount of truth will penetrate. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
You have to love the truth….but what is the truth?

What has created your mindset? Who taught you what to believe? How do you know that what you believe is the truth? Are any of us out of the reach of satan’s ability to deceive? Our flawed condition makes us vulnerable, so we have to be careful that we are not victims. Does someone who is deceived, know that they are? None of us can be complacent.

Experts like yourself who are always claiming special knowledge that cannot be found in scripture itself, twisting, contorting and wrestling what actually IS contained therein and complicating to infinity all of the simple, and most amazing, Truths of God in His Word.
I never claimed special knowledge…..Christendom has that claim. I just go by what the scriptures plainly teach and what kind of people the truth produces. How can you tell a genuine Christian?
No 1…Jesus said that his disciples would be “no part of this world”…no part of its corrupt politics…its greedy commercialism…..or its blood spilling religions. We should use that as our first measuring line. Others would fall into place.

"And now unto Him who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Jude 23-24

Jesus is undebatably God.

It is futile to rage against the Almighty Truth. You don't stand a chance.
Again…..be careful. Are you misinterpreting scripture again…?

It says in context…”keep yourselves in the love of God, looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. And have mercy on some, who are doubting; . . . .Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory, blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority before all time and now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 1:21-22,24-25 -NASB)
I do not believe that this is saying that Jesus is our God and Savior……read it again.

This passage clearly separates Jesus and his Father. God is our Savior “through Jesus Christ”. This isn’t saying what you want it to say……it is Jesus who was “sent” by his Father to give his life for us. The one who sent the savior is also a savior. Our God and Savior is Jehovah who saves us “through Jesus”, not because Jesus is God.
 

Aunty Jane

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In Revelation Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega....the Almighty
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
— Revelation 1:8 (KJV)
That is Jesus outright admitting He is the Almighty God...the Alpha and Omega...the beginning...(can't get any sooner than the beginning of all things) and the end...(can't get any farther than the end of all things)
OK let's have a look at it....
We know that the title "Alpha and Omega" is simply the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet, so who alone can be "the beginning and end" of all things? Does it only apply to God...or can it apply to Jesus?

Revelation 1:18....The Lord God says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty!’” (The New American Bible) Clearly, the reference here is to the Most High God. There is only one "Lord God" "Almighty" and that is Jehovah.

In context, the Revelation was given to John via a chain of command......from God to Jesus, through an angel to John. We should therefore expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account.

The first reference to “the Alpha and the Omega” is an example of this, referring to Almighty God (the Father). But in the very next verse, the apostle John, says: “I . . . came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.” (Revelation 1:9) John makes a distinction between God and Jesus here. Both of whom are in heaven.
The apostles knew the difference between Christ and his Father....never did they see Jesus as having any equality with God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6..
"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."

We know also that God will display his power at that time when his Son is authorized to destroy all opposers of his Father's sovereignty.
Here is another interesting scripture from Paul.....

Hebrews 2:10-12
"For it was fitting for Him, [God] for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the originator of their salvation [Jesus] through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for this reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters, 12 saying,

I will proclaim Your name to My brothers,
In the midst of the assembly I will sing Your praise.”

Why is this significant? Because God calls them "sons", but Jesus addresses them as "brothers". Its a completely different relationship.
Another thing Paul mentions is that God 'perfects the Originator of their salvation through suffering'....if Jesus was God why would God need to perfect him through suffering?

The next occurrence of the title “the Alpha and the Omega” is found at Revelation 21:6...
"Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give water to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life, without cost."

Yet again in the following verse, the One who applies this title to himself says: “The one who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.” Since Jesus Christ speaks of himself as a “brother” of these conquerors, they are "sons" of the Father who is referring to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega.”

What about the last one Revelation 22:12-13...

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to reward each one as his work deserves. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Along with the reward for the conquerors, comes the condemnation of judgment for the opposers....."on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus." (Romans 2:16)

So, as far as my studies go, in all three instances, the "Alpha and the Omega" is God Almighty...not Jesus.

I believe that it helps to understand that, at the time these scriptures were penned, there was no trinity....so they were not written to support or deny a doctrine that did not even exist.
 

Aunty Jane

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Yes. And if anyone is in doubt that the Holy Spirit is God......

"3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”" Acts 5:3-4
Context.....what has just happened here? An·a·niʹas, together with his wife Sap·phiʹra, had agreed to sell a field but held back some of the money for themselves whilst claiming to have donated the whole amount. How did Peter know that this couple had lied? The apostles were anointed with God's Spirit and so, like Jesus, were aware of people's thoughts and motives. So when this couple lied to Peter, they could not lie to the Holy Spirit in him. That is tantamount to lying to God. The Holy Spirit is not God but is used by him to empower others and to accomplish his will.

Sorry Ferris...time for another day off.....
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Aunty Jane

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Son of Man is a Jewish title that means He is the Messiah- the Son of God.
That is not what I have learned from my studies of the scriptures.....In the Hebrew writings the most frequent occurrence of the expression is in the book of Ezekiel, where over 90 times God addresses the prophet as “son of man.” (Ezekiel 2:1,3,6,8) The designation apparently serves to emphasize that the prophet is simply an earthling, highlighting the contrast between the human spokesman and the Source of his message, the Most High God.

The same designation is applied to the prophet Daniel at Daniel 8:17. A son of man is simply that.

In the Gospel accounts the expression is found nearly 80 times, applying in every case to Jesus Christ, being used by him to refer to himself. (Matthew 8:20; 9:6; 10:23)

This expression showed that God’s Son was now indeed 100% mortal human, having ‘become flesh’ (John 1:14), having ‘come to be out of a woman’ through his conception and birth to the Jewish virgin Mary. (Galatians 4:4; Luke 1:34-36)
Jesus had not simply materialized a human body as angels had previously done when carrying out their earthly missions; he was not an incarnation, but was actually a ‘son of mankind’ through his human mother. He had to be a genuine sinless human, not a sinful son of Adam, in order to redeem mankind.
 

Heart2Soul

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OK let's have a look at it....
We know that the title "Alpha and Omega" is simply the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet, so who alone can be "the beginning and end" of all things? Does it only apply to God...or can it apply to Jesus
This is a trick question...lol. Jesus is God in the flesh.
 

Aunty Jane

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This is a trick question...lol. Jesus is God in the flesh.
Trick question?
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Jesus is the "Son of God" in the flesh....there is no scripture that says Jesus is God incarnated.
Please show me where Jesus ever said that?
 

Stumpmaster

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Trick question?
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Jesus is the "Son of God" in the flesh....there is no scripture that says Jesus is God incarnated.
Please show me where Jesus ever said that?
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
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Aunty Jane

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John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Ummmm yep. that is what the Bible says....it just doesn't say that he is, or was God Almighty, before during or after his earthly mission..
 

Taken

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Ummmm yep. that is what the Bible says....it just doesn't say that he is, or was God Almighty, before during or after his earthly mission..



Heb 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
One of the most glorifying definitions of Jesus' Divineness.
Another Scripture is Jesus did not regard it robbery to be equal with God yet He lowered Himself so low as to become a man -- THAT'S true GOD-LIKE-NESS, really our real GOD!

What the devil do people take pleasure in denying Jesus' Deity, his EQUITY WITH FATHER AND HOLY SPIRIT? Do they think it will help to save them?
 
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Aunty Jane

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You're just ignorant of Scripture, and too cocky for its wisdom.
So in three consecutive posts you said absolutely nothing in response to anything I said.....what was the point of that? o_O

If we are in a Bible study forum...where is your scripture man?!
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Stumpmaster

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Ummmm yep. that is what the Bible says....it just doesn't say that he is, or was God Almighty, before during or after his earthly mission..
Some things are obvious in Scripture:

Mat 1:23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which is translated, "God with us."

Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."
Joh 17:20-23 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; (21) that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (22) And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: (23) I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

2Co 5:18-19 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, (19) that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Col 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (16) For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (17) And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (18) And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (19) For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, (20) and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Col 2:8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (9) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (10) and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Heb 1:1-4 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; (3) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, (4) having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
 

Taken

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Gods Word...
Where does it come from?

Isaiah 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 
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