I have a question that remains unanswered:

[Addy]

I aim to please. Did you see my selfie above?

HAHAAHA @Did you see my selfie above... HAHAHAHA... OH my goodness.. you crack me up...

I think they should pay members to hijack threads with humour.... Anyways... my apologies... it's Barny's fault.

 

[BarneyFife]

Trick question?

Jesus is the "Son of God" in the flesh....there is no scripture that says Jesus is God incarnated.
Please show me where Jesus ever said that?

Moving the goalposts? Jesus has to say it now? Maybe He's modest and meek.

 

[amadeus]

Like you stated sir, the King James Version, not ours. May I ask why your translators translated theos as a god at Acts 28:6 but as God in Jn 1:1? Do you think that was deliberate sir? I do!

There may always be trouble with translators, but never with God's interpretation! A man can read any translation of the Bible and still not understand what he reads.

Consider this:

"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." Acts 8:30-31

Of course it could not be just any man, but rather a man like Philip led by the Spirit of God and given the Interpretation to share with the Ethiopian!

God is no respecter of persons. What He did for that man He will also do for people today without regard for poor translators. I worked for years as a translator, so I have some experience with the difficulties sometimes encountered. When necessary I would go to other experienced people for help.

When it comes to the written scriptures, God is always available to the hungry and thirsty heart!
God's Word is always available to a heart hungry and thirsty for His righteousness. [See Matt 5:6]

 

[BarneyFife]

There may always be trouble with translators, but never with God's interpretation! A man can read any translation of the Bible and still not understand what he reads.

Consider this:

"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." Acts 8:30-31

Of course it could not be just any man, but rather a man like Philip led by the Spirit of God and given the Interpretation to share with the Ethiopian!

God is no respecter of persons. What He did for that man He will also do for people today without regard for poor translators. I worked for years as a translator, so I have some experience with the difficulties sometimes encountered. When necessary I would go to other experienced people for help.

When it comes to the written scriptures, God is always available to the hungry and thirsty heart!
God's Word is always available to a heart hungry and thirsty for His righteousness. [See Matt 5:6]

No undue flattery intended, John, but I just gotta say this is great stuff! :);):cool:

 

[BarneyFife]

Deuteronomy 4:29 Parallel: But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

 

[Curtis]

Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

It’s called the trinity. Jesus is God but is not the Father, however, being God the Son, He’s of the same nature and substance as the Father, and said that if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the father.

Isaiah said He is the mighty God, the everlasting father, so it’s inescapable that Jesus is God.

Who is Jesus?


Jesus is the Son born of a virgin, who is Immanuel - meaning God with us (Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23) who is the mighty God and everlasting Father. (Isaiah 9:6)


He is co-creator of the world, and of everything that was made in the beginning in Genesis 1.

(John 1:1,10,14 and Colossians 1:16-17)


To leave heaven and come to earth as a man, He voluntarily left the form of God that He had by His nature, and emptied Himself, setting aside all use of His divine power, and took the form of a humble servant. (Philippians 2:6-7)


Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Php 2:7 but EMPTIED himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.


After He left Gods form to take mans form, Yahweh became the Father of Jesus when He made a body for Him to be born in.

(Hebrews 10:5)


Mary is the woman chosen by God to birth the body Yahweh made for God the word.


Since He had set aside all use of His divine power to take the form of a man (Philippians 2:6-7) Jesus didn’t start His ministry of healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons, until He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism. (Matthew 3:17)


He thereafter did His miracles by the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, that Father Yahweh anointed Him with. (Acts 10:38)


As a humble servant and man on earth, the Father was greater in status than He, (John 14:28)— yet Jesus Is equal in nature to the Father, so He and the Father are one, (John 10:30) and He who has seen Him has seen the Father (John 14:9).


His purpose for coming to earth as a man, was to give His life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45)


He died physically on a cross, the sinless one for sinners, and took our place.


While His physical body was in a tomb on the surface of the earth, His spirit descended into the heart of the earth, where He preached to the spirits in prison. (1 Peter 3:19 and Ephesians 4:9-10)


These spirits were the Old Testament righteous dead, who were held in a holding chamber in hades, because no soul could ascend to heaven until Messiah came and atoned for their sins.


This chamber was called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, which is where the thief on the cross went. (Luke 16:22-26)


When He rose, he emptied out paradise, which is why many saints also arose and went into the city after His resurrection. (Matthew 27 53)


His resurrection was bodily, and He appeared for 40 days to His followers before He ascended visibly and bodily to heaven on a cloud from Mount Olive (Acts 1:9-12) - and this same Jesus will return to mount Olive at His second coming, exactly the same as He left, and will bring all the saints from heaven, with Him. (Zechariah 14:5)


Now paradise is in heaven, and souls of the redeemed go straight to heaven, and Jesus will bring those souls from heaven with Him at His second coming to receive their resurrected bodies. 1 Thessalonians 4:14

 

[amadeus]

No undue flattery intended, John, but I just gotta say this is great stuff! :);):cool:

Thanks my friend and brother! We serve a mighty God!

 

[Wrangler]

What does believing that the One God exists in the Trinity coerce?
Or do you mean it's a theology that coerces people to believe in it?

I thought this post explained that,

There is no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are all co-eternal, co-substantial and co-equal and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved but will go to hell.

I'm not sure how to parse your question. People like BarneyFife do not coerce. So, I am not attempting to make "ALL" type statements but he also side stepped my question about recognizing the coercive pattern in these forums and this very thread (unless he posted and I have not read it yet).

By comparison, I used OSAS. I believe you and I were on the same page in another thread. With that doctrine, there seems to be no coercive escalation. I'm not sure why trinitarians - who do coerce - feel the need to coerce.

I am a unitarian Christian. I believe in one God, the Father, as 1 Corinthians 8:6 says. There is only him and his first begotten son. God is Spirit and his Spirit is holy. Regarding the first begotten Son, God gave him all authority. I find it profound how Jesus taught us to pray; Our Father, who art in heaven. Not 'my' father. Not 'your father.' Also, another poster made a profound point about Jesus understanding the plight of mankind. He could not do that if he was dually not human.

Moreover, his world saving achievement is total surrender to God, meaning God's will unto death. Not much of an achievement, at all, if he is God - who never really fully died.

If others believe differently, I find no Scripture to support relying on threats and coercion. I believe threats are not in keeping with the Spirit of God.

Make a Blessed Day!

 

[Curtis]

While the Bible identifies God as the Father many, MANY times, never does it identify God, The Holy Spirit or God, the Son. This is the dead giveaway destroying trinitarianism.

I suggest you get a Bible with Isaiah in it:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And get one with Hebrews in it:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[Wrangler]

I suggest you get a Bible with Isaiah in it

Really? Isaiah is Jewish, who are monotheists. Stop trying to impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text.

 

[BarneyFife]

I suggest you get a Bible with Isaiah in it:

And get one with Hebrews in it:

Flies, honey, vinegar. :)

 

[Curtis]

Is God without beginning and without end? Does the follow verse refer to God?

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:13

Further down in Revelation 1, John hears a voice speaking that says He’s the alpha and omega, and he turns to see who, and it’s Jesus who spoke:

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

 

[Curtis]

Really? Isaiah is Jewish, who are monotheists. Stop trying to impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text.

That is a nonsensical statement.

Isaiah said the son given is the mighty god - you can’t spin that, no matter how you try.

You show you’ve made up your mind and scripture is irrelevant to your chosen dogma.

 

[theefaith]

Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

christ has two natures
Divine
Human

 

[theefaith]

Many people teach that Jesus is God, fact is he either is or isn't. So my question is, if Jesus is God then did he lie in these verses?:
Mr 10:40But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared

Mr 13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I do not believe Jesus lied, and likely you do not either, so how does one who believes Jesus is God, explain this?

Is Jesus the savior?

is Jesus eternal?

 

[BarneyFife]

People like BarneyFife do not coerce. So, I am not attempting to make "ALL" type statements but he also side stepped my question about recognizing the coercive pattern in these forums and this very thread (unless he posted and I have not read it yet).

Might I have an opportunity to redeem myself from side-stepping?

If others believe differently, I find no Scripture to support relying on threats and coercion.

Could you point to some of these threats or are they something you experienced outside of the threads that are currently ongoing with regard to this matter?

Really? Isaiah is Jewish, who are monotheists. Stop trying to impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text.

To be fair, Isaiah is known as the Gospel prophet and may have been looking for a divine Messiah.

(I know that this might suggest some kind of neo-dispensationalism, but I'm not at all sure we're not comparing oranges with apples when we try to use Old Testament prophets to defend unitarianism.)

 

[BarneyFife]

Isaiah said the son given is the mighty god - you can’t spin that, no matter how you try.

Prophets often do not understand what they are saying, seeing, or writing. :)

 

[Curtis]

The trinity is in the Old Testament, as admitted by Jewish rabbis in the Zohar.

The trinity is evident literally in the beginning in Genesis where ELOHIM, the plural name of God, which in the Hebrew translates literally as GODS, said let US make man in OUR image.

So the One God is manifest as three persons, and the Old Testament shows us the plurality of God from the very beginning, in the very first book of the Bible.

And the prophet Isaiah in the Old Testament said the son that is given to us is THE MIGHTY GOD, and is called GOD WITH US, Immanuel.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

It is a mistake to participate in the genetic fallacy that all Roman Catholicism is evil.

The best counterfeit is that which most closely resembles the genuine. :)

Clarification: That the system of the RCC is apostate there can be no doubt. But there are godly people and godly deeds all throughout their ranks.

 

[BarneyFife]

The trinity is in the Old Testament, as admitted by Jewish rabbis in the Zohar.

The trinity is evident literally in the beginning in Genesis where ELOHIM, the plural name of God, which in the Hebrew translates literally as GODS, said let US make man in OUR image.

So the One God is manifest as three persons, and the Old Testament shows us the plurality of God from the very beginning, in the very first book of the Bible.

The Old Testament only hints at the Godhead. Compared to the evidence in the New Testament, it is dwarfed. :)