Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[Tong2020]

Do you remember the last sentence of Romans 8:9? BB, until you are born again of the Spirit of Christ, you do not belong to him. If you are trying to get to heaven in your carnal nature, and using willpower to overcome sin, you'll fail and will always revert to sinning.

So how do you RECEIVE the Holy Spirit of Christ? Acts 2:38 REPENT.

This is what Jesus said.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (NET)

He is talking about a person’s being born of the Spirit. And this is what He said.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. (NET)

It is not of the will of man, but of God.

Tong
R4416

 

[Tong2020]

Found some interesting scripture today; that has to deal with the topic of good.


“And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don’t think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us. Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, so it is with Christ’s body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other. In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out with as much faith as God has given you. If your gift is serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, teach well. If your gift is to encourage others, be encouraging. If it is giving, give generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly. Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other. Never be lazy, but work hard and serve the Lord enthusiastically. Rejoice in our confident hope. Be patient in trouble, and keep on praying. When God’s people are in need, be ready to help them. Always be eager to practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you. Don’t curse them; pray that God will bless them. Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with each other. Don’t be too proud to enjoy the company of ordinary people. And don’t think you know it all! Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone. Dear friends, never take revenge. Leave that to the righteous anger of God. For the Scriptures say, “I will take revenge; I will pay them back,” says the Lord. Instead, “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals of shame on their heads.” Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Good find and read.

Wisdom: Conquer evil by doing good.

Tong
R4417

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
According to Paul, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

Paul did not talk about Abraham being justified in regard to being shown to be righteous, but rather in regard to being made righteous. That's the particular topic about Abraham that he is addressing. But we know he understands that he was justified by works, too, from the fact that he points out that the faith that makes one righteous also works obedience in that person (Galatians 5:6).

Paul:

1What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,(Rom.4)

What do you understand of v.2?

Faith is what God accounts for righteousness, is Paul’s point.

Tong2020 said: ↑
According to James, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

Yes. James is saying that Abraham was justified by works in that his works showed him to be righteous by what he did in obedience to God. That is different than Paul who says Abraham was justified by his faith in that it made him righteous before God.

Yes, that is different, as you here admit. So they are not saying the same thing.

So, with the rest of my questions:

According to Paul, what is accounted for righteousness?

According to James, what is accounted for righteousness?

Are they saying the same thing about justification? Are they speaking of the same justification? Are they making the same argument?

@1stCenturyLady

Tong
R4418

 

[MatthewG]

Good find and read.

Wisdom: Conquer evil by doing good.

Tong
R4417

Yes.

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG Romans is so doctrinal; that part of Romans is so practical...working out what is inwardly received about the truth of God in Christ...

Yes

 

[Tong2020]

and @Tong2020

Paul's teaching in Romans is about the law and grace and is 8 chapters long. Taking chapter 4 or 5 out of context is the cause of many false doctrines of demons. Abraham wasn't under the law, chapter 4; and God's grace is introduced in chapter 5, but not what it actually is. Chapter 8 is the complete conclusion to all 8 chapters. THE SPIRIT. Grace is the divine power of God favored to us.

Precisely, Abraham did not live under the Law. James referred to Abraham and Paul as well. They both speak about the work of Abraham and the faith of Abraham. So I asked:

According to Paul, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to James, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to Paul, what is accounted for righteousness?

According to James, what is accounted for righteousness?

Are they saying the same thing about justification? Are they speaking of the same justification? Are they making the same argument?

Tong
R4419

 

[MatthewG]

Faith will instate action and that action is love towards God and others I believe @Tong2020

 

[Tong2020]

Faith will instate action and that action is love towards God and others I believe @Tong2020

Faith is of the Spirit as is love. They are not actions or works, and are not of the flesh. Faith works and so does love. Also, faith and love are not the same.

Faith, which is invisible, is made visible in actions/works, as is love. One could have works of faith without love, and one could have works of faith with love. Though I must say that in the work of the Christian, it ought to have both.

Tong
R4419

 

[MatthewG]

@Tong2020 could we say that love are the works of faith?

Remember in James when James explains how ; if you have someone come to you and they are in need of food and drink or clothing and you turn them away that not showing love. So the faith the person is having is dead.

Or if you have a persons come into your banquet and you see a rich person and you treat him more special than the poor person, which is showing favoritism and not love for ones neighbor which doesn’t matter if one is rich or poor?

If you show favoritism to one and look down on the other is that Faith really working if it is not producing love for others?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Quick! Let’s inform Jesus! He told a tale about a wicked, Sinful Publican , and all “ this” guy had to do was TURN TO GOD ( the REAL Repentance That Saves) and merely cry out, “ Lord, have Mercy on me, Sinner !” Jesus said that this man went home “JUSTIFIED” .....Perhaps He should have discussed this with you.....you know more about “ Justification” than Jesus did, after all.....There is no record of the Publican “Showing” anything to Prove His Justification....all he did was “ go home” .....is that how we prove we are Saved.......” The Righteous shall live by Going Home! “

Jesus also healed the paralytic that was lowered through the roof of a house to get to see Jesus...Jesus said that because of his FAITH ( nothing else was mentioned) his Sins were “ Forgiven”..... No “show me something now......no “sin no more” .....just “Because Of your Faith , your sins are forgiven...”

How do you account for these true facts?

The imputation of God's righteousness through the forgiveness of sins is entirely by faith, apart from works. A person is justified (MADE righteous) by faith. That is Paul's argument. But the person who has been justified by faith will ALSO be justified (SHOWN to be righteous) by their works. That is James' additional argument to this matter of justification (James 2:24). If you aren't justified by, both, faith and works, you haven't been justified by faith. Your fruit-less, unrighteous life shows it. Just as your fruitful, righteous life shows you have.

Here are Biblical examples of how the person who has been justified by faith is also justified by what they do, their works being the result of having been justified by faith. Their righteous actions justify them as having received the righteousness of God by faith:

"Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, half of my possessions I give to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will repay it fourfold.” Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house..." Luke 19:8-9

“...she wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not greet Me with a kiss, but she has not stopped kissing My feet since I arrived. You did not anoint My head with oil, but she has anointed My feet with perfume. Therefore I tell you, because her many sins have been forgiven, she has loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”" Luke 7:44-47 ​

In a genuine salvation experience a person is justified by, both, faith and works. Their faith makes them righteous. Their works show them to be righteous. And so it is in that way that "a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24.

 

[Tong2020]

@Tong2020 could we say that love are the works of faith?

Remember in James when James explains how ; if you have someone come to you and they are in need of food and drink or clothing and you turn them away that not showing love. So the faith the person is having is dead.

Or if you have a persons come into your banquet and you see a rich person and you treat him more special than the poor person, which is showing favoritism and not love for ones neighbor which doesn’t matter if one is rich or poor?

If you show favoritism to one and look down on the other is that Faith really working if it is not producing love for others?

<<<could we say that love are the works of faith?>>>

As I said in my post, faith and love are not the same, and they are not actions/works in and of themselves.

With that, my answer to your question is a No.

Tong
R4423

 

[MatthewG]

@Ferris Bueller agreed.

Okay @Tong2020. We will have to disagree then thank you for considering.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Do you remember the last sentence of Romans 8:9? BB, until you are born again of the Spirit of Christ, you do not belong to him. If you are trying to get to heaven in your carnal nature, and using willpower to overcome sin, you'll fail and will always revert to sinning.

So how do you RECEIVE the Holy Spirit of Christ? Acts 2:38 REPENT.

There’s a quicker , easier way—- ASK ! “All That Ask Shall Receive”.......and we’re not talking about asking for a new car....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

. If you are trying to get to heaven in your carnal nature, and using willpower to overcome sin, you'll fail and will always revert to sinning.


You are “ preaching to the choir”.....Paul Warned about “ Will Worship” , and I have been the only one here to point this out, to my knowledge .....where have you been?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is what Jesus said.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (NET)

He is talking about a person’s being born of the Spirit. And this is what He said.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. (NET)

It is not of the will of man, but of God.

Tong
R4416

Are you saying that we don't have to repent first? That is sort of Calvinistic.

 

[MatthewG]

When it comes to being a Christian.

From what has been taught in the scripture you cannot have faith without love.

Remember God is faithful even if we are not.

Jesus said the works of God was to believe on the one whom God had sent. Jesus performed all the works of the law out of love for his father.

Fulfilling the law; If you today have faith Jesus fulfills that old covenant law and makes you right with God because of what Jesus done.

Now you as a believer are doing the works of God by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who’s commandments were to love God and to Love others.

Faith without love is dead. If you have no love in the first place how can you love God?

As a Christian you can’t have faith without love; because the Holy Spirit/ and the spirit of Christ in you from God will cause you to have love. It won’t cause you to hate, or not have love.

You men and women know this or should at least.


“But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-23‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Precisely, Abraham did not live under the Law. James referred to Abraham and Paul as well. They both speak about the work of Abraham and the faith of Abraham. So I asked:

According to Paul, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to James, concerning Abraham, was Abraham justified by works?

According to Paul, what is accounted for righteousness?

According to James, what is accounted for righteousness?

Are they saying the same thing about justification? Are they speaking of the same justification? Are they making the same argument?

Tong
R4419

He obeyed because He had faith in God. His faith was not dead.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There’s a quicker , easier way—- ASK ! “All That Ask Shall Receive”.......and we’re not talking about asking for a new car....

You must also repent; so repent and ask.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

43


BB, you don't know me, so you must be speaking from your own experience.

You are correct.....I do not know you. However I * DO* know your Demonic Doctrine Of “ Sinless Perfection”.....You are not the first Delusional one to try to promote this Hog Wash...... so silly it should never have to be commented on....there are Newbies here however that might fall for your Bunk....I just try to warn them about False, Perverted “ Gospels” .....it’s the least I can do.....Smart people “ get it”.You ? You never will...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You are believing the opposite of what Jesus came to do. See the post on Doctrines of Demons.

I think I’ll pass on that kind offer....life’s too short.....